Author Topic: USAF looking into beater jets (Read 6731 times)

Blakenzy · « **on:** July 23, 2016, 09:43:31 AM »

So... either the F35 do-all, be-all is so convoluted it has been deemed impractical and urgently needs to be supplemented with cheaper aircraft (or entirely replaced if the entire USAF budget hadn't been hogged up by the F35 project to begin with)

Or... they are planning on equipping ~~ISIS~~ moderate rebels with a low key air force.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/air-force-may-buy-this-cheap-jet-2016-7?yptr=yahoo

Fly320s · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2016, 09:51:54 AM »

That Scorpion looks like the Javelin personal jet that never really got off the ground.

Blakenzy · « **Reply #2 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:28:16 AM »

I have always wondered why the high performance "personal jet" concept isn't more popular. I mean you can only get so much out of sports cars...

HankB · « **Reply #3 on:** July 23, 2016, 11:29:21 AM »

Quote from: Blakenzy on July 23, 2016, 10:28:16 AM

I have always wondered why the high performance "personal jet" concept isn't more popular. I mean you can only get so much out of sports cars...

The number of people who have the financial means to purchase, say, a $200,000 Lamborghini, a $400,000+ Ford GT, or even a $1,500,000 Bugatti is much larger than the number who can purchase, maintain, insure, and operate a $65,000,000 Gulfstream G650.

And it's easier to get a driver's license than a jet pilot's license.

Fly320s · « **Reply #4 on:** July 23, 2016, 11:39:19 AM »

What he said.

Airplanes are stupid expensive. Even a basic twin-engine plane is around $1m these days.

tokugawa · « **Reply #5 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:29:31 PM »

Quote from: Blakenzy on July 23, 2016, 10:28:16 AM

I have always wondered why the high performance "personal jet" concept isn't more popular. I mean you can only get so much out of sports cars...

One, because you can't just buy it and drive away- it takes a lot of training, and there are no "special" standards for those who can't hack the study.
And two, if they could buy it, take 10 hours of training and go, half would be dead in the first few minutes, another half dead by the end of the fuel load, and most of the rest gone by days end.
It's too bad, in a way, because we could use a lot less wealthy idiots in this country.

French G. · « **Reply #6 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:30:46 PM »

Airplane cheap. Stupid flight hours are expensive. Now pay the nice jet mechanic.

dogmush · « **Reply #7 on:** July 23, 2016, 12:55:38 PM »

There are "experimental" homebuilt jets in existence, but the regs that let them be cheap and have a cheap airworthiness certificate also require people to spend a lot of time building them. A lot more work than just buying an exotic car.

If Ultralights weren't limited to 55 kts and 5 gals of fuel, I expect you'd see some turbine powered ones.

Fly320s · « **Reply #8 on:** July 23, 2016, 01:14:56 PM »

And a weight limit.

HankB · « **Reply #9 on:** July 23, 2016, 01:39:06 PM »

Quote from: Fly320s on July 23, 2016, 11:39:19 AM

Airplanes are stupid expensive. Even a basic twin-engine plane is around $1m these days.

Ouch.

Back when I was attending high school in Chicago, one of my teachers (taught Russian and Physics) owned a Beechcraft Baron - she and her husband used to fly it down to Florida to their vacation house on extended weekends.

In those days, I believe the price was a "mere" $85,000 . . .

Fly320s · « **Reply #10 on:** July 23, 2016, 01:55:41 PM »

New and lightly used Barons are about 1 million. Older, thoroughly used, start at $200k.

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Multi+Engine+Piston&make=BEECHCRAFT&model_group=BEECHCRAFT+58+BARON+SERIES&s-type=aircraft

agricola · « **Reply #11 on:** July 23, 2016, 02:29:26 PM »

that Scorpion looks like the offspring of a Hawk and a F/A-18

Unisaw · « **Reply #12 on:** July 23, 2016, 04:45:45 PM »

This article says that the USAF is certifying the Scorpion to improve its export prospects.

http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/2016/07/21/air-force-scorpion-textron-foreign-military-commerical-sales-international-airworthiness-certify/87382706/

dogmush · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2016, 05:17:27 PM »

FWIW, there is actually a growing market in "sporting" jets as rich men's toys.

