Post by: SomeKid on June 01, 2007, 03:31:46 PM
I see constant references to it all over APS/THR. What is so special about Firefly, and if it is so awesome, where can I watch?
Post by: Ron on June 01, 2007, 03:53:03 PM
Your Googlefoo must be weak, work at it you must, hmmm.
Wiki]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28TV_series%29
http://www.amazon.com/Firefly-Complete-Ron-Glass/dp/B0000AQS0F/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/105-6558691-0378832?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1180745360&sr=8-1Firefly
Post by: SomeKid on June 01, 2007, 03:58:55 PM
So, what is Firefly?
Post by: Ron on June 01, 2007, 04:01:25 PM
For fans that miss it, here is the theme song.
http://www.fireflywiki.org/img/Ballad_of_Serenity.mp3
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 01, 2007, 05:02:56 PM
The first link does not work. I don't exactly feel like paying money to figure out what you guys are talking about, especially if it is going to be boring.
So, what is Firefly?
So, what is Firefly?
Try taking out the typo so it looks like a web address.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28TV_series%29
Post by: Manedwolf on June 01, 2007, 05:42:09 PM
It's something every gorram browncoat's gotta have.
And to the OP, it's well-loved not only because of the themes, but because the dialogue is as sharp as a razor blade, and the spaceships have the "kick it to make it go" believable weathered and worn-down-ness of the Millenium Falcon. It's a working universe, not a utopian one.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 01, 2007, 06:10:44 PM
I just saw it at Target for 16.99. But that's a chunk of change for me right now, and I've been watching too many movies lately, so it stayed on the shelf. I remain a Firefly virgin.
And Somekid, you can only see it on DVD, as it is all over.
Post by: Boomhauer on June 01, 2007, 06:20:32 PM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 01, 2007, 06:25:15 PM
Wasn't there a lot of gun-related cool in the series, too?
Yes.
Post by: zahc on June 01, 2007, 06:34:18 PM
No, it's good, really. It's just dosen't deserve to have as much originality attributed to it as it does. It's also butchered by Fox.
I want Vera.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 01, 2007, 06:35:11 PM
And no, if it was derived from said anime, it'd have some kind of halfassed gaia-theory mysticism to it. It did not. It was original because the underlying philosophy was purely liberatarian, and that's NEVER anything seen in anime. Anime is a product of the happily statist, collective Japanese culture, and that's not a theme I've ever seen in any works. Ever.
That, and the dialogue is very well-written.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 01, 2007, 07:32:12 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 01, 2007, 07:36:39 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 01, 2007, 07:46:13 PM
Meanwhile:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_tv
http://www.fireflywiki.org/Firefly/HomePage
http://space.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn8211
Post by: Bogie on June 01, 2007, 10:12:46 PM
You can NEVER have enough grenades.
When in doubt, start yanking triggers and backing toward the door.
You can NEVER have enough grenades.
Post by: K Frame on June 02, 2007, 04:19:13 AM
Yeah, but she's our witch.
Post by: Stickjockey on June 02, 2007, 04:45:14 AM
You in the Portland area by chance? If so, I'll loan it to you.
Post by: meinbruder on June 02, 2007, 06:40:37 AM
http://www.fireflyseason2.com/Index.asp
}:)>
Post by: Manedwolf on June 02, 2007, 08:11:18 AM
Let's put it this way- there wasn't a single episode wheras the crew of the Serenity didn't kick ass and take names.
Or in one case, kick someone's ass into an engine intake.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 02, 2007, 08:51:01 AM
It taught vocabulary...
Quote
Zoe: You sanguine about the kinda reception we're gonna get?
Mal: Absolutely. What's sanguine?
Zoe: Hopeful. Plus, point of interest, it also means bloody.
Mal: Well, that pretty much covers all the options, now don't it?
Mal: Absolutely. What's sanguine?
Zoe: Hopeful. Plus, point of interest, it also means bloody.
Mal: Well, that pretty much covers all the options, now don't it?
It taught teamwork...
Quote
ZOE: (stopping Jayne) This is something the Captain needs to do for himself.
MAL: (muffled,fighting) No - it's not!
ZOE: Oh... (excessive gunfire ensures)
MAL: (muffled,fighting) No - it's not!
ZOE: Oh... (excessive gunfire ensures)
It taught ethics...
Quote
Jayne: "Hell, I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he's gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there's a woman, or if I'm gettin paid; mostly only when I'm gettin paid. But eating people alive, when does that get fun?"
Yes, far better than Schoolhouse Rock or ABC Afterschool Specials.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 02, 2007, 09:13:35 AM
http://www.tv.com/science-fiction/genre/10/topshows.html?era=&g=10&tag=genre_tabs;highest_rated
Also, search on APS and THR for "Firefly" in the thread titles. Lotsa fun threads, including "Guns of Firefly" and "I Know We Don't Need Another Firefly Thread" (or something like that).
Post by: Boomhauer on June 02, 2007, 10:41:22 AM
Quote
Or in one case, kick someone's ass into an engine intake.
I'd forgotten about that one. That was good
Post by: mtnbkr on June 02, 2007, 12:05:15 PM
Chris
Post by: MechAg94 on June 02, 2007, 01:13:43 PM
Post by: zahc on June 02, 2007, 05:16:39 PM
Quote
I Know We Don't Need Another Firefly Thread
I actually started that one.
Post by: PPGMD on June 02, 2007, 06:50:02 PM
Post by: Boomhauer on June 02, 2007, 08:08:14 PM
Plus the fact that the actors and crew liked doing the Firefly series and knew that this was going to be their last shot, they gave it their absolute best.
