Author Topic: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?  (Read 8586 times)

Manedwolf

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What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« on: June 08, 2008, 02:02:14 PM »
I thought he was a Republican? Hello!

Quote
Charles Krauthammer: Solve nation's gas price woes with a $2 tax

By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

SO NOW WE KNOW: The price point is $4.

At $3 a gallon, Americans just grin and bear it, suck it up, and, while complaining profusely, keep driving like crazy. At $4, it is a world transformed. Americans become rational creatures. Mass-transit ridership is at a 50-year high. Driving is down 4 percent. (Any U.S. decline is something close to a miracle.) Hybrids and compacts are flying off the lots. SUV sales are in free fall.

The wholesale flight from gas guzzlers is stunning in its swiftness, but utterly predictable. Everything has a price point. Remember that "love affair" with SUVs? Love, it seems, has its price too.

America's sudden change in car-buying habits makes suitable mockery of that absurd debate Congress put on last December on fuel efficiency standards. At stake was precisely what miles-per-gallon average would every car company's fleet have to meet by precisely what date.

It was one out-of-a-hat number (35 mpg) compounded by another (by 2020). It involved, as always, dozens of regulations, loopholes and throws at a dartboard. And we already knew from past history what the fleet average number does. When oil is cheap and everybody wants a gas guzzler, fuel efficiency standards force manufacturers to make cars that nobody wants to buy. When gas prices go through the roof, this agent of inefficiency becomes an utter redundancy.

At $4 a gallon, the fleet composition is changing spontaneously and overnight, not over the 13 years mandated by Congress. (Even Stalin had the modesty to restrict himself to five-year plans.) Just Tuesday, GM announced that it would shutter four SUV and truck plants, add a third shift to its compact and midsize sedan plants in Ohio and Michigan, and green light for 2010 the Chevy Volt, an electric hybrid.

Some things, like renal physiology, are difficult. Some things, like Arab-Israeli peace, are impossible. And some things are preternaturally simple. You want more fuel-efficient cars? Don't regulate. Don't mandate. Don't scold. Don't appeal to the better angels of our nature. Do one thing:

Hike the cost of gas until you find the price point.

Unfortunately, instead of hiking the price ourselves by means of a gasoline tax that could be instantly refunded to the American people in the form of lower payroll taxes, we let the Saudis, Venezuelans, Russians and Iranians do the taxing for us -- and pocket the money that the tax would have recycled back to the American worker.

This is insanity. For 25 years and with utter futility (starting with "The Oil-Bust Panic," The New Republic, February 1983), I have been advocating the cure: a U.S. energy tax as a way to curtail consumption and keep the money at home. In this space in May 2004 (and again in November 2005), I called for "the government -- through a tax -- to establish a new floor for gasoline," by fully taxing any drop in price below a certain benchmark. The point was to suppress demand and to keep the savings (from any subsequent world price drop) at home in the U.S. Treasury rather than going abroad. At the time, oil was $41 a barrel. It is now $139.

But instead of doing the obvious -- tax the damn thing -- we go through spasms of destructive alternatives, such as efficiency standards, ethanol mandates, and now a crazy carbon cap-and-trade system the Senate is debating this week. These are infinitely complex mandates for inefficiency and invitations to corruption. But they have a singular virtue: They hide the cost to the American consumer.

Want to wean us off oil? Be open and honest.

The British are paying $8 a gallon for petrol. Goldman Sachs is predicting we will be paying $6 by next year. Why have the extra $2 (above the current $4) go abroad? Have it go to the U.S. Treasury as a gasoline tax and be recycled back into lower payroll taxes.

Announce a schedule of gas tax hikes of 50 cents every six months for the next two years. And put a tax floor under $4 gasoline, so that as high gas prices transform the U.S. auto fleet, change driving habits, and thus hugely reduce U.S. demand -- and bring down world crude oil prices -- the American consumer and the American economy reap all of the benefit.

Herewith concludes my annual exercise in futility. By the time I advocate the tax floor again next year, you'll be paying for gas in bullion.

Charles Krauthammer is a columnist for The Washington Post.


MicroBalrog

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2008, 02:30:58 PM »
Neoconservatism at it's finest, ah?
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HankB

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2008, 02:56:08 PM »
I thought he was a Republican? Hello!

