Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Sergeant Bob on October 18, 2013, 08:15:17 PM
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Uh-oh: surveillance camera shows Dallas PD lied about shooting of mentally ill man
Link to Video and Story (http://bearingarms.com/uh-oh-surveillance-camera-shows-dallas-pd-lied-about-shooting-of-mentally-ill-man/)
Today, Cardan Spencer and Christopher Watson are officers with the Dallas Police Department. If there is any justice at all in Texas courts, they will soon be prison inmates:
Family and friends of a mentally ill Rylie man want answers after a Dallas police officer shot him for no apparent reason Monday in broad daylight outside his home.
A police report says that Officer Cardan Spencer fired on Bobby Gerald Bennett, 52, after Bennett walked toward him and his partner with a “knife raised in an aggressive manner.”
But a neighbor’s video surveillance camera recording shows something different: It shows Bennett, who was seated in a chair, initially rolling back from officers as they advance on him. Bennett then stands up but does not move. His hands remain at his side and he is standing still when Spencer shoots him, firing his service weapon four times.
Bennett remained in the intensive care unit of a Dallas hospital Thursday after being shot in the abdomen.
Spencer and Watson were unaware of the surveillance camera, and claimed that Bennett was advancing upon them with a knife, which the video clearly shows not to be true.
The gunned a man down, and tried to lie about it. There is no place in law enforcement for men such as these.
It looks to me like like they shot shot someone who was no threat to them and then lied about it. At least they got to go home that night. ;/
Title edited for correction
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[csd]
serves em right. should have ran away when cops arrived. didnt kowtow deep enough.
[/csd]
There's been a spate of these situations where video evidence shows cops to be raw liars.
Seems prudent to video record any and all interactions with police.
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Well, not quite murder yet.... At least everything I've read says vic is still alive. But 4 rounds to the gut, that could be a bit dicey.
Nonetheless, at this point in time they should be charged with attempted murder. With a possible upgrading of charges if their victim does die.
Along with a whole other slew of charges relating to lying about the incident
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They are probably in more trouble over the lies.
If they told the truth their punishment would be administrative.
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They are probably in more trouble over the lies.
If they told the truth their punishment would be administrative.
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So, it's cool that they tried to outright murder someone, but that they LIED about it, that's a problem. =|
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So, it's cool that they tried to outright murder someone, but that they LIED about it, that's a problem. =|
Not cool, just realistic.
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Yeah, they might have claimed something else or some mistake and got protected. Lying like that means they didn't think they could cover it up and anything they try to say now is suspect.
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[heavy sarcasm] suspend them with pay! [sarcasm]
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Sure doesn't look good, and lying about it to try to cover it up makes it many times worse.
The guy got up aggressively, but in that scenario (assuming we have sufficient details) given the distances and times involved, even a taser deployment would have been overkill.
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So, it's cool that they tried to outright murder someone, but that they LIED about it, that's a problem. =|
Our resident LEO apologist is cool with it. You should be, too.
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I hope there is enough pressure to actually force the Dallas DA to prosecute.
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I hope there is enough pressure to actually force the Dallas DA to prosecute.
Is the dude who was shot rich? The DA has a rep for charging folks at the behest of big money donors.
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The guy got up aggressively, but in that scenario (assuming we have sufficient details) given the distances and times involved, even a taser deployment would have been overkill.
How does one "Get up aggressively"? He stood up -- and then he stood there until they shot him. He didn't move his right hand. The video was too fuzzy for me to see if he moved or lifted his left hand. He sure as heck didn't move aggressively toward them.
Another example of how 98 percent of cops give the rest a bad name.
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Well, not quite murder yet.... At least everything I've read says vic is still alive. But 4 rounds to the gut, that could be a bit dicey.
Nonetheless, at this point in time they should be charged with attempted murder. With a possible upgrading of charges if their victim does die.
Along with a whole other slew of charges relating to lying about the incident
Thanks, wasn't paying enough attention when I put in the title.
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[csd]
serves em right. should have ran away when cops arrived. didnt kowtow deep enough.
[/csd]
There's been a spate of these situations where video evidence shows cops to be raw liars.
Seems prudent to video record any and all interactions with police.
[csd]
Video recorded your police encounter? You were obviously looking for trouble and/or trying to bait the cops.
[/csd]
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So, it's cool that they tried to outright murder someone, but that they LIED about it, that's a problem. =|
outright murder? really?
thats a bit of a reach even for you.
what i can see,not to be confused with fantasize, cop screwed up.
i think he imagined a move or even used bad trigger discipline. bad shoot
thet lies are a real problem even moreso for the cop who didn't shoot.
i presume they are union?
damn phone
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How does one "Get up aggressively"? He stood up -- and then he stood there until they shot him. He didn't move his right hand. The video was too fuzzy for me to see if he moved or lifted his left hand. He sure as heck didn't move aggressively toward them.
He didn't just stand up, he jumped out of the chair. I could see that being interpreted as an aggressive move. If i were talking to someone and they sprang from a chair like that i would consider it to be aggressive. However, given the apparent distance to the officers and the fact that be stood still afterward there was no immediate threat or reason to go lethal.
Another example of how 98 percent of cops give the rest a bad name.
This makes as much sense as the people who point at news stories of bad gun owners and saying the same sort of thing about us. Beyond ignorant.
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oops just really read the link. they may both walj. i'd need to see rheir actual. statements to know. the dangers of internet journalism. the story quoted a police report not thosr two cops statements. if someone other than them "gilded the lilly" it could go back to a bad shoot and admistrative punishment, or less. when was the shooting?
damn phone
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He didn't just stand up, he jumped out of the chair. I could see that being interpreted as an aggressive move. If i were talking to someone and they sprang from a chair like that i would consider it to be aggressive.
