Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: AZRedhawk44 on May 23, 2011, 11:16:44 AM
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http://www.koat.com/r-video/27979990/detail.html
Intolerable. Absolutely intolerable.
If I had kids and they were going to be subject to this... I'd throw a counter-prom, better than the High School's prom. With no security beyond traditional chaperones.
Young people on the verge of adulthood need to be educated on the proper way to be treated when attending a celebratory event. It is not proper to be pat-down and magnetometer-searched, to surrender your personal property on a broad-spectrum search for "something, just in case," and to be dictated to by the whims of the State just to be allowed to freely assemble.
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What. The. *expletive deleted*ck.?
This *expletive deleted*it is *expletive deleted*ing ridiculous. This mentality of we need searches, patdowns, nudie-scoping, etc in all parts of life needs to be flushed, along with the people who come up with it.
We are rapidly approaching a full blown police state that is so far reaching...
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"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward."
— Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn
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What is really disgusting to me is that lots of kids this age are ok with it. They have gone through all their school years with metal detectors, locker searches, clear backpacks, and busybody teachers and parents. It concerns me how many kids feel this is perfectly normal, as they will soon be voting.
This kind of stuff fells like a long term "boil the frog" strategy.
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why do you think they are ok with it? what underlying reason?
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why do you think they are ok with it? what underlying reason?
Because they have been acculturated to accept it ever since their first day of school. It is presented as "normal" from the very beginning.
That, along with the apathy of many parents.
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does the possibility that some like knowing that their fellow students are less likely to be packing heat cross your mind? or that in some schools the students find thats comforting and that it enhances their learning experience. what type of school system did you grow up in? mine was pg county md and it was long enough ago that only a few folks carried in school and a few more in their cars. nowadays that demographic has shifted
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does the possibility that some like knowing that their fellow students are less likely to be packing heat cross your mind? or that in some schools the students find thats comforting and that it enhances their learning experience. what type of school system did you grow up in? mine was pg county md and it was long enough ago that only a few folks carried in school and a few more in their cars. nowadays that demographic has shifted
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Applys to kids too. In fact you'd think that would have been covered in high school US History class.......Oh wait, nevermind.
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what type of school system did you grow up in? mine was pg county md and it was long enough ago that only a few folks carried in school and a few more in their cars. nowadays that demographic has shifted
I'm missing your point here. ???
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they lose the "liberty" to make choices about their own environment? appoint you or someone else to make those decisions for em?
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I'm missing your point here. ???
in some areas without metal detectors a fair number of kids would be too afraid to come to school. it levels the playing field a bit.
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they lose the "liberty" to make choices about their own environment? appoint you or someone else to make those decisions for em?
The "liberty" to subject other citizens to pat-downs and invasive searches? They didn't lose that, they didn't have it to begin with. I don't give a damn how scared they "feel". The fact that they have managed to push through immoral crap in the name of "practicality" [spit] doesn't make it OK.
If kids are too scared to go to school without invasive searches, then the answer is to clean up their 'hood first. I've been to area's of which you speak, and the same kids that are "afraid" embrace wholeheartedly the culture that makes the mini war zones they live in. hang the gang leaders and drug dealers from the lampposts and that *expletive deleted*it will slow down.
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The "liberty" to subject other citizens to pat-downs and invasive searches? They didn't lose that, they didn't have it to begin with. I don't give a damn how scared they "feel". The fact that they have managed to push through immoral crap in the name of "practicality" [spit] doesn't make it OK.
If kids are too scared to go to school without invasive searches, then the answer is to clean up their 'hood first. I've been to area's of which you speak, and the same kids that are "afraid" embrace wholeheartedly the culture that makes the mini war zones they live in. hang the gang leaders and drug dealers from the lampposts and that *expletive deleted* will slow down.
This. If your public school requires metal detectors to somewhat keep the thugabees in line, then I'm willing to bet that not much learning at all goes on inside once past said metal detectors and bag searches, because it's a *expletive deleted*ing zoo with the thugabees running the joint.
