USA commits act of war? ...

[Ron]

... against Germany? So says Seymore Hersh. You guys need to vote harder 

Nord Stream Sabotage Was CIA, US Navy Covert Op: Seymour Hersh Bombshell Prompts White House Response

After conducting his own investigation into who sabotaged the Nord Stream pipelines via a series of underwater blasts on Sept. 26, Hersh has concluded the United States blew up the Russia-to-Germany natural gas pipeline as part of a covert operation under the guise of the BALTOPS 22 NATO exercise.

Hersh, relying on unnamed national security sources, describes months of discussions and back-and-forth involving the Biden White House, CIA, and Pentagon. The report says planning was in the works all the way back to December 2021, with a special task force formed under the aegis of US National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/nord-stream-sabotage-was-cia-us-navy-covert-op-seymour-hersh-bombshell-prompts-white

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream

[RoadKingLarry]

Damn, the guy is either a total whack job or a big time whistle blower. In the current crazy world we live even money it could go either way.

[Ron]

Damn, the guy is either a total whack job or a big time whistle blower. In the current crazy world we live even money it could go either way.

It's crazy, I had the same exact thought, even money!

[Pb]

If the USA did do this, it was a vile act.

[Ben]

as part of a covert operation under the guise of the BALTOPS 22 NATO exercise.

That's what I said back when it happened.

[Ben]

One thing that might throw a monkey wrench into this theory is this:

According to his Substack post, divers operating from a Norwegian Alta mine-hunting vessel used a “mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, and helium streaming from their tanks, and plant shaped C4 charges on the four pipelines with concrete protective covers” before detonating the explosives.

The above is from this (premium subscription required) Epoch Times article:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/white-house-responds-to-report-claiming-us-blew-up-nord-stream-pipeline-last-year_5043261.html/

Recall in our topic on it here, it was initially reported that the explosives contained TNT. From what I read, C4 doesn't have any TNT in it. So somebody is wrong.

[MechAg94]

If we did it, it was really stupid, IMO. 

[WLJ]

If we did it, it was really stupid, IMO.

Probably means we did it

[dogmush]

Who the *expletive deleted*ck is Seymore Hersh?

[Ron]

Who the *expletive deleted*ck is Seymore Hersh?

Rabble rouser lefty journalist.

[bedlamite]

Probably means we did it

Does anybody honestly think it wasn't the US? I've got a bridge to sell you.

Go back and think about it, we are the only ones with means, motive, and opportunity. Nobody else had anything to gain, and we had the NAVY right there for weeks ahead of time.

[dogmush]

I tend to think Occam's Razor is shitty Russian maintenance and  operation.

I also tend to think if we were going to do clandestine *expletive deleted*it at the bottom of the Baltic we have better ways to do it than surface divers on trimix.  FFS the 688's that we used for the end of Ivy Bells are still in service.

[RoadKingLarry]

We had the capability to deliver divers while submerged in the late '80s. The evolution rates pretty low on the "tricky" scale.
When we retasked a bunch of Ohio class FBMs with dedicated swimmer delivery systems it got even easier with the added capacity to deploy underwater vehicles.

I wouldn't put anything passed Biden's handlers.

[HankB]

Do the Navy people capable of doing this have enough personal loyalty to Biden to keep a sabotage operation like this secret at a time when we're NOT at war with Russia?

[RoadKingLarry]

Therein lies the problem with conspiracies.
3 can keep a secret, if 2 are dead.

[Northwoods]

Does anybody honestly think it wasn't the US? I've got a bridge to sell you.

Go back and think about it, we are the only ones with means, motive, and opportunity. Nobody else had anything to gain, and we had the NAVY right there for weeks ahead of time.

It makes more logical sense that we did it vs the Russians.  Doesn’t mean we actually did it though.

I tend to think Occam's Razor is shitty Russian maintenance and  operation.

I also tend to think if we were going to do clandestine *expletive deleted*it at the bottom of the Baltic we have better ways to do it than surface divers on trimix.  FFS the 688's that we used for the end of Ivy Bells are still in service.

I’m in this camp.  Typical Russian (lack of) maintenance is far more likely than international sabotage, by anyone.

[Ron]

Considering the source and his history I tend to believe TPTB want the idea there was probably US involvement out there.

Mr. Hersh and his writing on this subject are probably what is called in that world, a "limited hang out". The who and why will never be shared with us but for whatever reason TPTB are OK with the hoi polloi considering it as a possibility.   

It's all spy vs spy, house of mirrors, squid ink stuff.

[Ron]

Oh look! A balloon!

[HeroHog]

https://youtu.be/hiwgOWo7mDc

https://youtu.be/Fpu5a0Bl8eY

[MechAg94]

We had the capability to deliver divers while submerged in the late '80s. The evolution rates pretty low on the "tricky" scale.
When we retasked a bunch of Ohio class FBMs with dedicated swimmer delivery systems it got even easier with the added capacity to deploy underwater vehicles.

I wouldn't put anything passed Biden's handlers.

That is a hang up for me.  We wouldn't need to plant explosives under cover of anything.  We could do it without anyone knowing someone was in the area at all.  We could have done it years ago.  For that matter, I suspect we could have made it look like "lack of maintenance" if we wanted to.    That doesn't rule out the possibility of stupid orders or stupid people in the chain of command, but there is no reason this journalist is telling the true story.  I could easily see this story or parts of it being planted.  Hopefully more info about that will come out if so.

And I was never in those circles, but I figure our submarine people were more used to keeping secrets than a lot of other outfits.  Maybe that is based on what I have heard about Cold War operations not present day.

[Perd Hapley]

I tend to think Occam's Razor is *expletive deleted*itty Russian maintenance and  operation.

I also tend to think if we were going to do clandestine *expletive deleted*it at the bottom of the Baltic we have better ways to do it than surface divers on trimix.  FFS the 688's that we used for the end of Ivy Bells are still in service.

This is easier for me to believe, because I just don't see blowing up that pipeline as particularly advantageous to anyone.

[Pb]

It is advantageous to Ukraine.  It forcibly reduces Germany's dependence on Russian gas.  This makes Germany more likely to send aid to the Ukraine.  Good for Poland too.

[Ben]

A little tinfoily, but a friend was telling me yesterday that he read on one of his news sites that US oil and gas contractors are already primed and ready to go into Ukraine if there is a Russian withdrawl to start extracting. You know, "helping" our friend Ukraine rebuild.

Again, a little tinfoily, but not necessarily out of bounds for the US military-industrial complex. There was already a lot of talk that we had a big hand in making the comedian president.

[Nick1911]

It's a little hard for me to understand how poor maintenance would cause the undersea failure of two independent pipelines 17 hours apart.  One of which was at the very beginning of its service life.

[Jim147]

This is easier for me to believe, because I just don't see blowing up that pipeline as particularly advantageous to anyone.

Well, we had two quarters in the negative and then the next quarter is in the positive. Almost all of that was oil/gas sales overseas.