Author Topic: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?  (Read 11070 times)

Balog

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Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« on: February 23, 2010, 02:46:46 PM »
Been thinking about a .45acp AR, not as an immediate purchase but for the future. The thing I've been wondering about is the magazines. I'd want a lower that took commonly available and (relatively) inexpensive subgun stick magazines without significantly modifying them. What magazines are reliable and still easy to find? I've heard maybe old grease gun mags?

Aside from that, just thinking about a plain jane 16-18" flat top upper, and a normal lower with perhaps a block or spacer attached so it'll take subgun mags.

Any thoughts or experiences with this type of thing? Seems like an excellent platform for general HD and plinking, good capacity, light assuming you keep it simple, easily adapted to by my wife etc.
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HankB

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 03:05:00 PM »
Who's making .45 ACP ARs? Anyone we've heard of, or some garage shop?

I'd think it would be useful for HD, if reliable; lightweight, low muzzle flash out of the long barrel, less report . . .

If I were going this way, I'd think about a .300 Whisper . . . a marginally stable (tumbles after impact) 240 grain bullet at around 1000 ft/sec is something I wouldn't want to get in front of. I think JD Jones' company (SSK?) originated this setup . . .
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 03:19:30 PM »
there was a shop out of Las Vegas that was doing personal protection 45 cal ARs

heres a nice rig:

http://www.cncguns.com/projects/AR45lower.html

I loved running a HK UMP in 45 for an afternoon
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Balog

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 03:32:13 PM »
Sten magazine? I thought those were 9mm?
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GigaBuist

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 03:44:39 PM »
Sten magazine? I thought those were 9mm?

Correct, which is probably why they refer to it as a modified Sten magazine.  Probably a new follower and tweaked feed lips.

MechAg94

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 04:10:44 PM »
Correct, which is probably why they refer to it as a modified Sten magazine.  Probably a new follower and tweaked feed lips.
Wouldn't it be easier to look at subgun mags that already were designed for 45 ACP?  Just curious. 
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Balog

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 04:12:03 PM »
Who's making .45 ACP ARs? Anyone we've heard of, or some garage shop?

Honestly I just assumed someone was, I've not looked into it closely.


Quote
If I were going this way, I'd think about a .300 Whisper . . . a marginally stable (tumbles after impact) 240 grain bullet at around 1000 ft/sec is something I wouldn't want to get in front of. I think JD Jones' company (SSK?) originated this setup . . .

Easier when a pistol can share ammo with the rifle, from an economics standpoint. ;)

Oly Arms: a local company, but weren't they the ones who first produced a 7.62x39 pistol that got all the cheap steel core x39 banned from import, back in the day?
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AJ Dual

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 04:17:34 PM »
Wouldn't it be easier to look at subgun mags that already were designed for 45 ACP?  Just curious. 

Beyond M3 Grease Gun mags, there aren't many .45 ACP subguns that were ever made. Thompson mags are presumably expensive. And for all I know, perhaps they're unsuitable for some reason. Like too wide for a standard AR lower etc.

7.62x25 always intrigued me as a carbine round. Seems to me like it's in spitting distance of .30 Carbine itself. And it's still relatively cheap.

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Balog

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2010, 04:25:16 PM »
Hmmm, 7.62x25... that's an interesting thought...
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2010, 04:25:36 PM »


Thump thump thump goes the UMP
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 04:29:04 PM »
Quote
I'd want a lower that took commonly available and (relatively) inexpensive subgun stick magazines without significantly modifying them. What magazines are reliable and still easy to find? I've heard maybe old grease gun mags?

You'd better hurry the heck up and get a CavArms Mk-II lower.

The mag well is specially designed to take Glock 21 grease gun magazines.

Edited to fix mistaken info.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 04:41:01 PM by AZRedhawk44 »
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PTK

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 04:33:53 PM »
I would strongly suggest that if you're wanting a .45acp upper, you get a GAS OPERATED, and not blowback, upper. That way, if you want to silence it at some point in the future, you can; otherwise, the noise escaping with the ejecting case is unbearably loud.
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Balog

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 04:45:45 PM »
Unless the ATF goes out of business and the NFA is repealed I won't be getting any suppressors. :/
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Boomhauer

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 04:49:50 PM »
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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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PTK

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2010, 04:53:33 PM »
Unless the ATF goes out of business and the NFA is repealed I won't be getting any suppressors. :/

Why's that? There are various movements to legalize them in CA, as well.  =)
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AJ Dual

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2010, 04:56:14 PM »
Somebody wanted a 7.62x25 upper?

http://www.cncgunsparts.com/ar-15_m-16_762x25_uppers

OMG, that is pure sex.  :O Only a PS90 in 7.62x25 would be better than that.