Serentity was great, but the series didn't lag far behind. However, in jumping before jumping into the movie Serenity, watch the Firefly series first. It will introduce you to the characters and their backgrounds, and sets the stage for the movie.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 02, 2007, 08:46:17 PM
Post by: erik the bold on June 05, 2007, 01:29:19 PM
Trailers, including the first nine minutes of Serenity are at: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/serenity/trailers.php
Post by: Manedwolf on June 06, 2007, 12:02:50 AM
Post by: client32 on June 06, 2007, 02:25:45 AM
You can also find scenes on youtube.
There wasn't an episode without something memorable in it.
One of my favorites: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8QlGBuFRB4
Post by: client32 on June 06, 2007, 02:29:41 AM
Best sort of girls, too...a variety. One a quite literally professional seductress, one a cheerful and cute mechanic, and one a badass with a cut-down Winchester 92 strapped to her thigh.
You failed to mentioned the government experement, freaked out, dangerous, psychic, unstable one.
Post by: mtnbkr on June 06, 2007, 02:35:37 AM
You failed to mentioned the government experement, freaked out, dangerous, psychic, unstable one.
The best kind...
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on June 07, 2007, 09:20:29 AM
Besides, I have an aversion to the freaked out, psychotic sorts. There's PLENTY of those around!
Post by: bdutton on June 07, 2007, 09:41:28 AM
More original than BSG and more realistic in a human sense than ST or SG. No weird aliens or women painted all green (not that theres anything wrong with pretty girls painted green).
It is one of the few shows that I WANT to watch multiple times.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 07, 2007, 09:53:18 AM
"Do you want to run this ship?"
"YES!"
"...well...you can't!"
Post by: client32 on June 08, 2007, 04:31:00 AM
Yeah, but she was supposed to be a young to mid teen, AFAIK. I don't count girls under legal age as a "babe".
Ah, good point. I guess I didn't remember/realize that she was supposed to be that young. Watching The Unit probably didn't help either.
Post by: S. Williamson on June 10, 2007, 11:01:16 PM
Mixed-up though she was, I liked Saffron.
Post by: SomeKid on June 10, 2007, 11:29:33 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 11, 2007, 03:16:37 AM
Post by: S. Williamson on June 11, 2007, 08:48:32 AM
Post by: Ben on June 11, 2007, 10:03:12 AM
Quote
Do you know Chinese?
If you don't, here's some help:
http://fireflychinese.kevinsullivansite.net/index.html
Post by: onions! on June 11, 2007, 04:57:23 PM
Why are the Alliance troops wearing the uniforms from Starship Troopers?
& what are the chances of a Wildey being on a backwater planet in 500 years?
Post by: Strings on June 11, 2007, 08:11:29 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 11, 2007, 10:00:46 PM
O.K.,I just finished episodes 1 & 2.
Why are the Alliance troops wearing the uniforms from Starship Troopers?
& what are the chances of a Wildey being on a backwater planet in 500 years?
Why are the Alliance troops wearing the uniforms from Starship Troopers?
& what are the chances of a Wildey being on a backwater planet in 500 years?
It's not a "Wildey" it's just a "gun". The idea on Firefly was that weapons came from a multitude of worlds from a multitude of makers. They aren't what they actually are.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 11, 2007, 10:19:45 PM
Plus, if you were homesteading on a frontier planet far away from parts and armorers, would you, for a ranch gun, want a super-complex laser that needed to be charged and that you couldn't fix, something with tiny, complicated plastic parts like an FN 2, or a sturdy, powerful lever-action carbine, a drum of powder, bullet molds and reloading press?
Post by: Boomhauer on June 12, 2007, 02:07:51 PM
Quote
And Jayne has absolutely everything.
Including guns that are made from a little bit of everything (Vera)
Post by: SomeKid on June 15, 2007, 02:15:14 PM
The one major detraction is the constant anti-Christian bias, though I do love the more freedom minded themes.
Does the movie take potshots at Christianity the same was as the show?
Post by: Boomhauer on June 15, 2007, 02:35:05 PM
Quote
The one major detraction is the constant anti-Christian bias, though I do love the more freedom minded themes.
Well, it isn't so much Christian bashing as that according to the story, Mal lost his faith after the final defeat of the Independence forces, at the Battle of Serenity Valley, IIRC. Not portrayed this way, in the movie, though. Also, many have speculated that Shepard Book was the commander of the invasion force that crushed the Browncoat forces.
Quote
Does the movie take potshots at Christianity the same was as the show?
I can't recall any of what you view as the bashing of Christianity in the book.
Post by: client32 on June 15, 2007, 02:55:45 PM
In the movie, and by the end of the series I think, the crew has a great amount of respect for the preacher. You might wait for the series to play out before make the entire judgement. I guess I wan't bothered by the anti-Christian bias so much because it is so rampant in TV now anyways.
One of the things that I was the most disspointed about the series stopping is not learning Book's story. River's story is cool and all, but Book was more compelling to me.
Avenger,
After watching the movie, it is my theory that Book was an "operative" or whatever the enemy guy was in the movie.
"Do you know what your sin is?" it just seems like the next career path for a man who has had all his views of the world and people shattered. After losing all faith in people like that, he might have been looking for a greater purpose.
Post by: SomeKid on June 15, 2007, 03:05:20 PM
No, the real Christian bashing came in the Episode Safe.
Christians are portrayed as uneducated backwards kidnapping evil who burn people as witches at the stake. Oh, we are also led by a man who is also a murderer, and we kill innocents in the name of God. Maybe it is a testament to how little TV I watch, but that episode was the worst smear on Christians I have seen in years on TV.