Quote
Charles Krauthammer: Solve nation's gas price woes with a $2 tax

By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER

 . . .  Goldman Sachs is predicting we will be paying $6 by next year. Why have the extra $2 (above the current $4) go abroad? Have it go to the U.S. Treasury as a gasoline tax and be recycled back into lower payroll taxes . . .
Except any lowered payroll taxes will go to those who pay little or no tax anyway.  angry
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Standing Wolf

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2008, 03:51:40 PM »
Quote
Announce a schedule of gas tax hikes of 50 cents every six months for the next two years. And put a tax floor under $4 gasoline, so that as high gas prices transform the U.S. auto fleet, change driving habits, and thus hugely reduce U.S. demand -- and bring down world crude oil prices -- the American consumer and the American economy reap all of the benefit.

Any time money is transferred from the people to government, we've transferred more power to government, which is a terrible thing.

Using government power to force down U.S. demand for oil only further enriches the power of government. Why should we use less oil, anyway? Just because there's a finite amount of it doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

MicroBalrog

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 04:00:08 PM »
There are a lot of people who, despite being conservatives, do not in fact believe in the free market.

They just want to use the Leviathan to further their own agendas.
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Regolith

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 04:11:28 PM »
Yeah, I saw that article in the local paper and wondered if he had fallen into the deep end.  undecided
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2008, 05:03:07 PM »
I used to think he was at least a little bit Conservative. shocked
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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De Selby

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2008, 05:26:44 PM »
Why should we use less oil, anyway? Just because there's a finite amount of it doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.

Yep-just use use use and make everything depend on it, so that when it runs out we're all bankrupted overnight and don't know what to do. It's the free market-and that means we're all free to starve if other people choose to consume all the resources available to the market for us!

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Tallpine

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2008, 05:32:44 PM »
Let me get this straight: "the market is working, so therefore the government should have intervened instead"  Huh?

 rolleyes
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MechAg94

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2008, 05:55:16 PM »
Why should we use less oil, anyway? Just because there's a finite amount of it doesn't mean we shouldn't use it.

Yep-just use use use and make everything depend on it, so that when it runs out we're all bankrupted overnight and don't know what to do. It's the free market-and that means we're all free to starve if other people choose to consume all the resources available to the market for us!
Yep.  When a resource gets scarce, the price goes up.  The market is working even though govt had a large hand in making the scarcity.  If you think everyone is going to live happy go lucky until all the oil suddenly dries up overnight and no one will look at alternatives, then I you need to look again. 

I think alternatives will be there.  They are nearly there now.  Given another 50 years of research, who knows what we will have.  To assume we will all still be driving 15 MPG SUV's is sort of foolish IMO. 

I had a teacher back in the 80's that figured that if we all ran out of gas today, we would have a similarly priced alternative within 5 years.  There is just too much incentive for those fuel suppliers and auto makers to come up with those alternatives.  I think the alternative would be there much sooner these days and looking ahead.  Since we know oil will be there for a while longer yet, I don't see the issue.   
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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2008, 06:25:14 PM »
When I drive, it's with a point and purpose in mind. There's a need involved, doesn't matter how high gas prices are.

I'm sure GM and others love how people are buying their hybrids. I don't think that the ordinary folks turning in their SUVs for those hybrids enjoy having to sell their car at a loss whilst going a touch deeper into debt for a cereal box on wheels.

Raising fuel taxes will benefit the average American... is he angling for a slot as Obama's VP?

Gewehr98

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2008, 06:35:35 PM »
What's the problem?

As a Conservative myself, I can just look around me to see that we are indeed driving that 4% less, and the assload of FSPs on the local GMC lot aren't being purchased. 

Krauthammer is just making an astute observation - no different than 1974, when I first observed many of the same consumer responses to high fuel prices. We've since learned NOTHING.

Although I disagree with his statement that $4.00 is the breaking point.  I'd say it's closer to $5.00 before we see a real change in how people go about their daily routines.
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roo_ster

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2008, 06:43:47 PM »
Folks forget that Krauthammer is an honest-to-goodness neo-conservative.

I mean "neo-conservative" in the original sense:
A leftist (usually Jewish) who had the minimum level of decency to see that communism/totalitarianism was antithetical to liberty and also had the guts to break with fellow lefties over the issue.

Many neo-cons brought liberal/lefty baggage into the conservative movement.  Things like no real desire for limited gov't, a shine towards social spending, and other non-conservative attitudes.  They weren't fullhouse conservatives, but the conservatives were the only folks making intellectually weighty arguments against socialistic totalitarianism.

G98:

You are correct, we have learned nothing.  We still think an effective riposte to high energy costs is corn ethanol.  And higher taxes.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2008, 07:31:31 PM »

Quote
I'm sure GM and others love how people are buying their hybrids.