Try shooting them on that basis and see how it works out for you =|
Just as a note: I can sorta see why some people want to ban guns just based on how armed cops (re)act to slight provocation. ;/
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outright murder? really?
thats a bit of a reach even for you.
what i can see,not to be confused with fantasize, cop screwed up.
i think he imagined a move or even used bad trigger discipline. bad shoot
thet lies are a real problem even moreso for the cop who didn't shoot.
i presume they are union?
damn phone
You shoot someone and see what you get charged with, odds are it would be 1st or 2nd degree murder. Just because a cop does it, doesn't make it man slaughter, the gun didn't jump into his hand and pull its own trigger.
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He didn't just stand up, he jumped out of the chair. I could see that being interpreted as an aggressive move.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I just watched it again after reading your post and I would definitely NOT call what he did "jumping out of the chair." He stood up, he did not "jump out of the chair" -- and then he did NOT make any move toward the cops.
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After looking at the video, he rolled back first when they got out of the car and then stood up. There wasn't anything I would have taken as a threat.
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[sarcasm]Police randomly shooting people, out of incompetence or malice, is just the price we pay for them keeping us safe[/sarcasm] As long as it's not you or anyone you know that's the victim, what's the problem? :police:
Unfortunately, too many DA's, grand juries, etc. think that way.
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I guess that's what happens when you operate an un-registered and un-insured office chair on a public street ;/
Further thoughts I'd best keep to myself.
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Further thoughts I'd best keep to myself.
Same here. :mad:
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Well, I finally watched the video, expecting some type of epiphany, but instead I saw a time stamp over a very important part of the video. A car roll up, a chair with half a person in it rolling backwards, who then stood up as the chair continued backwards. The cops are now behind the time stamp (about 15-20 feet away from the person standing), I sure hope they can remove that. The shootee is standing there, not moving forward, or backwards as far as I can tell, and appx 4 seconds later he bends at the middle and drops to the ground.
I am sure that the investigation will show there was probable cause to shoot him, knife, <21ft away, aggressive posture, etc. They can come up with a ton of reasons. If it is anything like Spokane, they don't even get interviewed about it for at least 48 hours. Lots of time to "replay" it in their heads to solidify their story. After all, you don't want them telling one story one day, and another the next. ;/
But as someone has already said, the trouble won't come from shooting the guy, it will be from the lies about it in the first place.
bob
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Try shooting them on that basis and see how it works out for you =|
Just as a note: I can sorta see why some people want to ban guns just based on how armed cops (re)act to slight provocation. ;/
in virginia it would work fine
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You shoot someone and see what you get charged with, odds are it would be 1st or 2nd degree murder. Just because a cop does it, doesn't make it man slaughter, the gun didn't jump into his hand and pull its own trigger.
very interesting points
one point you overlook is that someone called and we(society) sent them. i have choices not to engage
they will not be charged for many of the same reason docs and nurses who screw up aren't charged
i would love to see the actual statements as well as hear more about why they were called what was said.
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very interesting points
one point you overlook is that someone called and we(society) sent them. i have choices not to engage
they will not be charged for many of the same reason docs and nurses who screw up aren't charged
i would love to see the actual statements as well as hear more about why they were called what was said.
Hello, 911? Some guy is sitting out in the middle of the street in a chair.
???
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Hello, 911? Some guy is sitting out in the middle of the street in a chair.
???
don't forget the knife
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don't forget the knife
The imaginary knife?
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RM, you have a point, I watched that vid several times, and when the first cop went over to the guy after the shooting, all he did was look at him. Didn't remove anything I could make out. Later, I am not so sure, so it could very well have been imaginary. I would think the first thing you would do is to disarm the guy, shot or not, or maybe I have been watching too many COPS shows.
bob
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The imaginary knife?
didn't see the video? hear what the nice lil old lady said?
its interesting how stuff gets overlooked like that
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Not the same caliber of journalism as the op's.
But
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas/surveillance-footage-disputes-dallas-police-affidavit-officer-involved-shooting--mentally-ill-228252551.html
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didn't see the video? hear what the nice lil old lady said?
its interesting how stuff gets overlooked like that
Never quit masturbating in the back yard? Don't know what the crazy neighbors say about you?
Interesting how pulling questions out yer hindquarters can make a false impression.
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Never quit masturbating in the back yard? Don't know what the crazy neighbors say about you?
Interesting how pulling questions out yer hindquarters can make a false impression.
I am unclear. Did you hear what the nice folks said about the knife? Or even read about it?
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I am unclear. Did you hear what the nice folks said about the knife? Or even read about it?
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According to police accounts, Spencer and Watson responded to the 9400 block of Crimnson Court on Monday afternoon after Bennett’s mother, Joyce Jackson, called police for help in dealing with her son.
Authorities have said that she told the 911 operator that Bennett was violent, had a knife and was throwing things at a garage door.
Knife? Alleged knife, according to a caller who might be lying/mistaken/vengeful/crazy?
The videotape just cries out for an independent investigation,” said Bill Wirskye, a former high-ranking Dallas County prosecutor. Wirskye is currently one of the special prosecutors in the Kaufman County district attorney slayings.
“Maybe there’s something that’s not in the video that would justify the officer’s actions, but at least based on the videotape and the documentation that I’ve seen, it’s not a justified shooting,
I saw what Bill Wirskye saw on the video. The crime of unaggressive standing up, followed by being casually put down a few seconds later by 2 cops whose level of interest did not even rise to the level of reading the McDonalds breakfast menu.
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Knife?
I saw what Bill Wirskye saw on the video. The crime of unaggressive standing up, followed by being casually put down a few seconds later by 2 cops whose level of interest did not even rise to the level of reading the McDonalds breakfast menu.
And then I assume you agree also with " maybe there's something not seen in the video"?
And alleged knife ?! You did not trouble yourself with looking at the article? See the statement of the man with the video?
I don't blame ya a bit
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And then I assume you agree also with " maybe there's something not seen in the video"?
Probably what we don't see is him raising his hands. So they shot him.