Post by: onions! on June 15, 2007, 05:06:09 PM
The episode"Safe",w/the villagers & the whole burning at the stake didn't strike me as being particularly anti-Christian so much as anti-backwards.I too am aware of what happened @ Salem & the Spanish Inquisition,& Puritans & heretics et al.I might be wrong but what I saw there asid to me that religon can be a bad thing if taken out of context & twisted by people who choose not to think things through.
I think that having white Anglos burning a "witch" @ the stake just gave a point of reference of a Bad Thing that all of us could understand.
Post by: Strings on June 15, 2007, 05:16:44 PM
Yes, you COULD see Safe as a shot at Christianity. There are LOTS of things on TV that can be taken as shots at different religions... if the followers of those religions choose to take them as such...
Hell... we have examples in recent history of folks perverting Christianity to their own ends: Jonestown and David Koresh kinda leap to mind. Is it so unthinkable then, that someone in the future might do the same?
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 15, 2007, 05:37:27 PM
I didn't like the portrayal of the town folk at the end of Safe, either. I can't tell if the point was "narrow-minded intolerant people = bad", or if they were also implying that "religious people in general are narrow-minded intolerant people = bad." Hopefully just the former, and used the witch-burner stereotype as an example. In either case, I didn't take it to be a jab at Christians specifically.
The good news is, the episodes start getting much better, IMHO, at this point in your viewing, especially all of Disk 3 (I gave it three 9s and one 10). I rated Safe a 5 and Shindig a 4. It's frustrating to think about how good the shows could have been if it had the seven years to develop that some of the Star Trek series did.
When I first started watching the series, the two characters that I found annoying were River and Book. By the time I had finished the series, I realized they both heavily contributed to the mix of personalities, and the loss of either would have made the program more vanilla. They're kind of like jalapenos in chili: yes they're too hot, but without them you just have goulash.
Post by: SomeKid on June 15, 2007, 05:53:12 PM
They may as well have come out and said the Bible is nothing but a fanciful book of lies.
Say what you will, but Firefly has a very not-so-subtle anti-Christian bias.
onions, at first I thought the same thing. However, the atrocious butchering of the Bible was what made it obvious it was anti-Christian, and not just anti-backwards idiot. They were portraying Christians as backwards idiots who burn people who are different. For a series with so much potential and such a great overall theme it is simply pathetic.
Strings, shall I call apples oranges? I do not need a thicker skin, I am making an observation. Instead of telling me to grow a thicker skin when I make an observation, why don't you just say 'Shut up Christian?" If however you disagree with my observation, why don't you try to disprove it? (And telling me to grow thicker skin and that other people have twisted religion for bad things does not disprove my assertion that Firefly has an anti-Christian bias in its episodes, Safe and JayneTown.)
Regardless, try to keep the thread about Firefly. I really did not want to turn this into a debate about Hollywood attacking my religion.
SB, I hope you are right. I do agree that the crazy girl and joke preacher add something; though so far I think the fake preacher detracts from the series far more than he adds.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 15, 2007, 06:09:50 PM
Then, in the movie, Book tells Mal "I don't care what you believe ! Just ... believe it."
Although each episode was standalone, there were events that only made sense if you saw the episodes in order, and there were certain storylines (arcs) that were slowly developing in the background (River's story, Inara's story, Book's story, the Blue Sun Corporation, etc.) I think if the season had lasted three or four years all of these would have been completed, as well as new ones being created. Firefly ran for only 2/3 of one season, plus a movie. In the movie they did complete one of the arcs.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 15, 2007, 06:12:22 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 15, 2007, 06:17:37 PM
Quote
Then what of the episode right after Safe? "Jaynetown". Where River tears the Bible apart calling it many untrue things, and the best the preacher can do is say it isn't a fact, it is about faith?
That would make me sad, too - the silly notion that one should have faith in that which is not believable - just for faith's sake. I have faith in the Bible BECAUSE it is factual. Quote
They're kind of like jalapenos in chili: yes they're too hot, but without them you just have goulash.
If you put jalapenos in my chili, I'm going to burn you at the stake.
First white chili, now green chili? Time for the cleansing rain. Post by: SomeKid on June 15, 2007, 07:25:47 PM
Quote
I have faith in the Bible BECAUSE it is factual.
Same. Nuff said.
It really pains me that such a good series had such serious flaws. I really mean it when I say that the anti-Christian bias is the only thing that is making the show unpleasant for me. It might be half an hour of great show, then a minute of just pure waste...it is sad.
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for cancellation? Low ratings?
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 15, 2007, 07:39:42 PM
I'm as doctrinal as anyone in the world and I think you're projecting.
If the Inquisition (for example) wasn't doctrinally correct than it doesn't represent you or other true followers does it? So criticism of the Inquisition solely applies to folks who are misinterpreting doctrine, not believers in truth (you and me). Such criticism can thus be ignored.
Ergo, it is impossible to be offended since it isn't aimed at you.
The Bible is, in the end, just a book. So tearing it up, while tasteless, is meaningless. To believe it is "desecration" is idolatry.
Also, if someone without knowledge of the context of its writing wants to point out apparant flaws in Scripture, so what? Given the reality of Biblical history we do, in fact, take its Truth on faith. Historical accuracy can support that it reflects the temporal aspects more-or-less correctly, but only faith gives us assurance that the truth of G-d's relationship to man is reflected in it.
Lacking that faith, it is foolishness (per Scripture itself).
To worry about what a fictional show has to say, tangentally in fact, about faith is below a believer. We need to be better than worrying about such petty things.