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does the possibility that some like knowing that their fellow students are less likely to be packing heat cross your mind? or that in some schools the students find thats comforting and that it enhances their learning experience. what type of school system did you grow up in? mine was pg county md and it was long enough ago that only a few folks carried in school and a few more in their cars. nowadays that demographic has shifted
Is there any specific reason why you would not apply this rationale to other areas of life?
How would you feel about metal detectors at, say, the entrances of public colleges? After all, no doubt (some of) the staff there would like knowing that their fellow students are less likely to be 'packing heat'?
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Is there any specific reason why you would not apply this rationale to other areas of life?
How would you feel about metal detectors at, say, the entrances of public colleges? After all, no doubt (some of) the staff there would like knowing that their fellow students are less likely to be 'packing heat'?
It would not apply if Joe Arpaio was running things. His is the only law enforcement office capable of corruption.
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It would not apply if Joe Arpaio was running things. His is the only law enforcement office capable of corruption.
:laugh:
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It would not apply if Joe Arpaio was running things. His is the only law enforcement office capable of corruption.
You gonna start a thread on that!? Wait, never mind.
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It's effing ridiculous. When I was in high school (I'm 41) we did all manner of crazy *expletive deleted*it, in and out of school. There was a liquor store where you knocked on the back door and paid double and you could buy anything you wanted.
This is normal stuff teenagers do. You whoop their ass. Most of them grow up okay.
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nowadays we 8 year olds bring guns to school. the times have changed
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It's effing ridiculous. When I was in high school (I'm 41) we did all manner of crazy *expletive deleted*, in and out of school. There was a liquor store where you knocked on the back door and paid double and you could buy anything you wanted.
This is normal stuff teenagers do. You whoop their ass. Most of them grow up okay.
42. We must have gone to the same school. For a nice tip the Domino's driver would buy us as much beer as we wanted. They'll never stop it, short of parents whooping ass, just like you said.
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Last I heard on this, the state is gonna quash it.
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how?
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how?
Hang on, I'll see if I can find the link...
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State judicial quashed it as a violation of state law. Still looking for the link.
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Oops, wrong. Sorry. Fed. judge ok'd state police pat-downs instead of TSA. Still BS.
http://www.koat.com/news/27984342/detail.html
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i thought it was a judge who made em get tsa to supervise the private company and the state boys filled in because they couldn't get tsa
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Trying to put myself in my daughter's position here. The prom discussed is not too far (60 miles) from us.
Pat-downs are excessive in this case. I have no problem with wanding/metal detectors. I would feel comfortable with that degree of security.
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Trying to put myself in my daughter's position here. The prom discussed is not too far (60 miles) from us.
Pat-downs are excessive in this case. I have no problem with wanding/metal detectors. I would feel comfortable with that degree of security.
I would not.
If a party is so dangerous as to require metal detectors you should really consider weather you want your children to attend.
If it's not, why teach them to accept security theater, or uneeded searches.
Never go to clubs with metal detectors. Sure it feels safe inside. But what about all those [people] waiting outside with guns? They know you ain't got one.
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nowadays we 8 year olds bring guns to school. the times have changed
So how common is this 'eight year olds carrying a gat' stuff? Statistics, please!
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I predict a rise in "private" proms . . . that's happened in a few cases already (for different reasons) and has drawn the ire of administrators, but they're actually quite helpless when it comes to exerting control of off-campus parties sanctioned by parents outside of school hours.
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Even if guns aren't allowed, there's always a chance of a fistfight, which could lead to a challenge to a duel with swords.
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Even if guns aren't allowed, there's always a chance of a fistfight, which could lead to a challenge to a duel with swords.
I'd call that a mighty fine shindig or the finest party I can imagine getting paid to go to.
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There's some kind of cheese sauce, too =)
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Better go interrogate that buffet.
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Only on APS... :lol:
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So how common is this 'eight year olds carrying a gat' stuff? Statistics, please!
not sure i can help you there.
good luck in your quest though
this is all i found so far
http://www.wdtn.com/dpp/news/local/montgomery/Kids-bringing-weapons-to-school
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not sure i can help you there.
good luck in your quest though
Hang on... You are the one who made the positive assertion that times have changed, as evidenced by 8 year olds carrying guns to school.