Why's that? There are various movements to legalize them in CA, as well.  =)

Presumably he does not want the "man in his life", with owning things on the NFA registry.
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seeker_two

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2010, 04:59:18 PM »
Beyond M3 Grease Gun mags, there aren't many .45 ACP subguns that were ever made. Thompson mags are presumably expensive. And for all I know, perhaps they're unsuitable for some reason. Like too wide for a standard AR lower etc.


I'd think the Ingram M-10 .45ACP mags would work well....and Masterpiece Arms is still making the mags....


7.62x25 always intrigued me as a carbine round. Seems to me like it's in spitting distance of .30 Carbine itself. And it's still relatively cheap.



Same here....maybe something like an MP-5 in 7.62x25....make the 10mm look puny in comparison....  :cool:
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PTK

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2010, 05:10:37 PM »
I'd think the Ingram M-10 .45ACP mags would work well....and Masterpiece Arms is still making the mags....


Same here....maybe something like an MP-5 in 7.62x25....make the 10mm look puny in comparison....  :cool:

They ARE? That's odd, since MPA MAC10 clones use grease gun mags.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2010, 05:21:02 PM »
What I want is an FA and suppressed Camp Carbine in .45  >:D


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PTK

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2010, 05:34:04 PM »
What I want is an FA and suppressed Camp Carbine in .45  >:D




They silence FAIRLY well, but not super great. What you could do is get a MAC10 in .45acp, get a slowfire bolt, a wooden stock and grip, and add a properly made silencer and still keep the total cost under $4k or so. And, being open bolt, they are MUCH quieter than a direct blowback.  =)
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vaskidmark

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2010, 05:47:38 PM »
I had an Oly .45APC upper with a mag well that required the use of UZI mags.  Expensive and more rare than hen's teeth even when Oly announced they were making them.  Sold it to the local range for quite a profit.

Still have (you'll need to pry it out of my hands) a Rock River Arms .45APC that takes grease gun mags.  Up to 50 rounds before reloading, instead of 20 out of the UZI mags.  You need a fixed stock to hold the recoil buffer spring.  I use the sproiiiinnnng to set the pace for "rapid" fire - I can crank out maybe 3 rounds per second but that's synchronizing perfectly.  Real-world timing is 2 rounds per second.

Yes, grease gun mags get heavy if you are considering a forced march.  On the other hand, I'm fantastic out to 100 yards with iron sights, scary deadly to 200 with an el-cheapo 3-9x35 scope.

.45APC out of a 16" barrel is devastaing of zombie punkins & watermelons.  There have been a few woodchucks that sort of fell over as opposed to exploding, but they were all out about 100-120 yards.  Did you know 'chucks are not scared by green lasers?  They ought to be.

As a HD impliment it's just like carrying a M16A1 but heavier and slower.  Ballistics By The Inch  http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/45auto.html  says it's a fair round.  I like it because it uses the same round as my EDC pistol - the Downsizer WSP =D   http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229949  be sure to check the Auction Arms alert at the bottom of that thread.  I think I may be the only known owner of one of those beasts. :O

stay safe.

skidmark

PS - anybody going through Richmond, Va who wants to try it out please feel free to let me know.  Bring proof of current health insurance.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2010, 05:51:25 PM »
How could I have neglected the Marlin Camp - i either .45ACP with 1911 mags or in 9mm with S&W mags? :facepalm:

Old-school compared to the AR platform, but just as efficient.

Jamis - where did you fund that?  I want!!

stay safe.

skidmark
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

Balog

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2010, 05:56:12 PM »
Wait, so RRA did make uppers that took grease gun mags?!?! I didn't see any on their website...
Quote from: French G.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Thoughts on pistol caliber AR's?
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2010, 06:03:35 PM »
  Did you know 'chucks are not scared by green lasers?  They ought to be.



Ok.  That just knocked me right into a fit of maniacal giggling.....   My coworkers are looking at me a little funny....
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