Take the show for the good it has to say about courage, principles and family, especially family drawn together by "chance" (design?), and how faith can be regained through love.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 15, 2007, 07:43:13 PM
Quote
Out of curiosity, what was the reason for cancellation? Low ratings?
Low ratings. Fox aired the episodes out of order in 2002, including airing the pilot last, and was constantly preempting the shows for ball games. They made it difficult for viewers to follow along. There were enough die-hards, though, who clamored for a DVD set, and the set sold so well
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_4839242_8/102-1266266-8902520?ie=UTF8&docId=1000085231&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=right-1&pf_rd_r=0W68SZCX90WN19C4JY4T&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_p=288846601&pf_rd_i=1000084481
that Universal took a chance and made the movie in 2005.
You will be happy to know that the character Saffron returns in a later episode. And no, she's not hotter than Inara !
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 15, 2007, 08:38:04 PM
Now for those who have watched the series and then also have the set, are you saying that the episode order in the set is the correct order? Because I have found so far that everything seems to fit in order based on viewing it in the aired order.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 15, 2007, 09:18:20 PM
Disk 1. Serenity Part 1 & 2, The Train Job, Bushwhacked
Disk 2. Shindig, Safe, Our Mrs. Reynolds, Jaynestown
Disk 3. Out of Gas, Ariel, War Stories, Trash
Disk 4. The Message, Heart of Gold, Objects in Space
The "air date" shown on the back of each cover shows the date that Fox showed the episodes, but they are not in the correct order for the story lines. Three of the episodes weren't aired at all.
The worst offender is the pilot episode Serenity Part 1 & 2. This was meant to be the shown first, pilot episode, but Fox decided it was too slow and didn't show it until the end of the series ("Air date:12/20/02"). You're supposed to watch it first, as it appears as the first episode on Disk 1. The others are in the correct order except that Shindig and Safe were aired three episodes late. I can't think of anything offhand that is revealed too late on those two, except possibly for the development of personal relationships. Objects in Space should be watched last, as it appears on the DVDs, and not before the unaired episodes.
Looking at the sequences, the order the episodes they were aired in isn't as severe as I thought, except for the pilot episode.
Post by: SomeKid on June 15, 2007, 09:58:36 PM
Quote
6 a : the act of perceiving a mental object as spatially and sensibly objective; also : something so perceived b : the attribution of one's own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety
While I see your point regarding how the Inquisitors and other doctrinally incorrect are not the same as me, the attacks ARE aimed at us, as the people who launch them believe all Christians are such. They are not only attacking the Jim Jones sect types, they are attacking all.
It is very possible I am attributing something to malice however that can better be explained by sheer unfettered ignorance. That is a point I think I may have overlooked. Perhaps I have been in college too long (where it IS a malicious attack on Christianity quite often). Though I do admit I still lean towards it being an anti-Christian bias, as it would fit well.
I agree wholeheartedly about its physical form being 'just' a book, and that it is tasteless. I don't think I ever said it was desecration, so I do not know where that came from. It would be idolatry though were I to believe such. The point of that scene which was an attack on Christianity is when the girl begins proclaiming the Bible wrong, and then the preacher backs her up by saying it doesn't have to be right, we just have to have faith in something that is wrong.
It isn't always below a believer, when these stereotypes are spread it sends people away from Christianity, sort of like when blacks were portrayed in movies as foaming at the mouthed rapists of white women. It didn't exactly form a positive image. A negative image of Christianity makes it harder for a Christian to witness to others. I have had multiple people tell me they were shocked I was a Southern Baptist. Why? Because I was not acting like a pretentious snob to them. Even here in the Bible Belt such beliefs have been formed. So, when someone who lacks knowledge of scriptures begins spouting off falsehoods and repeating the big lie as fact, it can cause damage.
And I do take the show for its good. It is the only way to enjoy the thing.
SB, I did notice when I looked into it that she comes back (I read the backs of the DVDs, so, I read the plots ahead of time). Yes, she IS hotter than the Brazillian chick.
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 15, 2007, 10:07:49 PM
Post by: Strings on June 16, 2007, 12:11:15 AM
It is very possible I am attributing something to malice however that can better be explained by sheer unfettered ignorance. That is a point I think I may have overlooked. Perhaps I have been in college too long (where it IS a malicious attack on Christianity quite often). Though I do admit I still lean towards it being an anti-Christian bias, as it would fit well.<
I think you're missing one very simple thing here: the majority religion of the States is Christianity (lumping all the denominations together). It's what most of us know. Showing a flipped-out perversion of such (as opposed to say, Buddhism) works because people will catch it: "Hey! That's not how that's supposed to go!". Had they used a different religion, most folks wouldn't have gotten the point that those villagers were messed-up in the 'eads...
As for River destroying the Bible, I think that was meant to do two things. 1) show that River's brain is seriously messed up (she couldn't get the idea of allegory). And 2) to make fun of those who try to explain the Bible in scientific terms
I've been a fan of Joss Whedon for awhile now. I have NEVER seen him purposely set out to offend any religion or ethnic group...
I have to ask though: do you get as upset when it's some other faith that appears to be belittled?
Post by: Manedwolf on June 16, 2007, 03:58:22 AM
Avenger,
After watching the movie, it is my theory that Book was an "operative" or whatever the enemy guy was in the movie.
"Do you know what your sin is?" it just seems like the next career path for a man who has had all his views of the world and people shattered. After losing all faith in people like that, he might have been looking for a greater purpose.
After watching the movie, it is my theory that Book was an "operative" or whatever the enemy guy was in the movie.