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C&SD, there is clearly no knife in the video. Nothing drops from his hands as he is shot. The cops do not remove anything from him after he was shot.
A 911 call is purely hypothetical information, it does not become factual until there is ground truth. Ground truth supporting the cops version of the story is clearly lacking here.
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There is clearly no knife in the video. Nothing drops from his hands as he is shot. The cops do not remove anything from him after he was shot. What a little old lady said in the 911 call does not much apply when the victims hands were clearly empty.
what size is your monitor? i can't see it that clearly. and why would a knife have to drop? you don't believe the older mans narration? why? he was there and all
check again om the cops removing the knife the olderman even comments on it.
his statement presents ground truth that does not agree with your video assesment
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what size is your monitor? i can't see it that clearly. and why would a knife have to drop? you don't believe the older mans narration? why? he was there and all
Chair guy dropped something in the street when he rolled back. Cops don't seem much interested in it. It's pretty fuzzy - maybe it's the landing gear from Amelia Earhart's plane =|
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Probably what we don't see is him raising his hands. So they shot him.
I can only see his right hand and arm. Is there video I am unaware of?
Is this like the video of the lady killed in dc where the lady was outa sight and folks were still able to reach conclusions about what happened during that 4 seconds?
If I recall it was the bullets holes in the back of the car that some used to see where no camera was. In that case remarkably enough folks overlooked the car having a forward and reverse gear and the idea that she was shot while in reverse escaped them.
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Try shooting them on that basis and see how it works out for you =|
You did read the rest if my post, right?
Chair guy dropped something in the street when he rolled back. Cops don't seem much interested in it. It's pretty fuzzy - maybe it's the landing gear from Amelia Earhart's plane =|
CSD's article implies it may be a pouch of tobacco. And the neighbor says he may have had the knife (which his mother initially told police about) in his hand when he was shot.
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You did read the rest if my post, right?CSD's article implies it may be a pouch of tobacco. And the neighbor says he may have had the knife (which his mother initially told police about) in his hand when he was shot.
that articles not getting much play odd since it has the older mans statements in there. but its not what they wanna read either.
if the knife was in his left hand he might not be fibbing hard to say yet
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and vis a vis that "try that see what happens" a real life example
http://jonathanturley.org/2007/08/18/john-frederick-ames-and-the-laws-misuse-in-a-fatal-fued/
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And alleged knife ?! You did not trouble yourself with looking at the article? See the statement of the man with the video?
Yes, I did "trouble myself" to read the linked article. Saw no such "statement of the man with the video".
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Yes, I did "trouble myself" to read the linked article. Saw no such "statement of the man with the video".
Really? Which article? What part of "I believe he may have had the knife in his hand when the police shot him, I am not 100percent certain" did you find ambiguous or confusing?
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Really? Which article? What part of "I believe he may have had the knife in his hand when the police shot him, I am not 100 percent certain" did you find ambiguous or confusing?
Yep, no doubt at all the perp had a knife. They should have shot him six or eight times more for good measure.
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Yep, no doubt at all the perp had a knife. They should have shot him six or eight times more for good measure.
see that's progress. We went from clearly there is no knife to this. And all you had to do was listen to what the man said.
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[sarcasm]see that's progress. We went from clearly there is no knife to this. And all you had to do was listen to what the man said.[/sarcasm]
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FTFY!
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FTFY!
i have to admit its amazing how some of the subtle nuancing gets overlooked in the articles.
damn phone
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see that's progress. We went from clearly there is no knife to this. And all you had to do was listen to what the man said.
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That's what you were going on about?! You mentioned seeing a statement in the article. I didn't see one. When someone refers to an article, I tend to think they mean the written part. I did hear that bit in the video, but there was no way I thought that was what you were referring to. A WAG is not what I would base exculpation of those fine officers on. Not when the video evidence is all but damning.
Sorry, my mistake. I won't expect as much from you in the future.
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That's what you were going on about?! You mentioned seeing a statement in the article. I didn't see one. When someone refers to an article, I tend to think they mean the written part. I did hear that bit in the video, but there was no way I thought that was what you were referring to. A WAG is not what I would base exculpation of those fine officers on. Not when the video evidence is all but damning.
Sorry, my mistake. I won't expect as much from you in the future.
It's in the written part as well. So you only read the op article? Try the real news source
Video evidence can be a funny thing
Bet you see what happened here
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SeYRvxP-BRo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DSeYRvxP-BRo
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Video evidence can be a funny thing
And unfounded speculation within a video is downright hilarious.
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And unfounded speculation within a video is downright hilarious.
ironic that
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Not that it was aggressive behavior but how does aggressive behavior give the cops the right to shoot someone? I thought the standard was fear for their life? I guess that standard has gone out the window.
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Police are held to really low standards. Spoiled brats is what they have become. I wonder, in what form should the spanking come?
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i see now why some of you can't see any evidence of a knife or the cops removing it. the op's "journalist" accidentally edited his video. by some strange fluke it cuts out just in time. try the slightly longer onethat the real reporter used see if that helps. damn funny how he lost just that part
but hey its the internet and you gottactell the mark what he wants to hear
damn phone
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the suspect “took several steps toward them with the knife raised in an aggressive manner.”, is the part that makes the po's statement lose credibility. if an average citizen had a video come forward that showed something contradictory to their sworn statement, i'm reasonably sure that they would face indictment.
in the mothers 911 call, do you think the mentioning of a weapon was used to guarantee a speedy response?