Someone calls for you to back up your claim with quantitative data, and you tell them good luck in researching it? =|
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Here's what Google brought home:
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/virginia-statistics.html
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fyouthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu%2Fviolence-in-schools%2Fimages%2F2008-9virginia-school-discipline-violations.gif&hash=a3f9f538df8ad357bdcc5bb2bcc845f7595eafbf)
"There are far more look-alike guns (toys) than real guns. Moreover, event the category of “real” guns may be misleading. Of the 143 incidents involving an object that was formally classified as a “real gun”, just 22 were handguns and 8 were rifle/shotguns. There were 113 incidents classified either as “other firearms,” a category (WP8) that includes air rifles, or as “BB Guns,” which is its own category (WP0). "
Note that the total amount of children carrying firearms in Virginia schools is 30. Thirty. As in, three dozens. Out of 1,235,309 students of varying age.
This is the Virginia school system's own statistic.
http://youthviolence.edschool.virginia.edu/violence-in-schools/national-statistics.html
According to the National School Safety Center, the total amount of homicides in American schools during the school day - in all of the United States of America had been 1. As in 1. As in one.
Every single year, news continue to tell us of rising violent crime rate, violent youth, The Children Rising To Devour Us. THey do this despite the consistently dropping rate of violence among youth.
Conclusion:
Either the oppressive majority of these hundreds of thousands of young men and women carrying pistols to school manage to hide it so awesomely well that nobody notices them - and then to continue to commit no violent crimes with them - suggesting that them carrying these arms is not actually a problem - or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.
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A recent survey taken by students showed that in the last year, one in ten of fifth and sixth graders said they had used a knife, gun, or club to hurt someone on school grounds.
Gonna call BS on this one. First, 5th and 6th graders? Ages 10 to 12. While I carried a pocketknife from about 5th grade until I graduated in the early 90s, not many other students did (at least that I'm aware of). I suspect the vast majority of those weaponized students used clubs (books, baseball bats in gym class, etc), with a small fraction using knives, and a statistically insignificant portion using guns.
Think of how big the news reporting would be if a 5th grader pulled a gun during a schoolyard fight That nobody can come up with decent stats indicates it verges on the realm of the theoretical for those age groups.
Chris
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or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.
...and on discussion boards on the Interweb. Oops.
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According to the National School Safety Center, the total amount of homicides in American schools during the school day - in all of the United States of America had been 1. As in 1. As in one.
really? over what time frame?
"consistently dropping rate of violence among youth."
in what world?
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really? over what time frame?
The year 2009. Mash the link.
in what world?
The world of the FBI Uniform Crime Report.
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http://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797%2898%2900009-9/abstract
Violence among youths is an important public health problem. Between 1985 and 1991, homicide rates among youths 15–19 years of age increased 154% and remain, today, at historically high levels. This paper reviews the major trends in homicide victimization and perpetration among youths over the last decade, the key risk factors associated with violence, and summarizes the many primary prevention efforts under way to reduce violence. Previous research points to a number of factors that increase the probability of violence during adolescence and young adulthood. Some of these factors include the early onset of aggressive behavior in childhood, social problem-solving skill deficits, exposure to violence, poor parenting practices and family functioning, negative peer influences, access to firearms, and neighborhoods characterized by high rates of poverty, transiency, family disruption, and social isolation. Efforts to address some of the primary risk factors for violence are under way across the United States, but evaluations to confirm program effectiveness are needed.
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/youthviolence/chapter1/sec2.html#myths
Myth: The epidemic of violent behavior that marked the early 1990s is over, and young people—as well as the rest of U.S. society—are much safer today.
Fact: Although such key indicators of violence as arrest and victimization data clearly show significant reductions in violence since the peak of the epidemic in 1993, an equally important indicator warns against concluding that the problem is solved. Self-reports by youths reveal that involvement in some violent behaviors remains at 1993 levels (see Chapter 2).
we have folks involved in the school system here. i'd be interested in their experiences
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or, more likely, they do not actually exist, and their numbers are highly exaggerated by principals, teachers, and other attention-seekers for funds, political power, and media exposure.
