Author Topic: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."  (Read 8309 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« on: August 08, 2011, 09:59:21 PM »
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=AMM-4964

Say it ain't so.  The stupid can't possibly be this strong.
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Jim147

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2011, 10:04:01 PM »
Why would anyone want 255 grain FMJ?

No need to discuss stupid with their name right in the link.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2011, 10:04:46 PM »
Probably be a top seller.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2011, 10:07:40 PM »
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=AMM-4964

Say it ain't so.  The stupid can't possibly be this strong.

Dude, it's Cheaper Than Dirt. They specialize in retailing stupid.

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Angel Eyes

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2011, 10:09:46 PM »
Sounds like semi-clever marketing.  Give the product a catchy name and sell it for twice what it would normally.
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zxcvbob

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2011, 10:16:52 PM »
A dollar a pop is kind of expensive for .410 buckshot loads and .45 Colt, but not totally outrageous.
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seeker_two

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2011, 10:23:08 PM »
I see your Jury and raise you......

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4631-1.html

....it shoots through schools......



 :facepalm:


....and this from the guy who just ordered new cell-phone pouches from CTD today....
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 10:45:19 PM »
The stupid can't possibly be this strong.

You mean how they call it .45 Long Colt? Sadly, people persist in this error.
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brimic

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 11:28:35 PM »
Quote
I see your Jury and raise you......

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM4631-1.html

....it shoots through schools......

I'll never buy DRT ammo.
One of the owners of that company came onto a hunting forum a few years back and pretty much told everyone there that they were a bunch of toothless hillbillies if we didn't believe the claim that their ammo will shoot through steel plates with out deformation and then have 'devastating expansion' when it hits flesh.   What a moron. ;/
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Boomhauer

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2011, 11:33:34 PM »
I'll never buy DRT ammo.
One of the owners of that company came onto a hunting forum a few years back and pretty much told everyone there that they were a bunch of toothless hillbillies if we didn't believe the claim that their ammo will shoot through steel plates with out deformation and then have 'devastating expansion' when it hits flesh.   What a moron. ;/

Those idiots (the DRT people)...

Modern hollowpoints are THE way to go for ammo for shooting people...



Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

Scout26

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 03:34:44 AM »
"The Jury" is on back order.   Proving once again that P.T. Barnum was all wet.  There isn't a sucker born every minute, there's thousands of them.

I'd like to see a battle between the Extreme Shock!!!tm ammo guys and the Dynamic Research Technologytm guys. 


Just the marketing guys first.

In a cage. 

A very, very, very small cage....   
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 04:51:13 AM »
They should be made to use their own products.
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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 08:19:15 AM »
They should be made to use their own products.

As suppositories.
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birdman

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 08:32:03 AM »
Those idiots (the DRT people)...

Modern hollowpoints are THE way to go for ammo for shooting people...





Interestingly enough, the hollow tip on modern sniper bullets (non-mono metal ones) isn't their for terminal ballistics--a Sierra matching BTHP barely expands at all--it's there to make the round more accurate due to both c.g. setback and allowing more symmetrical shockwave formation at the tip in a non-lathe turned bullet.  (it's very easy to mass produce a flat tip perpendicular to the axis, but very difficult to produce a perfectly symmetrical point. 

seeker_two

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 10:24:24 AM »
Modern hollowpoints are THE way to go for ammo for shooting people...

Depends on the situation.....FMJ ammo will perform better than HP when deep penetration is needed.....esp. if you have to shoot a hole through something in order to shoot a hole in something.....and FMJ ammo is a much better choice for low-powered pocket pistols from .25ACP to .380ACP......

Choose the right tool for the right job.....  :cool:
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lee n. field

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2011, 10:30:01 AM »
Quote
Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
The stupid can't possibly be this strong.

Judge, Jury.  The next step in the marketing train, I'd hate to have to defend in court.
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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2011, 10:41:38 AM »
Interestingly enough, the hollow tip on modern sniper bullets (non-mono metal ones) isn't their for terminal ballistics--a Sierra matching BTHP barely expands at all--it's there to make the round more accurate due to both c.g. setback and allowing more symmetrical shockwave formation at the tip in a non-lathe turned bullet.  (it's very easy to mass produce a flat tip perpendicular to the axis, but very difficult to produce a perfectly symmetrical point. 