"Do you know what your sin is?" it just seems like the next career path for a man who has had all his views of the world and people shattered. After losing all faith in people like that, he might have been looking for a greater purpose.
According to theories based on script notes that didn't make it into the series and the movie, the reason why the Alliance sorts had given him immediate medical attention was that he was a respected, retired general.
Respected because he had, as a general, won the Battle of Serenity for the Alliance.
Would make sense, if serving on Mal's ship was his idea of penance, wouldn't it. How much more "christian" could you get?
Post by: SomeKid on June 16, 2007, 09:19:55 AM
Regarding River tearing up the Bible. The physical tearing did not bother me. What showed an anti-Christian bigotry was not having River unable to understand. Basically she says it does not make sense, and it is full of contradictions. Book stands there, all but agreeing with her. How is having the token Christian agree the Bible is a fairy tale anything but an insult? It would have been just the same is Book had said 'You are right, burn the stupid thing, Christianity is false'.
As to your final question, maybe. Ever watch Family Guy? They take cheap shots at everyone. It is funny. If Firefly would do the same instead of just constantly attacking Christianity it wouldn't be the issue. Cheap shots can be funny (even when directed at me), but it gets old after the same thing gets done repeatedly.
Post by: Strings on June 16, 2007, 09:33:39 AM
There are a LOT of ways that can be looked at: change in belief structure, personal belief, any number of things. I've met a great many Christians that do NOT look at the Bible as absolute, historical fact: it doesn't need to be such for them, as it presents a "greater truth". Would it REALLY shake your faith that much if parts of the Old Testament were proven to have happened differently than presented?
>As to your final question, maybe. Ever watch Family Guy? They take cheap shots at everyone. It is funny. If Firefly would do the same instead of just constantly attacking Christianity it wouldn't be the issue. Cheap shots can be funny (even when directed at me), but it gets old after the same thing gets done repeatedly.<
You seem to miss a VERY big point: they never had the CHANCE to take shots at anyone else, because it was cancelled early. What were they supposed to do: pick a faith to belittle each week? "Hey... let's show some Muslim fanatics in next week's episode! And maybe some Wiccans being flakey the week after that!"...
Post by: Manedwolf on June 16, 2007, 11:43:31 AM
Quote
Regarding River tearing up the Bible. The physical tearing did not bother me. What showed an anti-Christian bigotry was not having River unable to understand. Basically she says it does not make sense, and it is full of contradictions.
Because it is. It was meant to be allegory lessons on a lot of things. Otherwise you'd have to believe things literally, which would mean that Adam and Eve's kids were doing each other, (there were no other people!) and that's just horrifically gross. Human civilization did not start with banjo music.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 16, 2007, 12:04:57 PM
Adam and Eve's children married one another, as you said, because there were no other people. There was nothing wrong with it, in that case. I wonder if it bothers you when Heinlein characters do it.
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 16, 2007, 06:32:19 PM
But then again considering all the guns, babes and more guns that the general populace wouldn't go for it. Plus it is rather anti-government.
Post by: Nick1911 on June 16, 2007, 07:01:26 PM
It's really too bad it was canceled. I'm honestly surprised that another network didn't pick it up.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 16, 2007, 07:42:39 PM
Quote
I wish that they could have had the chance to go into a little bit more of the backgrounds of the characters.
Yup. Thats another way of saying you wish the series could have run for several years. Me too.Quote
it relied on dialog and character interactions way more then CG
The show actually received an Emmy for its special effects. I loved the way they would do an outer space shot of Serenity from a distance and out of focus, and then zoom in and in focus. Among other things, I liked the way they showed the ship approaching the net at the end of Our Mrs. Reynolds.What I really find striking about the special effects is the way they were so economical with them; that is, they used them relatively (for a sci-fi show) sparingly. They didnt use it very much, so when we did see them it was like a splash of water thrown at a man dying of thirst in the desert. It was great, but left me wanting more. Thats actually good: it made the effects we received that much more stimulating.
Contrast that with certain other sci-fi shows where we get put to sleep by the enormous amount of on screen cheesy graphics.
ymmv
Post by: Boomhauer on June 16, 2007, 09:06:04 PM
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But then again considering all the guns, babes and more guns that the general populace wouldn't go for it. Plus it is rather anti-government.
Which are it's best qualities, of course.
I think that yall would be interested to note that "Drive", which had the guy that played Mal in it, and similar twists of plot, etc, was cancelled after the first few episodes. Every time something good comes along, that I really like, it gets cancelled...
Post by: SomeKid on June 16, 2007, 09:20:11 PM
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You seem to miss a VERY big point: they never had the CHANCE to take shots at anyone else, because it was cancelled early. What were they supposed to do: pick a faith to belittle each week? "Hey... let's show some Muslim fanatics in next week's episode! And maybe some Wiccans being flakey the week after that!"...
Actually, they could have, and should have done exactly that. Not only so they don't come off as anti-Christian, but it would add a different element. It is entirely possible they intended to poke fun at others, but from what I have seen, there is no evidence to back it up.
Maned, if you read the Bible you would know it is not written to be viewed as a set of allegories. Now, there were parables, but they were clearly marked so as not to be confused with the truth.
Fistful, just gona give you the tried and true +1.
wm,
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Plus it is rather anti-government.
Heck, that the greatest part of the show!
Avenger, now, I will fight you for Kaylee. Sides, Safron won't be stabbing me in the back. I don't think I would ever un-chain her for example...
You can have Inara though. She might be really pretty, but I couldn't see myself being happy with a chick who supported my lazy butt by being so very close to the guy down the street...
