Author Topic: On big guns and mag capacity.  (Read 8340 times)

BMacklem

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2011, 07:34:50 AM »

Crazy people suck.  Whether they have 33 round Glock mags, or a pen to write legislation.


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BMacklem

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2011, 07:55:30 AM »
And let's look at what's been going on lately.
How about the armed service guy and his wife coming out of the movie theater recently? several dozen attackers was the number he had to basically face alone for a while.
Then here in Milwaukee there was yet another mall disturbance comprised of a hundred or more little darlin' angels.
I won't feel great about only having 15 and two reloads.
And that'll only be once we get CC here in Wisconsin (soon very soon).

JonnyB

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2011, 09:18:49 AM »
I was once telling my daughter-in-law that I have 27 rounds (13+1 and a spare 13) of ammo when carrying the Browning HiPower but only 15 if I have the 1911 on my belt.

"Why would you need so much?", she asked.

My answer was something like "I'd sure hate to need 16 shots when all I have is 15. Even if I never need 27, they're nice to have along."

My at-home car gun is the BHP with 2 spare mags - 40 rounds total. If I'm going to be far from home, a 16-inch AR is in the trunk, along with 5 or 6, 30-round mags (and maybe a few extra boxes of 20 rounds each).

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Jamisjockey

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2011, 09:50:28 AM »
Riddle me this.

In numerous other shootings, people cowered in fear while gunmen calmly reloaded their weapons.  5, 10, or 33 round magazines don't matter much if nobody does anything to stop you.

It was only that several people took upon the gunman during his reload.

  He could have calmly reloaded several times were it not for the actions of free citizens.  I would have rather him be riddled with bullets after his first shots, but considering the level of sheepdom apparent across the land, even having people disarm him when his weapon ran dry is a step up from the normal.
JD

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2011, 09:59:19 AM »
I'm gonna have to borrow this and spread it far and wide across Facebook if you don't mind.

Feel free.  Public forum, and all that. 

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roo_ster

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2011, 10:02:02 AM »
Yep, at least in most cases I've ever hear of. 

Had a couple/three hours to chat with Charl vanWike.  He was the guy that shot back at the Marxist terrorists that attacked his church in South Africa right at the end of the apartheid era (St James Massacre for those that want to Google it).  They had AK's (with da-switch), grenades, etc.  There was IIRC 5 of them, plus a getaway driver or two.  Charl was the only parishoner that was armed.  All he had was a 5-shot snub nose .38.  Didn't even have a re-load.  Terrorists ran screaming like little girls when he shot back.

Read his book.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2011, 10:02:58 AM »
Riddle me this.

In numerous other shootings, people cowered in fear while gunmen calmly reloaded their weapons.  5, 10, or 33 round magazines don't matter much if nobody does anything to stop you.

It was only that several people took upon the gunman during his reload.

  He could have calmly reloaded several times were it not for the actions of free citizens.  I would have rather him be riddled with bullets after his first shots, but considering the level of sheepdom apparent across the land, even having people disarm him when his weapon ran dry is a step up from the normal.

There are a lot of things wrong with this country.

There are a lot of things wrong with Arizona.

But one of the things that works right, in this State and several others like it, is people stand up when they're knocked down.  You may catch them by surprise, but they'll catch up and do their damnedest to make it right.  That includes gunfire.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

lee n. field

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2011, 10:14:32 AM »
Read his book.

+1

Would help if spelt right.  Charl van Wyk, Shooting Back.
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Northwoods

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2011, 11:18:00 AM »
+1

Would help if spelt right.  Charl van Wyk, Shooting Back.

Picky, picky.  Been a while since I'd talked to him.

I do get the newsletter he sends out a few times a year.  He was attacked by bandits while out trying to do his missionary work.  Shot back at them too.  He said witnesses indicated he'd hit at least one of them.  Again, SEVERAL attackers ran screaming like little girls when ONE dude stands his ground and fights back.

Truth of the matter is that simply shooting back at all is, in the vast majority of cases, far more important than caliber, mag capacity, or even marksmanship.  In the church attack, Charl hit 1 of the terrorists (non-life threatening wound) from a distance beyond what most of us would consider ideal for a snubbie .38.  His other 4 shots totally missed.  They still ran.  In the bandit attack he had a "better" gun (don't remember but it was an auto-loader, so probably a 9x19 of some sort).  No idea how many shots he fired, but again, only hit one attacker.  They ran again.

The biggest issues are to A) Have a gun of any description, and B) Have the courage to stand up and actually shoot back.  Even a lowly .38 snubbie with standard pressure ammo, and no reloads can be quite effective.  More is better, sure.  But not strictly necessary when dealing with cowards like Laughner, or common criminals, or even most terrorists.  Determined, military trained/disciplined attackers are a different story of course.
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AJ Dual

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2011, 12:51:17 PM »
That's very true. Most crime is an opportunistic path-of-least-resistance enterprise. (otherwise they'd work for a living) Something like 80-90% of all defensive use of firearms happen without so much as a shot fired.