Who's buying hybrids?  Seriously, do those things actually sell? 
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De Selby

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2008, 07:43:42 PM »

Yep.  When a resource gets scarce, the price goes up.  The market is working even though govt had a large hand in making the scarcity.  If you think everyone is going to live happy go lucky until all the oil suddenly dries up overnight and no one will look at alternatives, then I you need to look again. 

The problem is that the actors in the free market aren't accountable to the public at large-they are only accountable to their corporate government, and a corporate governing board doesn't take into account the general welfare of the country. 

Hence, it is entirely possible that by pursuing a high short-term return oil policy, private actors can wreck the economy for the rest of us.  It doesn't have to happen overnight, and not all the oil has to be gone; just enough to ruin the rest of the economy by driving up prices, while still permitting the private actors in charge of the oil to charge sufficient prices to maintain an acceptable level of profitability.

When there's a resource that's as vital to the well-being of literally every aspect of the economy as oil at stake, planning the use and conservation of that resource makes sense-so as to not end up in a repeat of the 70's crisis. 

This is one area where everyone's behind is on the line.  Oil drives everyone's well being, and it powers the entire defense establishment.  Its use and conservation should be in light of the vital public interest in the resource, not just the interests of the few private actors who happen to sell the product.
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Gewehr98

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2008, 08:29:50 PM »
Quote
You are correct, we have learned nothing.  We still think an effective riposte to high energy costs is corn ethanol.  And higher taxes.

You had to get an ethanol jab in there, didn't you?  rolleyes

I'd say something that sounds amazingly like "4Q", but as a mod, I'll just hold that in reserve, I can wait a long time.

Y'all laugh it up.  I've never said ethanol was the One True Sword, and I defy anyone to find where I said that.  It may chap some folks' posteriors, but it is a definite start out of our pathetic dependency on the petroleum teat as we beg the Saudis to increase output - eating from their hands, as it were. Just mention ethanol or other sources of energy and watch the Saudis get as nervous as a priest at a Boy Scout Jamboree.  That says a lot right there. As China and India demand more of the world's output, keep that in mind.

I think it's a good start to research alternative energy, while everybody else sits around and bitches about it, offering no solutions other than "We need to drill like there's no tomorrow!"  Yeah, that's a long-term solution that'll produce cheap gas next week. The whole "last cigarette" thing again. Thank goodness I won't be alive when push comes to shove in 50 or so years when the real weeping and gnashing of teeth happens. Then again, I'm an anomaly in the general scheme of things, going off-grid with my electric consumption, etc.  I'm not so naive to want a Pious in my driveway, but I've gotten a good education since 1974.  Fights at gas stations?  Check.  Stolen license plates for fuel-pump drive-offs?  Check.  Family members on the farm having their diesel tanks tapped during the night?  Check.  People quitting their jobs because they cannot afford the commute?  Check. I just want somebody to siphon my pickup and fill their vehicle with it. They'll be in for a rude surprise.     
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MicroBalrog

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 12:15:56 AM »
Folks forget that Krauthammer is an honest-to-goodness neo-conservative.

I mean "neo-conservative" in the original sense:
A leftist (usually Jewish) who had the minimum level of decency to see that communism/totalitarianism was antithetical to liberty and also had the guts to break with fellow lefties over the issue.

Many neo-cons brought liberal/lefty baggage into the conservative movement.  Things like no real desire for limited gov't, a shine towards social spending, and other non-conservative attitudes.  They weren't fullhouse conservatives, but the conservatives were the only folks making intellectually weighty arguments against socialistic totalitarianism.


I would add here that many neo-cons - like Kristol - openly state that they have no 'ideological' connection to limited government, and in fact deride those who have it.

Everybody should read Kristol's book. it's an intimidating summary of everything WRONG with neo-conservatism and with Republicanism today.
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seeker_two

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 01:19:20 AM »

Although I disagree with his statement that $4.00 is the breaking point.  I'd say it's closer to $5.00 before we see a real change in how people go about their daily routines.

Bull.....most people have curbed their non-essential spending and travel before $4/gal. Now we're getting into the "either/or" decisions when it comes to essential spending (groceries, appliances, clothing, etc.) And prices on the essentials are going up, too.....

If Krauthammer (who is about as conservative as Hillary) wanted to propose a useful gov't intervention, he could have proposed immedately reducing the national speed limits to 60mph....that would put us in an oil glut in a few weeks....but that wouldn't be profitable to all the oil investors/speculators/manipulators (like the Bush family and Krauthammer)....