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Not that it was aggressive behavior but how does aggressive behavior give the cops the right to shoot someone? I thought the standard was fear for their life? I guess that standard has gone out the window.
aggressive behavior with a knifw always makes me nervous. i guess some of you are ballsier but a knife hurts
damn phone
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the suspect “took several steps toward them with the knife raised in an aggressive manner.”, is the part that makes the po's statement lose credibility. if an average citizen had a video come forward that showed something contradictory to their sworn statement, i'm reasonably sure that they would face indictment.
in the mothers 911 call, do you think the mentioning of a weapon was used to guarantee a speedy response?
i agree
credibility is like virginity
i would really like to see/know how/who the lie evolved
my choices ramge from a deliberate decision tocover up what could be a bad shoot by the 2 cops on scene to that same decision being made in the food chain above em. to the cop just being scared and in his mind he really imagines the guy took steps at him. folks get a might flustered and their post event recollections are often off.
if it was a coverup charges are good
there is a school of thought that says once a cop.has had to pull thw trigger once he should be off the street. cases like this might be worth looking at but the jurys out.
i think they can charge directly on false report.
i think mom said there was a knife cause there was a knife and unmedicated schizo with a weapon is part of the cops job description. been there done that its exciting. things happen real fast even if its someone you know.
the comment about special cops trained to handle disturbed folks makes me wonder. most cops do ojt on that very limited real training.
taser on a guy like that?
might work. i will let you try it them folks are crazy strong and you migjt make him mad. i know i gave real consideration to shooting my own brother a couple times . mighta once except i promised mom i'd look after him. he threw 3 of us off him combined weight about 500 pounds. at the time he was 99 pounds. another time i put a hold on him that woulda broke his neck and mighta if he hadn't dropped the knife
damn phone
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People need to take personal responsiblity.
If the mother wanted her mentally ill son shot in the stomach, she should have done it herself.
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A man with a knife can be a very serious threat to a man with a firearm. The Tueller drill regularly shows knife-wielders getting the better of folk with holstered guns at 21' or less. In this case, though, they had guns drawn & aimed. If dude charged, they had the drop on him and could have quickly shot him to pieces.
I wonder what would happen to me if I shot a mentally ill man with a knife who had retreated from me and stood up, but not advanced on me? And then video showed I lied about what occurred.
I think I would be facing some damned serious charges.
FTR, Dallas PD does not get the cream of the LEO crop. Less pay and lower standards heavily influenced by racial hiring quotas, relative to surrounding municipalities.
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People need to take personal responsiblity.
If the mother wanted her mentally ill son shot in the stomach, she should have done it herself.
Sadly, there is much truth there even tho' you were probably being sarcastic. When you call the cops on a mentally ill person, you should expect them to shoot somebody (and maybe your dog) because that's what they do.
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We need to do it the way the Brits do. Keep firearms out of the hands of police officers, obviously they can't control themselves.
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just as an aside, 4 shots with only 1 hit on a stationary target........ :facepalm:
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just as an aside, 4 shots with only 1 hit on a stationary target........ :facepalm:
thats what made me think either scared or n/d or combination
damn phone
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A man with a knife can be a very serious threat to a man with a firearm. The Tueller drill regularly shows knife-wielders getting the better of folk with holstered guns at 21' or less. In this case, though, they had guns drawn & aimed. If dude charged, they had the drop on him and could have quickly shot him to pieces.
I wonder what would happen to me if I shot a mentally ill man with a knife who had retreated from me and stood up, but not advanced on me? And then video showed I lied about what occurred.
I think I would be facing some damned serious charges.
FTR, Dallas PD does not get the cream of the LEO crop. Less pay and lower standards heavily influenced by racial hiring quotas, relative to surrounding municipalities.
in va you could call it a good shoot
i think i posted a link to a local case
damn phone
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Let's see what's going on in this thread.
Bad shoot by cops. Check.
Video evidence of bad shoot. Check.
Cops caught in lie about bad shoot. Check.
C&SD making up exculpatory evidence, not based on what is in the video, but what isn't. Check.
Typically normal day on APS. Cops shooting, non-tried, non-convicted folk, but because the police were called "OFF WITH THEIR HEADS !!" or in the case their intestinal track. Welcome to C&SD's world of "Shoot First and don't ask any questions.*"
*Applicable only to LEO's. Lesser forms of life not include although may be subject to being shot by LEO's on sight to ensure "Officer Safety".
Never wrestle with a pig. It wastes your time and the pig enjoys it.
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If you can help me out with those things you imagine aren't supported let me know. A hint? Don't use the ops edited video
There's the whole tape available but you won't like it
Do any of the texas folk know would there be a dash cam? And is a two man car normal?
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If you can help me out with those things you imagine aren't supported let me know. A hint? Don't use the ops edited video
There's the whole tape available but you won't like it
Do any of the texans folk know would there be a dash cam? And us a two man car normal?
I'm really not trying to be a smartass, but having never met F2F I have to ask: "second language?"
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I'm really not trying to be a smartass, but having never met F2F I have to ask: "second language?"
Damn auto nonsense on iPad
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Damn auto nonsense on iPad
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http://www.wikihow.com/Disable-Autocorrect-on-an-iPhone/iPod-Touch
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A man with a knife can be a very serious threat to a man with a firearm. The Tueller drill regularly shows knife-wielders getting the better of folk with holstered guns at 21' or less. In this case, though, they had guns drawn & aimed. If dude charged, they had the drop on him and could have quickly shot him to pieces.
I wonder what would happen to me if I shot a mentally ill man with a knife who had retreated from me and stood up, but not advanced on me? And then video showed I lied about what occurred.
I think I would be facing some damned serious charges.
FTR, Dallas PD does not get the cream of the LEO crop. Less pay and lower standards heavily influenced by racial hiring quotas, relative to surrounding municipalities.
Sure seems like a case of shooting first and asking questions later. Assuming the timing is accurate and assuming he had a knife, there was no attempt to talk him down or just wait. What about a taser? There were two cops so one could maintain a weapon on the guy regardless of the reaction. I wouldn't call this an active threat that required immediate shooting.
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thats what made me think either scared or n/d or combination
damn phone
Or the tards just can't shoot.
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April 14th, 1988.
Dallas has gone downhill ever since.