I'm talking about for pistols. Real pistols, not dinky little .25s.
Quote from: Ben
Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

Quote from: bluestarlizzard
the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

Quote from: Balog
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! AND THROW SOME STEAK ON THE GRILL!

AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2011, 07:31:25 PM »
I'm talking about for pistols. Real pistols, not dinky little .25s.

*ahem*.....

Lawdog might have something to say about dinky little .25s....

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/06/darwin-is-rotter.html


Oh, and there's a class 3 beverage alert for this story....  Unless your computer/keyboard/laptop/monitor/anything within spray range is waterproof, put away the beverages....
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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2011, 07:43:37 PM »
*ahem*.....

Lawdog might have something to say about dinky little .25s....

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2006/06/darwin-is-rotter.html


Oh, and there's a class 3 beverage alert for this story....  Unless your computer/keyboard/laptop/monitor/anything within spray range is waterproof, put away the beverages....

As always, shot placement is king.
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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2011, 10:40:59 PM »
Judge, Jury.  The next step in the marketing train, I'd hate to have to defend in court.

That was the first thing I thought as well.
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Bogie

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2011, 11:55:13 PM »
Uh... Birdman, I'll have to differ on that hollowpoint rifle bullet thing....
 
The reason they have hollow points is that the lead core is inserted into a formed cup, and then swaged into it. The resulting wadcutter-lookin' thing is then "pointed" in another die. The bullets are extracted with a small punch through the front.
 
Really. It's just how they're made. You want a perfect ass-end on the bullet, so that you don't get deflection when it exits the bore. You can do all kinds of things to the pointy end without greatly affecting accuracy, but nick the back of the bullet, and it wants to go sideways at random.
 
As for those 255 grainers? A 255 grain semi-wad-cutter like was pictured would cause a pretty gnarsty wound channel...j
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brimic

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2011, 01:04:56 AM »
Gotta go with what Bogie says...


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birdman

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2011, 08:35:23 AM »
Disagree, in supersonic aero, the tip is more important for accuracy, the base for drap performance.  Yes, that is how they are made, but while it's possible to make a precision point as part of the mfg process, or in aftermarket, there is a reason they make, sell, and precision shooters use meplat trimmers and don't fuss with the base...a precision tip (flat or point) is far more important for accuracy, even if the associated slightly larger tip negatively affects BC.  So, yes, you are correct that it is a side effect of the mfg process, but the same process can be used to create a point (and people have done so), but it is much more difficult to form (and maintain) a precise point than a flat, so for precision (consistency), a meplat (flat) tip is what is used.  Some mfg (lapua) go to the expense of even trimming/forming the meplat in a secondary operation IIRC just for this purpose.   With lathe turned monometal bullets, obtaining a symmetric tip can be dome at effectively no cost to the mfg, so that is why it's done there--while not nearly as much attention is given to the base.

The reason is, side force at supersonic speeds is largely driven by the shock interation, and the angle ofnthe nose shock to the body is fixed at a given speed/atmospheric parameter, so if the tip is asymmetric relative to the centerline, the shock come will be tilted, and with the spin on the bullet, will cause a side force that rotates with the bullet, resulting in an ever-widening spiral.  I can tell you based on actual experiment that this is absolutely observable when I've compared bullets with near-perfect meplats vs those with even slight variations. 

So it comes down to cost...it is possible to create a sharp tip on a drawn jacket, however, the cost of the additional operation would likely double the cost of an already expensive bullet, which, for the long range, large caliber projectiles it would be mainly advantageous for, would put the price roughly equal to lathe turned bullets (e.g. $0.50-0.70 for drawn 338 increasing to $1.2-1.4, which is the price of lathe turned 338)

So it's really a yes and no.

A perfect boat tail isn't to avoid muzzle deflection, (while it does help), it's to approximate a rear low drag profile without a full sears-haack (optimum area rule) shape (the best boat tails are a 10-20% length cut-off S-H shape for drag considerations and to avoid mid-body shocks.

lee n. field

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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2011, 09:42:18 AM »
A dollar a pop is kind of expensive for .410 buckshot loads and .45 Colt, but not totally outrageous.

On par with premium 9mm.
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Re: Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, nonononono..... "The Jury."
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2011, 10:03:10 AM »
So, we've got the Judge, now the Jury... and after the "case" is over. So what comes after? 

Oh boy... we have...

NANCY GRACE!

I promise not to duck.