Led, as one would expect, by ex Soviet stuff.

MiG 21, $150k (in Poland)

MiG 21 in the US, Flying, with spare engine $250k

Best yet:

MiG 29, Certified and flying in the US, $4.6M

I'd expect that the cost per flight hour and cost of parts for those would make the purchase cost seem trivial, but if your Bugatti has gotten boring, and you want something no one else at the executive airport has, a MiG would be pretty cool.

just Warren · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2016, 08:15:43 PM »

If the buyer is not competent MiG will end up meaning Moron in Ground

Boomhauer · « **Reply #15 on:** July 23, 2016, 08:33:07 PM »

Quote from: Blakenzy on July 23, 2016, 10:28:16 AM

I have always wondered why the high performance "personal jet" concept isn't more popular. I mean you can only get so much out of sports cars...

No market

Plus the ones who can afford it are buying warbirds which are way cooler

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #16 on:** July 24, 2016, 12:52:13 AM »

Quote from: tokugawa on July 23, 2016, 12:29:31 PM

One, because you can't just buy it and drive away- it takes a lot of training, and there are no "special" standards for those who can't hack the study.
And two, if they could buy it, take 10 hours of training and go, half would be dead in the first few minutes, another half dead by the end of the fuel load, and most of the rest gone by days end.
It's too bad, in a way, because we could use a lot less wealthy idiots in this country.

I'm failing to see the down side.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #17 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:19:43 PM »

Quote from: dogmush on July 23, 2016, 05:17:27 PM

FWIW, there is actually a growing market in "sporting" jets as rich men's toys.

Led, as one would expect, by ex Soviet stuff.

MiG 21, $150k (in Poland)

MiG 21 in the US, Flying, with spare engine $250k

Best yet:

MiG 29, Certified and flying in the US, $4.6M

I'd expect that the cost per flight hour and cost of parts for those would make the purchase cost seem trivial, but if your Bugatti has gotten boring, and you want something no one else at the executive airport has, a MiG would be pretty cool.

Michael Dorn, the actor who played the Klingon "Worf" in STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION atleast at one time owned and flew IIRC a MiG 17.

roo_ster · « **Reply #18 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:28:21 PM »

Quote from: TommyGunn on July 24, 2016, 03:19:43 PM

Michael Dorn, the actor who played the Klingon "Worf" in STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION atleast at one time owned and flew IIRC a MiG 17.

OK, I finally feel some respect for Worf.

French G. · « **Reply #19 on:** July 24, 2016, 03:45:01 PM »

Well, the FAA doesn't care for live ejection seats so you better have Klingon balls to fly a single engine jet warbird. The ATAC Hawker- Hunters and Kfirs I have been around have live seats but they are registered as experimental aircraft.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #20 on:** July 24, 2016, 07:33:48 PM »

Quote from: TommyGunn on July 24, 2016, 03:19:43 PM

Michael Dorn, the actor who played the Klingon "Worf" in STAR TREK THE NEXT GENERATION atleast at one time owned and flew IIRC a MiG 17.

Hmmmm. Wiki article said he has a T-33 and a F-86 Sabre.......I Coulda sworn he had a MiG.

Fitz · « **Reply #21 on:** July 24, 2016, 11:22:12 PM »

I want a Sonex jet cuz reasons

http://www.sonexaircraft.com/subsonex/index.html

MillCreek · « **Reply #22 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:53:44 AM »

^^^Are there any other commercial/homebuilt small jets like this on the market? I remember seeing the BD-5J at local airshows years ago, but I have not seen one for quite some time.

Mannlicher · « **Reply #23 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:35:20 PM »

insanity is the term that best describes how the AF and the Navy look at, purchase, and use their planes.

HankB · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2016, 03:42:19 PM »

I'm sort of surprised that nobody has come up with a kit/commercial version of a single seat sport jet modeled on the WWII German V-1 . . . maybe landing gear is too expensive, or the engine is hard to throttle?

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Author Topic: USAF looking into beater jets (Read 6731 times)