Yep, and their hysteria is what would lead to children being scared by their elders into thinking that TSA patdowns are necessary for something as innocuous as a prom.
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http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5702a1.htm
During July 1999--June 2006, a total of 116 school-associated homicides occurred among students (an average annual homicide rate of 0.03 per 100,000 students) and were associated with 109 events (Table); approximately 78% of these deaths occurred on a school campus. Eight of the 109 events included more than one death. Most homicides included gunshot wounds (65%), stabbing or cutting (27%), and beatings (12%). Calculations using NCHS mortality data for July 1999--June 2004 indicated that the proportion of homicides among school-age children that were school associated was 0.96% (i.e., 79 of 8,236 total homicides).
The mean and median age of decedents was 15 years (range: 6--18 years). Male students, students in senior high schools (or schools that combined high-school grades with lower grades), students attending schools in central cities, and public-school students accounted for the largest proportions of victims. However, rates did not differ significantly in rural areas compared with urban fringe/large town** areas or in public schools compared with private schools.
Overall and single-victim school-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly during July 1992--June 2006; both decreased from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students (p<0.001 and p = 0.004 by chi-square test, respectively). However, rates for overall and single-victim school-associated homicides during a more recent period, July 1999--June 2006, did not change significantly (Figure). During both periods (July 1992--June 2006 and July 1999--June 2006), multiple-victim student homicide rates remained stable.
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Violence among youths is an important public health problem. Between 1985 and 1991, homicide rates among youths 15–19 years of age increased 154% and remain, today, at historically high levels.
Yes. We know this. How does this contradict the statements I linked to that homicide rates declined after 1993]? Do you understand the difference between the year 1993 and the year 1995? Note the weasel phrasing, too.
Note that the article you linked to has been written in 1998, and hardly reflects the reductions in crime rate seen since.
According to the other article you linked to, "Overall and single-victim school-associated student homicide rates decreased significantly during July 1992--June 2006; both decreased from 0.07 per 100,000 students to 0.03 per 100,000 students "
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Fact: Although such key indicators of violence as arrest and victimization data clearly show significant reductions in violence since the peak of the epidemic in 1993, an equally important indicator warns against concluding that the problem is solved. Self-reports by youths reveal that involvement in some violent behaviors remains at 1993 levels (see Chapter 2).
Even if we believed 'self-reports by youth' (self-reporting is amazingly irregular in terms of providing realistic crime data) - according to Chapter 2 of that report, said 'behaviors' (they provide no listing of what behavior is mentioned), are less likely to involve firearms.
Here is the report you quoted, from that very site:
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/youthviolence/chapter1/sec3.html#chap2
Today, with fewer young people carrying weapons, including guns, to school and elsewhere than in the early 1990s, violent encounters are less likely to result in homicide and serious injury and therefore are less likely to draw the attention of police. . By 1999, arrest rates for homicide, rape, and robbery had all dropped below 1983 rates. In contrast, arrest rates for aggravated assault remained higher than they were in 1983, having declined only 24 percent from the peak rates in 1994.
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ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns? heres a hint... when did the metal detectors become more prevalent? and is there a possible correlation?
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when i went to school only a few folks carried and we/they were mostly a holes. nowadays some real nice kids carry and more importantly feel like they have to. and more sadly i can't honestly tell em they are wrong.
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ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns? heres a hint... when did the metal detectors become more prevalent? and is there a possible correlation?
Metal detectors are rather uncommon even in American schools, excepting horrific inner-city districts. I suspect the real reason is the reduction in overall violent crime, among kids and adults. Crime among children and young adults tracks with general crime.
I am happy that we have agreed on the conclusion that less children are carrying guns today.
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when i went to school only a few folks carried and we/they were mostly a holes. nowadays some real nice kids carry and more importantly feel like they have to. and more sadly i can't honestly tell em they are wrong.
ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns? heres a hint... when did the metal detectors become more prevalent? and is there a possible correlation?