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Cordex: the percentage is an exaggeration but not that much. Think about it. Cops who are outright serious felons, cops who only break the little laws they know they can get "professional courtesy" for like speeding or DUI, the cops who enable them by staring at their thin blue lines, the cops who work for the myriad of agencies that practice civil asset forfeiture, and all members of the agencies that are criminal organization in uniform like Chicago PD/ New Orleans PD etc. the "good cops" are a pretty damn small minority.
And guys, seriously now. CSD is a troll on cop threads, plain and simple. He's actively defending a shoot so bad that the cops who did it knew they needed to lie to cover it up. He's posting because we give him attention, and because he gets off on being the "wise old elder putting the young punks in their place," even if only in his own mind. We know what happens when we ignore him, he goes crazy and starts spamming the thread in a desperate "look at me look at me" way.
Let's just ignore him. When he wants to slander murder victims because of their families or who the people in their church are, ignore him. When he wants to brag about how he'd beat his daughter if she got lippy so it's ok if the cops do, ignore him. When he wants to call you names and insult you (in just a vague and incoherent enough way that the mods can't slap him for it ) ignore him. It's the worst thing you can do to an attention whoring troll. And Lord knows he deserves it. Lay down with dogs get up with fleas indeed.
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Group think challenged?
We have here seensome interesting things . We have an incident where guys mom calls 911 about her son with a knife, his neighbor describes a knife and if we watch the unedited video we see the cop remove the knife and still have posters that talk about alleged knife or "what knife"
Its a hoot
I think a thread about the various reasons folks minds work like that would be interesting but might injure some feelings. Had a real good one the other night with a group of young folks with some experience in the topic st hand. Some of their observations might bruise some adult images. The kids are a big surprise sometimes
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Well, I tried to watch the OP video but it has been made private.
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Well, I tried to watch the OP video but it has been made private.
Here's a link from csd's own post, (supposedly disputing the original video, it's from a real news source ya know)
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas/surveillance-footage-disputes-dallas-police-affidavit-officer-involved-shooting--mentally-ill-228252551.html
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Cordex: the percentage is an exaggeration but not that much. Think about it. Cops who are outright serious felons, cops who only break the little laws they know they can get "professional courtesy" for like speeding
So the bar for "bad cop" is set to "Drives like Balog and most other folks do when they think cops aren't around"? If someone is "bad" because they violate traffic regulations and laws they don't agree with whenever they think they can get away with it, then we might as well label 98% of our society as "bad".
or DUI,
I'm not sure how much that really happens. I can think of one high profile case locally where impropriety surrounding evidence handling was alleged to get a cop off on a DUI charge, but he's in court now with plenty of public outcry against him, so I'm not sure how that is going to play out. We've had a deputy prosecutor get a nice tickle on the wrist for DUI from the judicial side, but that isn't what you're talking about. Beyond that, we have had a number of DUI arrests of cops who get treated just like everyone else who gets caught drinking and driving.
the cops who enable them by staring at their thin blue lines,
Plenty of cops get arrested for a variety of offenses. Domestics, DUI, etc. They get arrested, they go to jail, they often lose their jobs. The "thin blue line" exists, but it isn't the universal get-out-of-jail free card you seem to think.
the cops who work for the myriad of agencies that practice civil asset forfeiture,
I have zero love for civil asset forfeiture.
and all members of the agencies that are criminal organization in uniform like Chicago PD/ New Orleans PD etc.
I can't argue with that either, but then again I don't know anyone from those departments and maybe I'm unfairly judging them.
the "good cops" are a pretty damn small minority.
The thing is, unless you believe driving 10 over on the interstate like everyone else does makes an officer a "bad cop", they aren't a minority. I'm not an expert on police behavior, but I've had the opportunity to see, deal with and get to know maybe 10 or 15 cops on and/or off duty on a regular basis. There is plenty of variety within that group but not a single one that I would describe as "bad".
That doesn't mean that I don't believe bad cops exist - they certainly do. That doesn't mean that I like everything that cops do - I certainly don't. However, the obnoxious hyperbole that you and others repeatedly exercise in trying to justify how much you dislike all cops is beneath you. The fact is, you rely on dog-bites-man news reports of honestly bad cops, other cases of truly bad reporting, and grudges you have over tickets you've received to condemn a group of people as a whole.
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I still don't see why two cops with guns already drawn need to shoot a mentally ill man holding a knife down at his side (assuming there actually was a knife) from that distance away.
=|
Remember the cops approached him. This isn't quite like some self defense case where some guy walks up with a knife in his hand and says "your money or you life."
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I still don't see why two cops with guns already drawn need to shoot a mentally ill man holding a knife down at his side (assuming there actually was a knife) from that distance away.
I agree. I didn't see anything in the video that explicitly justified that shoot. Doesn't mean it was necessarily murder, but it sure didn't look good to me.
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I still don't see why two cops with guns already drawn need to shoot a mentally ill man holding a knife down at his side (assuming there actually was a knife) from that distance away.
=|
Remember the cops approached him. This isn't quite like some self defense case where some guy walks up with a knife in his hand and says "your money or you life."
That is where I am on this also. If there was some period of time between arrival and shooting, I might assume some efforts were made to end it peacefully, but it appears they just showed up and shot him. We hear about tasers and bean bag rounds for shotguns and all sorts of things, but we still end up with cases like this where the suspect is a nail and cops only carry hammers (Glock Hammers).
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Cordex: a cop who spends all day writing tickets for breaking X law, then breaks X law himself knowing he's highly unlikely to be punished for it does indeed count as a "bad" cop in my mind. If you've no issues with "laws for thee but not for me" if the punishment is small then I guess we'll need to agree to disagree.
Edit: And even you would be hard pressed to deny that the system is far more lenient on cops than other civilians. Remember that funny story about the cop who stole weed from the evidence room, got really high, and then called 9/11? He got fired. What do you think you or I would be charged with if we stole evidence from a police station, had a large quantity of marijuana (intent to distribute zomg!) etc? Between sovreign immunity and the buddy buddy slap on the wrist losing their job is punishment enough attitudes, even for the few cops who do get held accountable for their crimes the punishment is usually far less. They're sort of like rich celebrities who get community service and parole for offenses that Joe Dude on the street would be seeing time for.