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 17, 2007, 12:23:51 AM
Post by: SomeKid on June 17, 2007, 09:17:58 AM
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But at the same time who wouldn't want a chance to "tame" River?
Me! You can have her, I will take Kaylee; thank you very much!
Post by: Fjolnirsson on June 17, 2007, 09:21:07 AM
Zoe, Yo/Saff/Bridge,Kaylee,River and Inara. Not that I'd throw Inara out of bed for eating crackers...
Hmm, looking at this on paper, and considering my wife, It seems as though I prefer my women with a bit of aggression to them...
Post by: Sergeant Bob on June 17, 2007, 11:04:42 AM
Not that I'd throw Inara out of bed for eating crackers...
Its the only reason she'd be there.
Post by: Kaylee on June 22, 2007, 09:53:38 PM
1. I don't think the show is intentionally anti-Christian, nor do I think the folk in Safe were meant to be representations of Christians in general. Heck, it's one of the few shows I can think of in the recent past that had a notably Christian protagonist.. sure Book wasn't aggressive as some preacher-types, but that just ain't his way. I must admit, I really like his character. And yeah, Mal does have a pretty big chip on his shoulder for God.. that's part of his character arc (watch that battle scene that starts out the series again, now that you know his character). That said, if I recall correctly Joss (the creator of the show) is an atheist, so that may well poke out around the edges a bit.
But then again, he's also a statist leftist, and I suspect he's anti-RKBA as well... that despite that he could make a show that really appeals to conservative and libertarian gun nuts speaks right highly of his skill as a storyteller I think... no Roddenberry-esque utopian nonsense.
2. There are some folk out there now doing radio plays and even a couple fan films in the same setting. "Into the Black" comes to mind.. it has the usual problems of fan film efforts (low budget, oddly young and sometimes misplaced cast, not always professional acting) - but the theme song they put together is just awesome.
3. Jayne absolutely rocks. He's just so cute as he fights like mad to keep from growing a conscience... and he's mighty easy on the eyes to.
-K
Post by: jselvy on June 23, 2007, 03:42:34 AM
I for one hope that they do.
BTW Check out the Bedlam Bards "On The Drift" folk type music inspired by Firefly/Serenity. I have a copy and I really enjoy it.
Jefferson
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 23, 2007, 07:54:55 AM
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Jayne absolutely rocks
He knows shooting, too. Watch him in War Stories when he invades Niska's fortress. He goes forward shooting totally not blinking and focussed on his target (I don't know why he was shooting his pistol when he had a rifle, though). Contrast with Zoe when she pops out from behind cover shooting two pistols at once: blinking and flinching.Post by: Kaylee on June 23, 2007, 04:28:04 PM
Didn't the guy who played Jayne make some nice gun-nuttery comments once upon a time? I do recall getting the impression he was abnormally well grounded in reality for a guy named Baldwin.. :p
-K
and ooh! I found a lead on a guy making metal shells of Mal's pistol. I'm thinking I might have to get one or two, and have the innards milled out to mount around a real live j-frame.
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 23, 2007, 05:14:23 PM
I think I've read that Adam Baldwin has annoyed many anti-types on various web forums. According to Firefly, The Official Companion, Volume Two, they also used one of his knives in the show.
Weren't you in the process of having a duplicate of Mal's pistol made ? I'm trying to remember from the old THR thread without actually looking it up.
Post by: gaston_45 on June 23, 2007, 08:39:45 PM
http://www.fireflyseason2.com/Index.asp
Post by: Kaylee on June 23, 2007, 10:29:51 PM
And Silver - yeah, I have been. Played with a couple ideas - one a copy of the original around a revolver (which now that someone else got around to making the shrouds for I'll prolly manage within the year) and the other trying to eventually make and honest-to-gosh semi auto approximation of the thing. THAT will be years away, but if I get access to a good shop again someday it'd be a fun experiment.
Post by: Cosmoline on June 24, 2007, 12:04:25 AM
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huge stylistic borrows from a handful of anime shows
I don't remember anyone saying it was unique. Firefly borrows a lot from the classic British science fiction show Blake's 7, but then again so does everything else. There are some elements of Cowboy Bebop in it, but more than any anime it borrows from westerns. In many respects it *is* a Western, with some science fiction elements thrown in. The originality lies in the combination of genres and the unique twist Whedon puts on it.
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Christians are portrayed as uneducated backwards kidnapping evil who burn people as witches at the stake.
Just as a point of information, they're never identified as Christians. And the "bible" referenced in the show often has no resemblance to the Christian bible. There are several quotations that never came from a known biblical text.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2007, 03:19:34 AM
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 24, 2007, 08:15:51 AM
Firefly, The Official Companion, Volume One, page 78, has an article on how Mal's gun was built up from a Taurus 85.
Some site was selling a replica. Here's an eBay sale:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Firefly-Serenity-Mals-Pistol-Prop-Replica-Kit_W0QQitemZ290131317760QQihZ019QQcategoryZ60361QQcmdZViewItem
Firefly, The Official Companion, Volume Two, page 110, has an article on how Jayne's gun Vera was built up from a Saiga 12.
Season 2. That would be a dream come true, but I'm skeptical. I've seen that site around for quite a while now. As Zoe said in the movie, " Talkin' ain't doin' ".
Post by: Cosmoline on June 24, 2007, 06:47:36 PM
Perhaps it's the Orange Catholic Bible.
I think it's Josh Whedon's made up bible. Which when you think about it is a good way to avoid getting entangled in any serious sectarian issues.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 24, 2007, 06:55:37 PM
And in case you didn't get the earlier reference, the "Orange Catholic Bible" is referenced in Dune. So far as I know, it is fictional.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on June 24, 2007, 08:51:12 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 25, 2007, 06:16:29 AM
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Which when you think about it is a good way to avoid getting entangled in any serious sectarian issues.
