Clinton says she'll take the fight to the convention

[MicroBalrog]

Because what is meant by politicians who argue for NICS at gun shows is to eliminate the 'loophole' that allows private sellers who do not deal in firearms for a profit to sell firearms without the NICS.

Once introduced, gun registration will not go away. Look at the futile efforts to do away with the Canadian gun registry.

[Manedwolf]

Um.

NICS is not gun registration. Please review what it is.

[MicroBalrog]

Um.

NICS is not gun registration. Please review what it is.

NICS creates two records. One kept for 24 hours with the agency responsible for the check (FBI, IIRC) and the yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

In the past, there were issues with the agency in question keeping the records rather than destroying them as they should, by law.

[Silver Bullet]

Not what we want to hear, but he is up front about it, and not the biggest issue in the RKBA wars.

It IS.

NICS at gun shows equates gun registration.

Simple as that.

Huh ?  Obama wants to ban CCW nationwide, and Feinstein wants to ban all guns, period.  To me, those are MUCH bigger RKBA issues than gun show registration.

Then again, I only buy some, but not most, of my guns from shows.

[MicroBalrog]

Think of it this way.

Most states allow CCW. Which means that the populations of these states are, by the majority, pro-CCW.

How is Obama going to get public support for this measure?

Where is that going to come FROM?

But total gun registration - that you're likely going to get within the next eight years, no matter who gets elected.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

and in a private sale what form are you concerned about?

[MicroBalrog]

yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

and in a private sale what form are you concerned about?

Did you read my post?

[Balog]

yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

and in a private sale what form are you concerned about?

Gun shows are an excuse. The law they want will ban any private transfer, not just those at gun shows.

And if you don't think 4473's constitute registration, look at what happened in Maryland etc when those tools were running around shooting people at random. And I've heard a lot of reports of F-troopers scanning 4473's en masse.

McCain is far more dangerous, because he'll get a lot of unthinking support from the Fudds because "Republicans are pro-gun." 

[Silver Bullet]

Think of it this way.

Most states allow CCW. Which means that the populations of these states are, by the majority, pro-CCW.

How is Obama going to get public support for this measure?

Where is that going to come FROM?

But total gun registration - that you're likely going to get within the next eight years, no matter who gets elected.

State CCW laws are passed by state congress critters.  Obama's national CCW law would be passed by national congress critters, of which the Democrats have a majority.  Aside from being illegal due to the Second Amendment, I have no doubt the Democrats would try and pass such a law if they thought they had the votes to repeal the Second Amendment.

[MicroBalrog]

State CCW laws are passed by state congress critters.  Obama's national CCW law would be passed by national congress critters, of which the Democrats have a majority.

And do  you think these democrats are going to magically ignore what the voters in their state think about the issue?

[Manedwolf]

State CCW laws are passed by state congress critters.  Obama's national CCW law would be passed by national congress critters, of which the Democrats have a majority.

And do  you think these democrats are going to magically ignore what the voters in their state think about the issue?

Yes? They do it all the time.

[Firethorn]

Republicans have their own issues.  Chief of which is republican peeps are flat out sitting on their hands.  I saw a report somewhere the DNC is out raising the RNC by a factor of 10:1.  If true that represents an unpleasant November.  Meanwhile there are persistent rumors that the republican nomination ain't a done deal.  Who knows; this may well be the election for the peeps have had enough and actually throw all bums, including their own, out.

Yes, but is that money going towards the primary or the final election?  I have the feeling that the 10:1 fund raising right now is more like 5:5:1, Hillary and Obama are both raising 5 times as much money as McCain(at the moment), but as far as war chest goes, last I'd heard Hillary's campain is mostly broke at this point, running the wire fighting Obama.  I figure Obama can't be much better.  Can you see either of them donating their remaining election campaign monies to the other?

So it's more like 0:0:1 for raising money for the actual election.  Not to mention that the democratic donaters will be fairly exhausted by the time the real election rolls around, meaning that the republicans will probably be able to pull in a lot of money fairly quickly.

That doesn't mean that Whichever wins won't be able to have a strong campaign, the support of the party alone will ensure that, but the same is true of the republican party.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if McCain ends up with double the relative amount of money for campaigning.  I see the campaign money being a lot like a reserve lake behind a dam - there's only so much there, you can only pull out so much at one time, but you can pull money out faster than the reserves can build back up.  Right now Hillary and Obama have pretty much emptied out their reserves, McCain's sitting there drawing some money out, building up the active chest while not emptying that reserve or exhausting his supporters.  Right now I figure he's just hanging around trying not to screw anything up.  The democratic candidates are already doing a good job at beating each other up.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

and in a private sale what form are you concerned about?

Did you read my post?

yea and did i misinterpret it? i believe you imagine that a yellow form will be kept somewhere permenantly. i can find no indication this would be the case in a ftf at a gun show. maybe i missed it

[Balog]

yellow form, kept with the dealer permanently.

and in a private sale what form are you concerned about?