So, which is it? Are more or less kids carrying guns???
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Fewer ???
;)
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Metal detectors are rather uncommon even in American schools, excepting horrific inner-city districts.
really? your experience is different than mine
I am happy that we have agreed on the conclusion that less children are carrying guns today.
you are yet again mistaken. more kids carry today than ever. whats worse is the type of kid who carries has shifted. but again perhaps your experience is different than mine. i own a wand for use in remilling old lumber. i get called to use it at partys . i live in a fairly rural environment. i get lots of guns on young kids. kids too young to drive. more guns than knives. i had three young men that worked banquets at howard with me. real nice squared away guys going somewhere in their lives. the kind you want your daughter to drag home. one night the topic of guns came up and i was surprised that all 3 carried. i was forced to admit that their reasons for carry were valid
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http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_metal_detectors.html
The majority of schools in the United States do NOT use metal detectors on a day-to-day basis. While there are no credible statistics on the exact number of schools using metal detectors, stationary metal detectors used on a daily basis are typically limited to large urban school districts with a chronic history of weapons-related offenses. U.S. schools regularly using stationary metal detectors on a day-to-day basis are the exception, not the rule.
Note that the prevalence of an event is not a matter of personal experience but a matter of statistics. I am as capable of inquiring into these statistics from here as you are from Virginia. Even if you were a school teacher - which by your own statements you are not - your experience would be at best with a handful of schools, not with the entire American school system.
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you are yet again mistaken. more kids carry today than ever. whats worse is the type of kid who carries has shifted
ever wonder why fewer kids are carrying guns?
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really? your experience is different than mine
I live in Manassas, hardly a yuppie paradise. None of the schools I've been to in the City, including Osbourne HS (fed by Georgetown South), had metal detectors. None of the schools I've been to anywhere in the past decade have had metal detectors. I think reality is less pervasive than you'd lead us to think.
JamisJockey, your boy went to school in Hoodbridge until you moved, did his school have metal detectors?
Maybe parents on this board with kids in public schools should weigh in on the presence of metal detectors in the schools their kids attend.
Chris
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I graduated from a public high school in 2004. We did not have metal detectors, and the school still doesn't. None of the schools we played football against had them either. Neither do any of the schools in the area where I now live.
The only schools I've known to have metal detectors are either in high density urban areas or are schools for criminal youths.
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http://www.nabita.org/documents/ThreatAssmtarticleSchPsyQuarterly.pdf
heres a study of one methodology and its got some stats
and another study with more stats both studies focus on va
http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/2007VA_High_School_Safety_Study_Survey_Report.pdf
they wand at dances here after a kid got stabbed to death at a dance
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http://www.nabita.org/documents/ThreatAssmtarticleSchPsyQuarterly.pdf
heres a study of one methodology and its got some stats
and another study with more stats both studies focus on va
http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/2007VA_High_School_Safety_Study_Survey_Report.pdf
The first study makes no reference to the prevalence of metal detectors.
According to the second study, which you yourself quoted:
However, most students noted that they did not have metal detectors (76%) or a requirement that students wear badges or picture identification (83%)
Among teachers - again, from the same study you quoted:
However, most teachers noted that they did not have metal detectors (89%) or a requirement for students to wear badges (93%)
Note that teachers are likely to be more knowledgeable about the school security processes than the students. At least one hopes so.
According to the article, "the accuracy of student reports can only be verified by obtaining security
information from each high school. The school safety audits completed by principals will be used for this
purpose."
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http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/vcss/documents/07-08 SchoolSafetyReport.pdf
This is a link to the Virginia School Safety Report 2008.
This is the official survey of school principals and superintendents on the security measures used by Virginia schools.
Page 19 tells us that "portable metal detecting wands" are used in 12% of Virginia schools. THe prevalence of fixed metal detectors is not stated, but page 20 of the same study tells us that they are "less frequent".
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I graduated from a public high school in 2004. We did not have metal detectors, and the school still doesn't. None of the schools we played football against had them either. Neither do any of the schools in the area where I now live.
The only schools I've known to have metal detectors are either in high density urban areas or are schools for criminal youths.