That didn't work here.
Post by: bdutton on June 25, 2007, 10:20:58 AM
Avenger,
After watching the movie, it is my theory that Book was an "operative" or whatever the enemy guy was in the movie.
"Do you know what your sin is?" it just seems like the next career path for a man who has had all his views of the world and people shattered. After losing all faith in people like that, he might have been looking for a greater purpose.
After watching the movie, it is my theory that Book was an "operative" or whatever the enemy guy was in the movie.
"Do you know what your sin is?" it just seems like the next career path for a man who has had all his views of the world and people shattered. After losing all faith in people like that, he might have been looking for a greater purpose.
Another theory floating around the 'verse is Book was a senior alliance commander in the battle of Serenity Valley and was appalled at the level of destruction he had a hand in.
Post by: Cosmoline on June 25, 2007, 04:20:45 PM
Post by: Kaylee on June 25, 2007, 06:10:49 PM
Just as long as they don't wait ten years then give another trilogy to George Lucas to write, I'm happy.
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 25, 2007, 07:08:03 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2007, 03:51:37 PM
I watched the rest of the pilot episode(s) when I got home from work. I kept saying to myself, "I love this show!" "This show is swEET!" I have been converted. I really enjoyed the way Mal's lines sound so late-nineteenth-century.
Post by: CNYCacher on June 26, 2007, 06:07:42 PM
Later in the episode, River brings some pages from the bible back to Book, and she says something about "I took these from your symbol, but now they've turned to just paper." I found that to be very interesting. Somewhere in River's messed up but psychic mind, she saw the bible as something more than a book of paper. After the pages were removed from the whole book, the pages lost their meaning for her and became "just paper".
Did the writers intend to imply that River perceived something special about the bible that is normally not perceivable to the human eye?
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 26, 2007, 06:54:16 PM
Perhaps when she tore out the pages, she was reacting to the Bible as a symbol of something she disliked. Then later, she realized that, symbol or not, she had no right to mess with the man's property. Or something.
Post by: Strings on June 26, 2007, 10:59:22 PM
Step away from the Big Red Button...
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 27, 2007, 05:09:32 AM
Just a minor question: could y'all be over-analyzing this whole thing?
Step away from the Big Red Button...
Step away from the Big Red Button...
What, us over-analyze something? Never!
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 27, 2007, 06:19:35 AM
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could y'all be over-analyzing this whole thing
I hope so. Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on June 27, 2007, 09:38:58 AM
Just a minor question: could y'all be over-analyzing this whole thing?
Step away from the Big Red Button...
Step away from the Big Red Button...
I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of subliminal or ulterior motive to this post?
Post by: Nick1911 on June 27, 2007, 09:46:55 AM
Just a minor question: could y'all be over-analyzing this whole thing?
Step away from the Big Red Button...
Step away from the Big Red Button...
I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of subliminal or ulterior motive to this post?
<Sarcasm><Thread drift>
I think there is a subliminal message. So I put "Big Red Button" into google and hit I'm feeling lucky. This is the page that resulted.
Clearly this is a conspiracy against my productivity at work. Since I am an American, I will use my superior powers of inductive reasoning to conclude that your post is designed to reduce the productivity of ALL Americans.
</Sarcasm></Thread drift>
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 27, 2007, 01:51:16 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on June 28, 2007, 02:15:49 PM
Gentlemen, there is some definite progress. I went out tonight to run a few errands, and when I came home, she was
wait for it
Watching Firefly! Happy, happy, joy, joy!!
Post by: LadySmith on June 28, 2007, 10:15:53 PM
Post by: SomeKid on June 28, 2007, 10:35:19 PM
Don't know if it did this with anyone else, but it always brings back the idea of the Reds vs the Whites (Soviet Civil War, where the evil communist types also won).
Post by: Cosmoline on June 29, 2007, 02:12:46 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on June 30, 2007, 07:36:19 AM
I would advise that you do not read amateur movie reviews before you see it. They tend to give away some key surprises.
Post by: wmenorr67 on June 30, 2007, 05:34:54 PM
Ah nevermind.
Post by: client32 on June 30, 2007, 05:54:32 PM
Yes but that time in the movie when River....
Ah nevermind.
Ah nevermind.
I thought that was pretty cool myself.
"I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar." (it was in the trailer so I think I am safe.)
Post by: Boomhauer on July 02, 2007, 01:24:22 PM
And, Target had the Firefly set on sale for $17.99 last week, which is when I picked up my set. The movie costs $15. Get both, if you haven't already...
Post by: Silver Bullet on July 02, 2007, 10:24:36 PM
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It closes up one of the Firefly story arcs. ... They tend to give away some key surprises.
You:
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Let's put it this way- the movie has some big suprises and closes up a loose end...
You must have me set to "ignore".
Post by: Perd Hapley on July 04, 2007, 11:36:50 AM
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Welcome to the fold, Mr. & Mrs. Fistful. You two are now officially Browncoats.
Thanks, and yes we certainly are. We couldn't help but watch every episode over the course of just a few days. We spent about two hours at Borders today, enough time for me to finish reading the Firefly Official Companion, Vol. 2. They didn't have Vol. 1. Well, OK, I didn't read the scripts, but I read all the interviews and articles about the cast and crew, and such as that. Sad, I know. Even worse, I remember thinking it should have been called the Registered Companion.