Did you read my post?

yea and did i misinterpret it? i believe you imagine that a yellow form will be kept somewhere permenantly. i can find no indication this would be the case in a ftf at a gun show. maybe i missed it

Ever tried to buy a gun in Kalifornia?

Private. Face. To. Face. Transfers. Are. Illegal. Not just at gunshows. Everywhere.

[Sergeant Bob]

And to add to that. Just who is going to be performing these NICS checks for face to face transfers (only at?) gun shows? There will be paperwork involved, and what better paper to use than the one they already use, the 4473? Does anyone think those are just going to magically vanish?

Anyone who thinks McCain (and jeebus I'm tempted to refer to that piece of work as something less than respectfully) is going to protect our gun rights is dreaming.

There is no "Gun Show Loophole", there are only face to face transfers which are not subject to the king's scrutiny. Even if we take McCain at his word, he will allow only FTF transfers between members of your immediate family. All others would have to be performed by an FFL, which is going to involve paperwork, which the FFL is required by current law to keep. That is not going to change no matter what, and sticking your fingers in your ears and saying Lalalalalalalalala! loudly is not going to change anything.

So, in essence, Micro is correct.

Yes, I know we don't have any real choices this election but, at least if one dems gets into office, maybe the spineless repubs in DC might grow a pair. Otherwise, you might as well stick a ring in their noses cause McCain will simply lead them and us straight to gun owners H***.

[Manedwolf]

Yes, I know we don't have any real choices this election but, at least if one dems gets into office, maybe the spineless repubs in DC might grow a pair. Otherwise, you might as well stick a ring in their noses cause McCain will simply lead them and us straight to gun owners H***.

I am not willing to take the risk that putting an antigun, post-American outright Marxist into the highest office in the land will have the desired outcome.

Because if it doesn't, it'd be a LOT worse than an AWB. Taxes on ammo. Taxes on every firearm you own every year, which would include registration, and labeling of people with more than half a dozen as an "armory" for an additional tax and periodic scrutiny. Shutting down of target ranges as health hazards due to lead and other evil things. Bans on "stockpiling" ammo in multifamily buildings "for the children", then bans on stockpiling ammo in a residential zoned area. You don't think the Dems would do it? I do.

[MechAg94]

All the reports I see say that the Republicans in Congress are going to lose big.  They will have less ability to affect what comes out of Congress to the President's desk.  The next President will have to work with Democrats in Congress one way or another. 

What happened to all those pro-gun Democrats everyone was talking about?  Are they still running as pro-gun?

[mek42]

What happened to all those pro-gun Democrats everyone was talking about?  Are they still running as pro-gun?

Yeah, where did all the blue dogs go?  What are the blue dog super-delegates going to do?

[Silver Bullet]

A casual glance at voting records will show that McCain is waaaay more pro-RKBA than Obama or Clinton.

[Sergeant Bob]

A casual glance at voting records will show that McCain is waaaay more pro-RKBA than Obama or Clinton.

But a closer look at John "Close the gunshow loophole and sign an AWB if the right one comes to his desk" McCain will show it's wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-y (kinda sounds like a sheep doesn't it?) closer closer than ya think.

[Silver Bullet]

wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-y (kinda sounds like a sheep doesn't it?)

It does when you do it.

McCain voted against the last AWB.  What makes you think he'd vote for a new one ?  Here's another quote from the NRA interview:

Senator, would you explain the reasons behind your opposition to Bill Clinton's ban on many semi-automatic firearms, that he misleadingly called "assault weapons"?

Of course.  Gun bans don't work, because they only restrict the rights of law-abiding citizens.  Criminals pay no more attention to laws banning guns than they do to laws banning assault, robbery or murder.  In fact, the National Institute of Justice found that the firearms banned by President Clinton were used in less than two percent of all crimes involving firearms -- clear evidence of the ineffectiveness of this law.  I voted against the Clinton gun ban when Congress considered it in 1994 and I voted against efforts to keep that misguided law on the books.  I was pleased to see the law rightfully sunset in 2004, because it represented an arbitrary restriction on the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens.

Think harder before you vote for your buddy Obama.

[Manedwolf]

Obama wants to ban the sale or transfer of any semiautomatic firearm.

Obama wants a national ban on concealed carry for all but retired police, or military.

Can't get much worse than that.

[Sergeant Bob]

Think harder before you vote for your buddy Obama.

That's just a silly statement.

Here, look at this...McCain on Assault Weapons

If you can watch that and say Johnny is a friend to the Second, you might as well just stick your fingers in your ears and shout Lalalalalala I can't hear you!

You can twist his words and equivocate all you want but, what he says is a far cry from opposing an AWB, in addition to the fact that 1994 was a decade and a half ago.

[El Tejon]

Obama's second term will be far worse.

[Silver Bullet]

You can twist his words and equivocate all you want

Equivocate ?  The voting record trumps all rhetoric.