The only long-term solutions here from gov't is to remove the blocks to domestic energy development (drilling, refineries, etc.), increase oversight/regulation of the speculation market, and give tax breaks to consumers buying into energy efficiency....and make sure energy companies take advantage of this opportunity.....

And, to get my dig in, get rid of the ethanol mandate. Our energy problems won't be solved by the Children of the Corn....  grin
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mtnbkr

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2008, 01:38:46 AM »

Quote
I'm sure GM and others love how people are buying their hybrids.


Who's buying hybrids?  Seriously, do those things actually sell? 

Are you kidding?  They're all over the place around here.  Civics, Accords, Priuses (Priuii?), Camrys...

Chris

Manedwolf

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2008, 04:12:17 AM »
If Krauthammer (who is about as conservative as Hillary) wanted to propose a useful gov't intervention, he could have proposed immedately reducing the national speed limits to 60mph....that would put us in an oil glut in a few weeks....but that wouldn't be profitable to all the oil investors/speculators/manipulators (like the Bush family and Krauthammer)....

If you're driving a rolling toolshed, wind resistance uses more fuel at speed. If, however, you have something like a relatively aerodynamic car that's been further (and properly) lowered as mine has, the difference in fuel usage at 60 vs 65 is barely measurable. Especially if I use cruise control. Not like anyone actually obeys the posted speed limit on highways here anyway, so all it does is let the state troopies grabbing randomly from the flow have more of an excuse to make revenue.

Keep More Big Government out of my commute.

RocketMan

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2008, 04:59:34 AM »
Yep.  When a resource gets scarce, the price goes up.  The market is working even though govt had a large hand in making the scarcity. 

Yep, except there is no oil shortage.  According to various MSM news sources, the Saudis are having no difficulty meeting demand, and the Iranians have a number of full tankers sitting at the dock waiting on buyers.
The building concensus is that this is a speculative bubble, not a supply/demand problem.
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seeker_two

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2008, 06:57:29 AM »
If Krauthammer (who is about as conservative as Hillary) wanted to propose a useful gov't intervention, he could have proposed immedately reducing the national speed limits to 60mph....that would put us in an oil glut in a few weeks....but that wouldn't be profitable to all the oil investors/speculators/manipulators (like the Bush family and Krauthammer)....

If you're driving a rolling toolshed, wind resistance uses more fuel at speed. If, however, you have something like a relatively aerodynamic car that's been further (and properly) lowered as mine has, the difference in fuel usage at 60 vs 65 is barely measurable. Especially if I use cruise control. Not like anyone actually obeys the posted speed limit on highways here anyway, so all it does is let the state troopies grabbing randomly from the flow have more of an excuse to make revenue.


In Texas, the difference would be more like 60 vs. 70 (80 on IH 45  shocked ). And we have plenty of rolling toolsheds (complete with tools in the back and behind the wheel) on the roads without cruise control (the floorboard is the limiting factor to speed.)  And at least DPS and the local smokies keep the money in the local towns/counties instead of sending it to Washington DC......  police
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Manedwolf

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2008, 07:03:03 AM »
Well, in terms of toolshed, I meant more "escalade" and the like. Aerodynamics of a brick with wheels.

Typical SUV, flying piece of paper, paper smacks into front and sticks. My car, flying bit of paper, paper is sucked into slipstream, drifts over hood and windshield and roof without touching, dips down over line of trunk and goes behind. That HAS to have a significant effect on fuel economy in terms of driving through the air, not fighting it every step of the way.

agricola

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2008, 07:44:07 AM »
Yep.  When a resource gets scarce, the price goes up.  The market is working even though govt had a large hand in making the scarcity. 

Yep, except there is no oil shortage.  According to various MSM news sources, the Saudis are having no difficulty meeting demand, and the Iranians have a number of full tankers sitting at the dock waiting on buyers.
The building concensus is that this is a speculative bubble, not a supply/demand problem.

Perhaps - the same allegation was made with respect to food prices worldwide - but its not a "problem" that the OPEC nations are particularly concerned with, for obvious reasons.  It would be interesting to see how governments tried to fix that, if thats what the problem is.

That said, I still think whatever the circumstances of this that there is a silver lining on this cloud - if people are starting to realise that petrol will eventually run out and start to plan accordingly.
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The Annoyed Man

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Re: What in the world is Charles Krauthammer smoking?
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2008, 08:13:01 AM »
Makes perfect sense.  Higher prices=lower demand.  When it comes to our dependence on foreign oil, lower demand is everything.  Then use that tax to offset payroll taxes.  I like it.