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Cordex: a cop who spends all day writing tickets for breaking X law, then breaks X law himself knowing he's highly unlikely to be punished for it does indeed count as a "bad" cop in my mind. If you've no issues with "laws for thee but not for me" if the punishment is small then I guess we'll need to agree to disagree.
If you're going to set the bar that low then it isn't just a problem of 98% of cops being "bad" cops, it really is more like 98% of all people being bad people.
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If you're going to set the bar that low then it isn't just a problem of 98% of cops being "bad" cops, it really is more like 98% of all people being bad people.
Non-cops don't enforce the laws they break on others, now do they? Breaking a stupid law is all fine and dandy, but when you make your living by enforcing that law...
Are you really saying you have no qualms about a cop enforcing laws against others, yet breaking those same laws himself with impunity?
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Are you really saying you have no qualms about a cop enforcing laws against others, yet breaking those same laws himself with impunity?
Cordex:
This is the part that makes a bad cop.
Cops breaking the stupidly low speed limit laws- does not make a bad cop.
Cops KNOWING they can break the laws because other cops won't ticket them and proceeding to break the laws= bad cop.
Cops FACILITATING the breaking of laws by their buddies = bad cop.
If police officers got tickets just like the rest of the population, (in my opinion, they ought actually to be held to a higher standard, but at least the same standard would be equal), they wouldn't be bad cops for breaking the stupid laws that nearly everyone else breaks.
Using the position as an enforcer of the law to avoid the consequences of breaking the law (no matter how small or stupid) is corruption and cronyism.
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Well, I tried to watch the OP video but it has been made private.
Its a cleverly shortened version of the longer vid in the link to the news source below it. It had narration from the shot guys neighbors. I do find it amazing how he cuts the video and narration off when he did
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Non-cops don't enforce the laws they break on others, now do they? Breaking a stupid law is all fine and dandy, but when you make your living by enforcing that law...
Laws aren't the only rules we live by nor police the only enforcers of those rules. Surely you aren't saying that if the punishment is small that it is somehow different.
Are you really saying you have no qualms about a cop enforcing laws against others, yet breaking those same laws himself with impunity?
No, I'm saying that hypocrisy in traffic enforcement (which for many officers is a small portion of what they do anyway) is not the same thing as a cop who steals, plants evidence, shoots people unnecessarily, etc. Your Boolean judgement of "bad cop" doesn't distinguish between an officer who doesn't bother to fix the plate light on his personal vehicle because he knows he won't get a ticket and one who habitually steals, rapes and murders. It cheapens the idea of what a bad cop is when it includes people who are good people doing a good job even if they sometimes do something you and I don't care for.
And that is what I'm saying. That a cop who pulls people over and may or may not ticket for traffic infractions that he or she typically ignores can still be a good cop.
Cops breaking the stupidly low speed limit laws- does not make a bad cop.
Cops KNOWING they can break the laws because other cops won't ticket them and proceeding to break the laws= bad cop.
Cops FACILITATING the breaking of laws by their buddies = bad cop.
Do you believe that police should mindlessly enforce all infractions they see no matter who is breaking the law and why, or do you believe that some level of discretion is acceptable?
Also interesting that it is somehow okay for you to break the law but not the cops. Isn't that kind of a "laws for thee, not for me" attitude?
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It's varying degrees of "bad" but it's still bad. Corruption in the smalls things and corruption in the large things are differences of degree not type.
Ultimately the problem is having traffic laws that are nonsensical and designed to be capriciously enforced. But I hold the people on the ground implementing bad laws to the same standard as the people writing them.
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Also interesting that it is somehow okay for you to break the law but not the cops. Isn't that kind of a "laws for thee, not for me" attitude?
It is okay for me to break the law if I'm willing to face the consequences. It is not okay for cops to break the law knowing they will not face any consequences. It is even less okay for a cop to enforce those same laws that he flaunts breaking.
And there are degrees of bad.
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I think its a lot simpler than that its the grade school whine of "its not faaaiirr! " in an adult playground
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I think its a lot simpler than that its the grade school whine of "its not faaaiirr! " in an adult playground
Yep, that's exactly what it is.
It's because I believe in this childish idea of "equality before the law."
I also have a problem with the salary/benefits that are lavished upon public servants. But I don't see that as a matter of equal standing before the law, so I don't fault the police officers for trying to get the best benefit/salary package they can. I fault politicians.
My problem is that the individuals who enforce the law are held to lower standards than those they enforce it against.
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Yep, that's exactly what it is.
It's because I believe in this childish idea of "equality before the law."
I also have a problem with the salary/benefits that are lavished upon public servants. But I don't see that as a matter of equal standing before the law, so I don't fault the police officers for trying to get the best benefit/salary package they can. I fault politicians.
My problem is that the individuals who enforce the law are held to lower standards than those they enforce it against.
how do you feel about doctors and nurses?
They kill quite a few each year with relative impunity and cover from colleagues. Or lawyers? They kill relatively few but are self regulated
Or teachers who have sex with students? And the colleagues who know cover for or even support them?
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Yep, that's exactly what it is.
It's because I believe in this childish idea of "equality before the law."
I also have a problem with the salary/benefits that are lavished upon public servants. But I don't see that as a matter of equal standing before the law, so I don't fault the police officers for trying to get the best benefit/salary package they can. I fault politicians.
My problem is that the individuals who enforce the law are held to lower standards than those they enforce it against.
Dude, we just covered this.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.web-social.fr%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2Ftroll.jpg&hash=873d048ca18c33f5cbe666379aa4b715922605aa)
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It's varying degrees of "bad" but it's still bad. Corruption in the smalls things and corruption in the large things are differences of degree not type.