However, the deterrence factor equation for someone who is personally bent on revenge, insane, or political/religious terrorism will be very different.

Jared Loughner, IMO, would only have been stopped by a CNS shot or a mobility-kill to the spine, pelvis, or arm. 
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zxcvbob

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2011, 01:10:09 PM »
I'm looking for a 20-or-more mag for my little Keltec p3at.  (that might actually tame the recoil too)

I bought one 30-round mag (or maybe it's 32 or 33, I don't remember) for my BHP a few years ago.  Wish I had bought several of them because I haven't seen any since.
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AJ Dual

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2011, 01:20:21 PM »
Such a beast does not exist.

They do sell extended 9 round magazines though. http://keltecweapons.com/product/p3at-37-9rnd-magazine/

You'd have to buy two of them, saw the feed lips off the bottom one, get the grip extender and base-plate off the other, and braze them together. And also link the two springs together onto one follower. Or browse Wolf gunsprings site for something compatible that has enough lift to feed all the rounds.

You might get 16-18 rounds out of that.

After the whole exercise is done, not counting all your time to test fit, and make sure the inside is smooth and won't hang up on the joints in the metal etc., it's probably easier to just adapt to carrying a Glock 26, and carrying a spare Glock 17 magazine with the +2 extender floorplate.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2011, 01:26:21 PM »
I'm looking for a 20-or-more mag for my little Keltec p3at.  (that might actually tame the recoil too)

I bought one 30-round mag (or maybe it's 32 or 33, I don't remember) for my BHP a few years ago.  Wish I had bought several of them because I haven't seen any since.

I think something about 12-15 rounds for a backup mag for the P3AT would be about right.  I'll take three or so when they come out.

JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2011, 01:42:31 PM »
I've thought about incorporating a BUG to my daily CCW routine. Even bought a MP 9C or could us the sig 380 I have. What stops me is my interactions with the POPO for the past several years. Mind you that all were traffic stops, most of which were of a fishing nature (last one was the night time seat belt enforcement crap). Explaining that I am a permit holder and armed is scary enough, when you play the lottery of which cop you are interacting with is cool or is an ass, explaining a BUG is asking for a long encounter IMO and a waste of my time on the side of the road. After this AZ shooting, the popo will be frothing at the mouth about "officer safety".
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2011, 01:44:08 PM »
Depends on the state and po-po culture, BMOZ.
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2011, 01:51:32 PM »
I agree. Finding a state and culture that won't harass you for doing something legally is another animal all together.
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Fly320s

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2011, 02:27:07 PM »
I agree. Finding a state and culture that won't harass you for doing something legally is another animal all together.
Is your home state a "must notify" state?
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2011, 02:53:32 PM »
Yes it is. It wasn't that way to begin with. Arkansas a few years ago changed that. State police, who oversee the CCW permits, along with the legislature changed it from upon demand to shall notify. Sneaky process of putting the change in the back of the newspaper, buried within the bankruptcy filings. No one objected and bam, you shall notify.

One more reason we are about to move out of AR.
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MechAg94

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2011, 03:12:26 PM »
Texas is a "must notify" state, but I think the penalty is pretty weak.  I have been asked what I carry before.  The closest to harassment was a Metro cop in Houston who asked me to get out and show him where I carried, but he didn't disarm me.  I was wearing a T-shirt and shorts and had a little Kahr P9 in a belly band high above my belt line.  I think he just couldn't believe I was carrying. 
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Tallpine

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 03:17:05 PM »
Quote
a Metro cop in Houston who asked me to get out and show him where I carried

Wonder if he/she thought you were carrying 007 style  :O
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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2011, 03:25:30 PM »
Michigan is a must notify state, first offense is a civil infraction with a $500 fine and a six month CPL suspension, any subsequent offense within three years of the first are $1,000 fines and result in your permit being revoked.

Most of the penalties for violating the terms of your CPL are quite harsh, some are felonies.
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Battle Monkey of Zardoz

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2011, 03:46:40 PM »
I'll research a list of states that do not require you to notify.

Right now we are looking at Arizona (northern) or New Mexico to move. Regardless, we are leaving AR, just waiting to see if I progress up the oilfield ladder, to choose a better place to take up residence.
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zxcvbob

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2011, 03:49:31 PM »
Wonder if he/she thought you were carrying 007 style  :O
OK, what is "007 style"?  (maybe I don't want to know)
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Tallpine

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2011, 04:06:37 PM »
OK, what is "007 style"?  (maybe I don't want to know)

Not a fan of the movies, but my understanding was that Bond had a special "behind the zipper" holster.
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Tallpine

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Re: On big guns and mag capacity.
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2011, 04:07:46 PM »
I'll research a list of states that do not require you to notify.

Right now we are looking at Arizona (northern) or New Mexico to move. Regardless, we are leaving AR, just waiting to see if I progress up the oilfield ladder, to choose a better place to take up residence.

North Dakota is (or was?) having a lot of new oilfield activity.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin