Type "Boog," get shot

[AZRedhawk44]

Yes, it's still early in the investigation.  But...

Villifying "boog"ers, killing them in their sleep.

This guy had no prior criminal history.  Killed by what appears to be preemptive shots into the house at 4:30 AM by police serving a "high risk" warrant.

News digs up troll fodder regarding Boogaloo and Threeper stuff, and uses ADL as some sort of "authority" on the meaning of that.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/lawyer-man-asleep-police-fired-house-killing-69587748

[Pb]

Good grief.

[Ben]

There may well be more to this story. If there is not, I'm good with a murder charge for the shooter, and other accomplice related charges for the other masked home invaders that did this.

[RoadKingLarry]

The cops keep that kind of *expletive deleted*it up and them going home safely at the end of their shift is gonna start getting less likely.

[BobR]

He described Lemp as a libertarian who frequented the 4chan and Reddit message boards, sites popular with internet trolls.

Interesting take on those two web sites, I would bet plenty of their staff also visit those sites. Does that make the news organization trolls?

bob

[Hawkmoon]

Friends said they never heard Lemp espouse any anti-government rhetoric. Sandler said Lemp was not a part of any anti-government or militia-type group.

“He was pro-America and supported wholeheartedly all the protections of the Constitution,” she said.

That's all the justification they needed. We can't allow people to wander around supporting that musty old Constitution ...

[dogmush]

It sure does seem sometimes that cops in some cities are running down the "How do we make the people here treat us like enemies?" checklist, and not missing a step.

[bedlamite]

Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog Boog

ETA: Nope, still here.

[RoadKingLarry]

It sure does seem sometimes that cops in some cities are running down the "How do we make the people here treat us like enemies?" checklist, and not missing a step.

If that is their goal I'm having a hard time of thinking of things they could do to be more effective.

[Jamisjockey]

It sure does seem sometimes that cops in some cities are running down the "How do we make the people here treat us like enemies?" checklist, and not missing a step.

Eric Garner died over loose cigarettes.  Escalation of force is the only thing the police have tactically.  Nothing is so trivial the police won't kill you for it.

[dogmush]

Eric Garner died over loose cigarettes.  Escalation of force is the only thing the police have tactically.  Nothing is so trivial the police won't kill you for it.

The operative question that should be being asked is: What is so trivial that we will kill them over it?

I know that sounds all "Boogaloo" but it's not.  When the majority of society believes in a fair rule of law enforced by a mostly fair police force that makes some mistakes, being law abiding and not resisting police is a moral choice.  Something "Good" people do.

When the majority of people don't believe in a fair rule of law, and think the police are out to serve themselves and kill people for convenience, being law abiding and not resisting police is more of a tactical choice.

We aren't there yet, but we sure seem to be slipping that way.  "*expletive deleted*ck the police" is no where near as edgy and criminal a sentiment as it was when Ice-T said it.

[Ben]

I know that sounds all "Boogaloo" but it's not.  When the majority of society believes in a fair rule of law enforced by a mostly fair police force that makes some mistakes, being law abiding and not resisting police is a moral choice.  Something "Good" people do.

Also, when it gets to the point that you're not even being given a chance of resisting or being law-abiding, because you're killed in your sleep...

[dogmush]

That's actually one of the conversations I had with an anti gun person not that long ago:

Them: "If we outlaw assault rifles the cops will come to your house and get them.  You may think you're all cool, but when they kick in your door you will give up and let them take your guns!"

Me: "If the cops are going to peoples houses and kicking in doors, what on earth makes you think gun owners would wait for them come to our houses?"

[Jamisjockey]

That's why red flag laws are so insidious.  They do it little by little.   Boiling water and the frog and all that.

[cordex]

The story as presented by the decedent’s family and attorney is not good.  That said, I will hold off on voting from the rooftops for the moment because sometimes “hands up don’t shoot” isn’t exactly what happened.

[Ben]

The story as presented by the decedent’s family and attorney is not good.  That said, I will hold off on voting from the rooftops for the moment because sometimes “hands up don’t shoot” isn’t exactly what happened.

I also want to make sure the story at the link is not biased / inaccurate in some way. However,  I continue to believe cops do themselves no favors showing up anywhere with their faces covered.

[MechAg94]

The story as presented by the decedent’s family and attorney is not good.  That said, I will hold off on voting from the rooftops for the moment because sometimes “hands up don’t shoot” isn’t exactly what happened.

I agree with that, but it doesn't look good.  If there is camera footage, hopefully, the police will release it immediately.

I would give that police department more credit if they hadn't initially claimed the dead guy confronted police rather than being shot in his sleep.  Lying removes all benefit of the doubt.  Makes them accessories after the fact IMO.

[MechAg94]

It is also odd that ABC news, while accusing police of murdering someone in their sleep, also goes to a lot of trouble to paint the victim as an extremist militia member. 

[Andiron]

It is also odd that ABC news, while accusing police of murdering someone in their sleep, also goes to a lot of trouble to paint the victim as an extremist militia member. 

Which,  last I checked, might be tacky but is absolutely legal.

[Ben]

Which,  last I checked, might be tacky but is absolutely legal.

Three Percenters around here really aren't even considered a militia group - more of a "patriot movement" group. They're practically mainstream.

[AZRedhawk44]

The other side of the story begins.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-03-17/police-man-shot-by-officer-had-rifle-ignored-commands

Not sure how you get a conviction that prohibits you from owning firearms until 30, as mentioned in the article.  That's pretty weird.

Still it's another situation where no-knocks are clearly being abused.  The crimes he's accused of are not the type of crimes where you can destroy evidence (guns don't flush down the toilet very well), and he's not going to hurt anyone in the house.

I'm still very interested in body cam footage.  Supposedly multiple eyewitness reports support the original assertion that police fired into the house before announcing themselves or breaching the door.

[Hawkmoon]

Which,  last I checked, might be tacky but is absolutely legal.

Which? Being in a militia, or shooting people while they sleep? 

[Jamisjockey]

The other side of the story begins.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-03-17/police-man-shot-by-officer-had-rifle-ignored-commands

Not sure how you get a conviction that prohibits you from owning firearms until 30, as mentioned in the article.  That's pretty weird.

Still it's another situation where no-knocks are clearly being abused.  The crimes he's accused of are not the type of crimes where you can destroy evidence (guns don't flush down the toilet very well), and he's not going to hurt anyone in the house.

I'm still very interested in body cam footage.  Supposedly multiple eyewitness reports support the original assertion that police fired into the house before announcing themselves or breaching the door.

Just like Waco, some basic police work means you probably have a better chance of snagging the guy on his way to buy smokes or when he's out for a run.  But how the *expletive deleted*ck can you use your shiny cool automatic weapons if you don't serve a no-knock at 4am on someone?

[Ben]

Just like Waco, some basic police work means you probably have a better chance of snagging the guy on his way to buy smokes or when he's out for a run.  But how the *expletive deleted*ck can you use your shiny cool automatic weapons if you don't serve a no-knock at 4am on someone?

Yup. They always claim it's more dangerous to bystanders to grab someone in public. I remember a case, might be 15 or more years ago in an LA suburb, where they watched a guy before they snagged him. He walked his dog every day at the same time in his upscale neighborhood of closely built tract homes. Instead of grabbing him then, they waited till he got home, surrounded the place with SWAT, and the guy shot back at them. End result was a barrage of bullets, smoke and CS gas that caught the house on fire and severely damaged the homes on both sides if IIRC, and I think the guy died.

But why snag a guy walking out of the store with his arms full of groceries when you can do the scene from an action film?

Regardless of what the guy in the OP did, unless there is yet more information, he was still shot in bed.

[dogmush]

The other side of the story begins.

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2020-03-17/police-man-shot-by-officer-had-rifle-ignored-commands

Not sure how you get a conviction that prohibits you from owning firearms until 30, as mentioned in the article.  That's pretty weird.

Still it's another situation where no-knocks are clearly being abused.  The crimes he's accused of are not the type of crimes where you can destroy evidence (guns don't flush down the toilet very well), and he's not going to hurt anyone in the house.

I'm still very interested in body cam footage.  Supposedly multiple eyewitness reports support the original assertion that police fired into the house before announcing themselves or breaching the door.

I flat don't believe them.  Too many weasel words in that police statement.

"He was in front of the door when we entered the room"

Cool, where was he when you shot him?

"He ignored commands to show his hands when we entered the house."

Where was he when you shot him?

"He had a rifle when we got to his bedroom"

Where. Was. He. When. You. Shot. Him.

The department’s statement does not specify when Lemp was fatally shot.

I'm going to think they shot him through his window, as the witness said, and then before he died he got his gun and got ready to repel the borders that had just shot him.  And when the people that had shot him ordered him to throw up his hands and surrender, he declined.  Honestly, kinda on his side there.

If the police have evidence that the eyewitness is lying, they should present it forthwith.  Otherwise, I tend to go with what seems to be the majority case when No-knocks get someone killed.  The police got trigger happy, and are trying to cover their ass again.

I am of the opinion that at this point in policing in the US, there is never a valid excuse for a no-knock search warrant.  There is not a single instance or crime where the right answer is half-trained yahoo's *expletive deleted*ing up a dynamic entry.