Ultimately the problem is having traffic laws that are nonsensical and designed to be capriciously enforced. But I hold the people on the ground implementing bad laws to the same standard as the people writing them.
That has a familiar ring to it...
"The world has long observed that small acts of immorality, if repeated, will destroy character. It is equally manifest, though never said, that uttering nonsense and half-truth without cease ends by destroying Intellect."
----Jacques Barzun
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how do you feel about doctors and nurses?
They kill quite a few each year with relative impunity and cover from colleagues. Or lawyers? They kill relatively few but are self regulated
Or teachers who have sex with students? And the colleagues who know cover for or even support them?
In order:
Worse. Much worse. Much worse.
Corruption is corruption. By refusing to root out those in your profession who "make mistakes" (commit crimes), you encourage more who will do the same.
I don't expect any profession to clean itself up barring either a complete collapse of our country and/or a Revival. These "petty" corruptions will get worse as the country does as well.
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That has a familiar ring to it...
"The world has long observed that small acts of immorality, if repeated, will destroy character. It is equally manifest, though never said, that uttering nonsense and half-truth without cease ends by destroying Intellect."
----Jacques Barzun
I was more thinking of this.
One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.
God is obviously just a childish whiner. =D
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In order:
Worse. Much worse. Much worse.
Corruption is corruption. By refusing to root out those in your profession who "make mistakes" (commit crimes), you encourage more who will do the same.
I don't expect any profession to clean itself up barring either a complete collapse of our country and/or a Revival. These "petty" corruptions will get worse as the country does as well.
Gee, almost as if prevailing cultural corruption and slipping social morality might (just might!) have an effect on the way folk conduct their lives.
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Statist.
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So the bar for "bad cop" is set to "Drives like Balog and most other folks do when they think cops aren't around"? If someone is "bad" because they violate traffic regulations and laws they don't agree with whenever they think they can get away with it, then we might as well label 98% of our society as "bad".
However, 98 percent of us "civilians" don't expect to be let off for speeding, reckless driving, or DUI without even a written warning, just because of a shiny piece of metal and/or an ID card in a wallet. And, as posted, the cops who give their brethren in uniform those breaks are equally wrong, and they count toward the 98 percent because they are NOT ... ENFORCING ... THE ... LAW when they cut their brethren those breaks.
Do you believe that police should mindlessly enforce all infractions they see no matter who is breaking the law and why, or do you believe that some level of discretion is acceptable?
Slippery slope alert: Once you accept that an official whose job is to "enforce" (not "interpret") the law should be allowed discretion in which laws he/she chooses to enforce, where do you draw the line as to which laws it's okay to ignore as opposed to which laws he/she should NOT be allowed to choose to ignore?
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We are veering way off course..... One factor not included in this is that police officers today are taxmen. They catch you and you pay a fine. The fine is a tax, it adds to the cities' coffers. They are less likely to let anyone off except for a fellow officer or official.
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And, as posted, the cops who give their brethren in uniform those breaks are equally wrong, and they count toward the 98 percent because they are NOT ... ENFORCING ... THE ... LAW when they cut their brethren those breaks.
Does it count as NOT ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!!!111!!! when they let off non-LE with a warning?
Slippery slope alert: Once you accept that an official whose job is to "enforce" (not "interpret") the law should be allowed discretion in which laws he/she chooses to enforce, where do you draw the line as to which laws it's okay to ignore as opposed to which laws he/she should NOT be allowed to choose to ignore?
If we were talking about felonies or serious misdemeanors then I would usually agree, but minor infractions like speeding? No thanks, I don't like the idea of zero tolerance, and I don't think that police would ever find time to address any significant crime if they had to cite every infraction they saw. Seems to me that I probably wouldn't have to do much searching on APS to find you coming out against zero tolerance policies elsewhere. Not sure why you've suddenly become a supporter - zero tolerance is a slippery slope of its own.
We are veering way off course..... One factor not included in this is that police officers today are taxmen. They catch you and you pay a fine. The fine is a tax, it adds to the cities' coffers. They are less likely to let anyone off except for a fellow officer or official.
I know there are police whose primary job is traffic enforcement, but that is hardly universal. As I've said, I do know some police personally and none of them focus on citations. The people who get them tend to be people who have endangered people through violation. The vast majority of stops lead to simple warnings. Last time I asked only about 10% of my closest LEO friend's traffic stops ended up with tickets. He showed me his annual report behind that number.
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Does it count as NOT ENFORCING THE LAW!!!!!!111!!! when they let off non-LE with a warning?
I'm pretty sure "warning ticket" is just an urban legend.
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I'm pretty sure "warning ticket" is just an urban legend.
Um, I've personally received a two written warnings (from officers that I did not know) and seen literally dozens of people let off with written and verbal warnings.
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Um, I've personally received a two written warnings (from officers that I did not know) and seen literally dozens of people let off with written and verbal warnings.
I've probably got about 8-10 written warnings and quite a few verbal warnings (mostly speeding, one written was for a tail-light out. Yes it was really out)
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I've only personally known 4 LEO so far. Of the four, 2 were into drugs (grass & speed), one cheated on his wife numerous times with various "ladies" (maybe not technically a crime) and the 4th is currently knowingly breaking state law by flooding his neighbors' property. And every one of them drove over the posted speed limits regularly.
Very small field to draw conclusions from, but it's enough to make me go "hmmmm".
Re the OP, seems like a bad shoot to me. There are many reports by LE on the numerous "less than lethal" responses they have available - they should have tried one or two before going in for the kill.
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I've only personally known 4 LEO so far. Of the four, 2 were into drugs (grass & speed), one cheated on his wife numerous times with various "ladies" (maybe not technically a crime) and the 4th is currently knowingly breaking state law by flooding his neighbors' property. And every one of them drove over the posted speed limits regularly.
