Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: vaskidmark on April 01, 2015, 06:52:32 PM
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Mandatory water restrictions with a goal of 25% reduction of residential and industrial use. Farmers have goals but not as drastic.
And it's not just Cali - news is saying Old Faithful will dry up, Lake Meade will have NG on duty with orders to shoot on sight anybody with a 5-gallon jerry can, and Cali & Las Vegas a fighting over the rights to collect the Midwest's spring floods.
Wonder who will be the first Congresscritter to order the Navy/Coast Guard north to laso an iceberg or three, regardless of what happens to those polar bears (which are in Canada anyway).
stay safe.
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Well, maybe there shouldn't be a mass population of people in arid climates?
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Well, maybe there shouldn't be a mass population of people in arid climates?
Have the Cossacks herd the kulaks to the cattle cars, Comrade. :police: =D
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I've got a new 900 gallon/min well, so Jerry can kiss my ass. =D
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Have you heard the sjw whining about nestle and california water?
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Maybe now they'll take a closer look at desalination, with the Pacific Ocean right on their doorstep ...
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I've got a new 900 gallon/min well, so Jerry can kiss my ass. =D
Yes, but is that from a fossil aquifer from the time of the dinosaurs?
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Yes, but is that from a fossil aquifer from the time of the dinosaurs?
You can tell because the water tastes like chicken. =D
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An opinion on part of the problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204731804574384731898375624
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And this is how much developed water california gets( the other 1/2 evaporates or runs off)
32,585,100,000,000 gallons
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An opinion on part of the problem
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970204731804574384731898375624
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Not just the delta smelt. The smelt are what make the news, but there are a lot of smaller, but similar diversions. Locally on the county level, due to a federal order, we've been diverting enough water to supply an entire city for a year in order to preserve habitat for around 500 steelhead. That's fine when there's ample water. But of course everyone is talking about skipping showers and letting your lawn go brown, but nobody wants to talk about stopping the water diversions for fish that Darwin has dibs on.
Not that there don't need to be some changes in CA farming. It has always boggled my mind the amount of flood irrigation that takes place in CA, especially when I go to state North and East and see wheelines everywhere. Also almonds are taking a good portion of our water, because as happens every couple of decades, some "money from heaven" crop pops up, and everybody tears out what they had and plants that crop. For the last twenty years, it's been almonds. When it's trees, you're screwed if you can't get water. We have row crops, so it's easy enough to skip a planting if needed for a year. Won't make any money, but won't lose hundreds of acres of trees either.
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On tonight's NBC evening news story about the shortage and California agriculture, they pointed out it takes 11 gallons of water to grow a pound of broccoli, 300 gallons to grow a pound of rice and 2000 gallons to grow a pound of almonds.
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Not just the delta smelt. The smelt are what make the news, but there are a lot of smaller, but similar diversions. Locally on the county level, due to a federal order, we've been diverting enough water to supply an entire city for a year in order to preserve habitat for around 500 steelhead. That's fine when there's ample water. But of course everyone is talking about skipping showers and letting your lawn go brown, but nobody wants to talk about stopping the water diversions for fish that Darwin has dibs on.
Not that there don't need to be some changes in CA farming. It has always boggled my mind the amount of flood irrigation that takes place in CA, especially when I go to state North and East and see wheelines everywhere. Also almonds are taking a good portion of our water, because as happens every couple of decades, some "money from heaven" crop pops up, and everybody tears out what they had and plants that crop. For the last twenty years, it's been almonds. When it's trees, you're screwed if you can't get water. We have row crops, so it's easy enough to skip a planting if needed for a year. Won't make any money, but won't lose hundreds of acres of trees either.
Since you mentioned lawns, I am surprised that hasn't been restricted completely. No non-native or non-arid grasses/plants. I have an aunt in Arizona and they were restricted in their neighborhood from any non-native grass/plants. They basically had rock gardens with cactus. At the least, I would sacrifice the lawn over showers.
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I realize this might be a free market solution and hence illegal in California, but what the real cost of water? Do people/industry/farmers actually pay that in water bills or is it done out of general taxes?
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Since you mentioned lawns, I am surprised that hasn't been restricted completely. No non-native or non-arid grasses/plants. I have an aunt in Arizona and they were restricted in their neighborhood from any non-native grass/plants. They basically had rock gardens with cactus. At the least, I would sacrifice the lawn over showers.