Shucks, I've already watched some of the episodes with commentary. Which is funny stuff, except for Joss Whedon's heavy-handed ponderings over "Objects in Space." Ooh, look, River stands on the railings. That must mean she's an existentialist.
And since I'm officially a Browncoat, I should go ahead and state for the record that I think Kaylee is the prettiest.
Post by: Silver Bullet on July 04, 2007, 04:55:57 PM
1. Boot up Disk 4.
2. Select Special Features .
3. Highlight Joss Sings the Firefly Theme .
4. Hit the DVD controller left arrow; the curly graphic on the left side of the screen should change from white to yellow.
5. Hit the DVD controller Play key.
Adam Baldwin sings Hero of Canton .
Serenity DVD Easter egg :
1. Highlight Bonus Materials .
2. Hit the DVD controller left arrow; the wedge on the right side of the screen (at the 9 oclock position) will enable.
3. Click the wedge.
Some background info on how the Fruity Oaty Bar advertisement was created.
Firefly theme on Serenity DVD :
I've read people were disappointed that the theme song from the Firefly series doesn't show up in Serenity. Actually, it does. At the end of the credits at the end of the movie, the movie theme segues into an acoustical guitar version of the Firefly theme song. Very cool; very poignant. I'm reminded how good the music was in Firefly. My favorites are the music all through Out of Gas and at the funeral at the end of The Message. By the way, don't fast-forward through the credits to get to the Firefly theme. The closing theme for the movie, played all through the credits, is fantastic in its own way.
Chinese-to-English translation of much of the Chinese phrases spoken and written is here. It's your chance to find out who invited someone to "engage in a feces hurling contest with a monkey." Not very lady-like.
http://fireflychinese.home.att.net/
Props from the movie:
http://www.propstore.com/list/cat_id...b/itm/movs/877
Most informative Firefly site:
http://www.fireflywiki.org/
Post by: Ben on July 04, 2007, 05:56:35 PM
http://www.firefly-serendipity.com/
Post by: Silver Bullet on July 04, 2007, 06:08:40 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on July 19, 2007, 05:50:47 AM
http://www.breakingatmo.com/status/2007/07/the-video
Post by: erik the bold on July 19, 2007, 07:49:03 AM
Yes but that time in the movie when River....
Ah nevermind.
Ah nevermind.
I thought that was pretty cool myself.
"I am a leaf on the wind - watch how I soar." (it was in the trailer so I think I am safe.)
"Are you all right?" "I ate a............."
Post by: Fjolnirsson on July 19, 2007, 11:02:00 AM
Firefly/Serenity footage, set against Waren Zevon's "Renegade". Good stuff.
Post by: Strings on July 19, 2007, 03:20:21 PM
Post by: Silver Bullet on August 09, 2007, 07:23:08 PM
Hope I'm not posting this too late (I worked late tonight and just got home), but for some reason the east coast and midwest folks go to bed a couple hours early !
Post by: Silver Bullet on August 24, 2007, 06:49:34 PM
Quote
I actually started that one.
Maybe my favorite Firefly thread; shiny !
A few days ago the Collectors Edition of Serenity went on sale. Same as the first Serenity DVD, but with about 60 more minute of extra special features, plus optional commentary from several of the actors during the movie.
Post by: freakazoid on August 24, 2007, 08:39:22 PM
On the topic of if there is an anti-Christian bias. I am surprised that no one pointed out how River also went crazy about how it was impossible for Books hair to be poofed out like it was. I thought that that was showing how she wasn't able to fully grasp things, which would include the Bible.
Just did a look up on wiki and found this interesting,
Quote
A three-issue comic book miniseries titled Serenity: Those Left Behind was written by Joss Whedon and Brett Matthews, illustrated by Will Conrad and Laura Martin, and published by Dark Horse Comics. It serves as a link between the final episode of the series ("Objects in Space") and the film Serenity. Each issue featured three different covers, depicting one of the nine main characters. In turn, each version had a different illustrator, including Joe Quesada, Bryan Hitch, Tim Bradstreet, John Cassaday and Jo Chen. The first issue was published in July 2005, and the final one appeared in September of the same year. The story focuses on the crew of Serenity taking a salvage job from Badger following a botched theft on a backwater planet, and the pursuit of River by the ominous blue-gloved men. The story is considered part of the Firefly canon and bridges the television show and the movie. The comics quickly sold out on release and both #1 and #2 issues went to second printings. A compilation trade paperback was released in January 2006.
It has been recently confirmed that Joss Whedon will re team with Brett Matthews to write Serenity: Better Days for Dark Horse comics to be released in the fall of 2007 as we see what happens when a heist goes right and the crew finds themselves on easy street. "This new story will take place in the 'Firefly' years i.e., everyone's alive," says Whedon. "Basically, they pull off a heist and everything doesn't go completely wrong. This, needless to say, has never happened, and it's about how they deal with success."[cite this quote]
It has been recently confirmed that Joss Whedon will re team with Brett Matthews to write Serenity: Better Days for Dark Horse comics to be released in the fall of 2007 as we see what happens when a heist goes right and the crew finds themselves on easy street. "This new story will take place in the 'Firefly' years i.e., everyone's alive," says Whedon. "Basically, they pull off a heist and everything doesn't go completely wrong. This, needless to say, has never happened, and it's about how they deal with success."[cite this quote]
I thought that this was pretty funny,
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"Basically, they pull off a heist and everything doesn't go completely wrong. This, needless to say, has never happened, and it's about how they deal with success."
lol
Post by: Silver Bullet on August 25, 2007, 09:20:59 AM
Post by: freakazoid on August 25, 2007, 02:28:14 PM