Mirrors my experience...none of the schools in my area, not even the one specifically for the thugabees (i.e., their last chance before expulsion) have metal detectors or security screening. I'm an '06 graduate and still have a sibling in the high school I went to.
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Them metal detectors run on electricity don't they? I'm not sure the school in my area has that stuff yet :P.
Being a rural area the local high school (at last check) didn't even ban pocket knives so long as the blade was shorter than the width of your hand.
In contrast, at a slightly larger small town school only 25 miles away, one of my nephews was suspended for having a set of fingernail clippers with the file on it, they defined that as a weapon.
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I live in Manassas, hardly a yuppie paradise. None of the schools I've been to in the City, including Osbourne HS (fed by Georgetown South), had metal detectors. None of the schools I've been to anywhere in the past decade have had metal detectors. I think reality is less pervasive than you'd lead us to think.
JamisJockey, your boy went to school in Hoodbridge until you moved, did his school have metal detectors?
Maybe parents on this board with kids in public schools should weigh in on the presences of metal detectors in the schools their kids attend.
Chris
Neither Woodson High nor Frost Middle uses WTMDs.
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As of a year or two ago, the principal/superintendent of the local school was still storing students' rifles in his office during the day during hunting season :)
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As of a year or two ago, the principal/superintendent of the local school was still storing students' rifles in his office during the day during hunting season :)
Do the students find that comforting, and does it enhance their learning experience? :laugh:
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I suspect the vast majority of those weaponized students used clubs (books, baseball bats in gym class, etc), with a small fraction using knives, and a statistically insignificant portion using guns.
Exactly; I whacked a bully with a desk in 5th grade. I don't see a push to ban desks.
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I live across the street from a public elementary school and 1/2 mile from another. No metal detectors when I have entered the buildings. I live 1/4 and 1/2 mile from two different public high schools, same lack. Same for the Junior high 1/8 mile away.
Last, no metal detectors at the school I send my kids to.
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http://www.schoolsecurity.org/trends/school_metal_detectors.html
Note that the prevalence of an event is not a matter of personal experience but a matter of statistics. I am as capable of inquiring into these statistics from here as you are from Virginia. Even if you were a school teacher - which by your own statements you are not - your experience would be at best with a handful of schools, not with the entire American school system.
this was a dance a prom not everyday and proms create a special challenge. kids from different schools and the conflict that carries. some of the halls won't rent to you without security that meets their standards and thats wands in my area. had one fatal stabbing and a couple less serious incidents.
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I take it that you no longer claim that metal detectors are common in schools.
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I take it that you no longer claim that metal detectors are common in schools.
you are mistaken
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you are mistaken
So you continue to hold that position contrary to all evidence?
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you are mistaken
Do you believe that the principals of Virginia's schools have lied to the VDOE? Perhaps you would like to lodge a formal complaint?
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Metal detectors are not common in schools.
Metal detectors are common in urban public schools.
Most rural/suburban public schools are safe, decent places. Some of them even provide a quality education.
Urban public schools are wholly different. Some of them may well be best served by TSA style pat-downs.
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Urban public schools are wholly different. Some of them may well be best served by TSA style pat-downs.
If I were a stereotypical, middle-class parent - which I will never be - and I had a child in a school that utilizes such security measures, I would assume one of the following:
1. The school is a dangerous place full of junior thugs and there is a semblance of a genuine justification to these measures. This is not conducive to a good education for my child, nor to his/her/its safety or future development as a free citizen.
2. The school is not a dangerous place, but is run by paranoid control freaks. his is not conducive to a good education for my child, nor to his/her/its safety or future development as a free citizen.
3. Both of the above are true.
Note also that the quality of schools is known to be a factor for parents' choice of address.
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you presume that a lot of folks have more choices than they do
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you presume that a lot of folks have more choices than they do
I was specific about the sort of people I was talking about. THere's plenty of statistical evidence of people leaving these sort of school districts.
...oh wait, was this also faked by the conspiracy of parents, schoolteachers, students, and principals designed to underestimate the prevalence of metal detectors?