It's jurisdictional, so county by county and city by city and everyone is different. My sister has already been popped for around $400 in fines because her city switched a watering schedule a couple of times already and she didn't catch it. Then once got fined for watering within two days of rain. Ended up turning her timers off and watering manually. But other cities have not had any restrictions, or else don't do any real enforcement.
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I realize this might be a free market solution and hence illegal in California, but what the real cost of water? Do people/industry/farmers actually pay that in water bills or is it done out of general taxes?
Varies a lot. For farming, surface water can be kinda expensive to expensive. In CA, groundwater under your land belongs to you in most areas (though there is legislation going through that may change that), so you just pay for the electricity it takes to get your water pumped out of the ground.
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Have the Cossacks herd the kulaks to the cattle cars, Comrade. :police: =D
:)
Move them all to New York.
People should be smart enough if you and all your friends move to an arid climate, one should not complain or expect help if water becomes limiting.
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Well, maybe there shouldn't be a mass population of people in arid climates?
EEEVIL! EEEVIL!
BURN THE HERETIC!
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Varies a lot. For farming, surface water can be kinda expensive to expensive. In CA, groundwater under your land belongs to you in most areas (though there is legislation going through that may change that), so you just pay for the electricity it takes to get your water pumped out of the ground.
I was thinking also about people in the residential areas and cities. If the water bill was metered and the cost was fairly high, I can see people making their own choices to cut back. Much better that people just decide for themselves what is most important to them.
On the other hand, I don't know that the water is really that expensive. A govt imposed cost isn't necessarily great especially when it just funds more liberal nonsense.
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I was thinking also about people in the residential areas and cities. If the water bill was metered and the cost was fairly high, I can see people making their own choices to cut back. Much better that people just decide for themselves what is most important to them.
On the other hand, I don't know that the water is really that expensive. A govt imposed cost isn't necessarily great especially when it just funds more liberal nonsense.
Most city water is metered. Maybe not in some rural towns, but in most all cities AFAIK. Of course the way it generally works in residential areas is that property owners are billed directly. So as an individual homeowner, you see your bill and adapt to it. Apartment dwellers never see the bill (though of course it's reflected in their rent) as the bill for the complex goes to the property owner.
That said, residential water is fairly cheap. It starts at around $18 per HCF here, with "surcharges" added if you go over a certain amount.
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You can tell because the water tastes like chicken. =D
Water vapor is a devastating greenhouse gas which causes more global warming and extreme weather events than CO2 ever will. You are taking 'fixed' fossil vapors out of the ground and releasing it to the atmosphere. Have you no shame? You are killing the planet!!!
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Most city water is metered. Maybe not in some rural towns, but in most all cities AFAIK. Of course the way it generally works in residential areas is that property owners are billed directly. So as an individual homeowner, you see your bill and adapt to it. Apartment dwellers never see the bill (though of course it's reflected in their rent) as the bill for the complex goes to the property owner.
That said, residential water is fairly cheap. It starts at around $18 per HCF here, with "surcharges" added if you go over a certain amount.
Up where I am, combined water and sewer districts are common. I get a bill for about $ 125 every two months. Of that, about $ 105 is for sewer. My new house that is being built will have its own well and a septic system.
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Up where I am, combined water and sewer districts are common. I get a bill for about $ 125 every two months. Of that, about $ 105 is for sewer. My new house that is being built will have its own well and a septic system.
That's how they did it for years where my rentals are. They just started separating out water as a separate bill a little over a year ago (maybe because of drought restrictions?). The municipal water there is actually handled by a private entity.
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Well, maybe there shouldn't be a mass population of people in arid climates?
The 'problem' isn't the people. 80% of the water used in California is for agriculture. Part of the problem is lack of water restrictions on agricultural use has caused a 'tragedy of the commons' where there's no incentive to NOT use water because any that you don't draw up from the aquifers will simply be drawn up by somebody else. So they're planting water-intensive(but valuable) crops to sell to the rest of us.
Desalination plants are economical for providing water to cities, but not so much for farms.
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The 'problem' isn't the people. 80% of the water used in California is for agriculture. Part of the problem is lack of water restrictions on agricultural use has caused a 'tragedy of the commons' where there's no incentive to NOT use water because any that you don't draw up from the aquifers will simply be drawn up by somebody else. So they're planting water-intensive(but valuable) crops to sell to the rest of us.
Desalination plants are economical for providing water to cities, but not so much for farms.
Sounds like California needs to have a change in agriculture.
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http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/data/rain-soaked-seattle-has-nations-highest-water-bills/
Geez, we pay more for water than most.