Very small field to draw conclusions from, but it's enough to make me go "hmmmm".
Re the OP, seems like a bad shoot to me. There are many reports by LE on the numerous "less than lethal" responses they have available - they should have tried one or two before going in for the kill.
A whole ring of them were busted here recently for providing security after hours at an illegal horse racing track.
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Yea there are bad folks in groups
https://www.google.com/search?q=marines+indicted&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
https://www.google.com/search?q=marine+murders&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
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And folks that let em get off
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/05/08/marine-convicted-of-rape-walks-without-prison-time.html
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/130822/9-us-soldiers-who-got-less-time-than-manning
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And docs nurses and teachers
Ugly too
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals
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And folks that let em get off
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/05/08/marine-convicted-of-rape-walks-without-prison-time.html
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/130822/9-us-soldiers-who-got-less-time-than-manning
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Do keep in mind that being sentenced to a Regional Confinement Facility or the USDB is a far cry from doing time at State Pen. or the like. Also there are matters of mitigation and extenuation that are taken into account at both sentencing and parole. (One learns very quickly not to be a hard case while in military custody.)
And docs nurses and teachers
Ugly too
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-many-die-from-medical-mistakes-in-us-hospitals
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There's a huge difference (apparently lost on you) between some doing their best to save lives and making an inadvertent mistake and some pointing a gun at a person and pulling the trigger.
Shall we now compare apples to bananas or grapefruit, as it's seems we've finished with oranges?
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I shoulda been more specific about some of those docs killing folks and the how/why. You sure you want me too? They didn't like it at grm much. The numbers are real grim. Drug impaired docs and nurses large numbers of their peers aware but keeping silent.
And in some cases continuing to practice
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For example
1in three docs admit they don't report impaired or incompetent colleagues.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/13/us-impaired-colleagues-idUSTRE66C5TO20100713
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Or
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/angels/female_nurses/index.html
It will get kinda monotonous. There are hundreds
Holler if these are enough
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/27/afghanistan.coverup.case/
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/stepdad-takes-swing-soldier-killed-kid-cover-obama-assassination-plot-article-1.1148820
And an unimpeachable source
http://www.dailypaul.com/57037/army-cover-up-female-soldiers-raped-and-murdered-by-fellow-soldiers
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Teachers?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/05/14235370-prosecutors-nj-teachers-had-sexual-relations-with-students-colleagues-covered-it-up
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130820/SCHOOLS/308200084
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Engineers?
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2011/07/14/massachusetts_transportation_secretary_suspends_big_dig_engineer/
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I shoulda been more specific about some of those docs killing folks and the how/why. You sure you want me too? They didn't like it at grm much. The numbers are real grim. Drug impaired docs and nurses large numbers of their peers aware but keeping silent.
And in some cases continuing to practice
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My animosity to doctors is even stronger that my dislike of (most) cops. :lol:
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My animosity to doctors is even stronger that my dislike of (most) cops. :lol:
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i hear ya
But i will always like the one who checked out first born after emergency c-section. He told me "shes fine" and i said "thanks doc. I owe you one. You ever need a favor, someone killed i'm your guy"
Nurses laughed. Doc saw my eyes didn't laugh
Him and the guy that told mom about an experimental,treatment that bought her 8 more years are ok with me.
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The one good thing I can say about doctors is that they don't (yet) come to your house and break your door down to cut you open and take something out.
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I've got a good doc i changed insurance to keep him
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Can we get someone to spam the forum with more links please? ;/
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CSD:
Do you read the examples you cite in your posts?
I wonder, because the majority of them consist of agents of the gov't doing wrong, abusing their authority while taking the taxpayers' dollars. (state gov't engineers, teachers, .mil). Not the sort of thing to bolster your argument, such as it is.
You also might recall a thread we had a while back where a teacher who had sex with their student and fellow teachers rallied to his or her defense. The general consensus was not charitably disposed toward those teachers. So, no, it doesn't look like APS lets them off the hook, either.
And then there is the gross category error, conflating ethical & moral lapses with illegal acts as well as not understanding the relationship involved between occupation and questionable action(1).
I am not sure what you are trying to argue, but you have effectively argued "Agents of the state have too much authority, abuse it on a regular basis, and ought to be shorn of much of their authority & held accountable." Your posts in this thread seem analogous to the Zimmerman prosecution where they were unable to convict Zimmerman of murder, but it sure seems they convicted Martin of assault.
(1) "LEOs who break the law ~! Doctors who work while inebriated." Something like "LEOs who break the law ~ Doctors who deliberately infect patients" or "LEOs who break the law ~ Nurses who inject patients with poison" would be closer.
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I was bringing the circle the wagons protect our brothers syndrome in other careers out.
And i believe i won't have to try too hard to find that within aps
Cavalry arms?
Or any of a dozen other times when the "gun guy " was right in defiance of the evidence.or often in the absence of any evidence just based on "hes one of us"
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http://forums.militarytimes.com/showthread.php?1582825-Former-Army-Ranger-Ray-Girouard-Ex-soldier-tells-his-story-of-Iraqi-deaths
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Is there some variation of the "Thin Blue Line" in other professions? Hell yeah
Does that somehow excuse what these officers did? Not in the slightest
Check out "cops writing cops" sometime. That was my eye opener to the Thin Blue Line, and just how bad it is. And I personally know several folks who were good cops, and quit because of it
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Let me see if I understand.
Since there are bad teachers and bad doctors and bad marines that makes it ok for ther to be bad cops.
Gotcha.
Doesn't matter if it's a bad cop or a dangerous doctor. The ones that look the other way or cover for them are just as much filth as the bad apple.
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in this case the most you can hope for is them getting busted for lying. and oddly the cop who didn't shoot has most exposure on that.
the shooter can stick with his belief of what he thought he saw and get administrative action.
these cases are fuel for the school of thought that says one shoot and off the street
damn phone
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dallas-officer-shot-mentally-ill-man-fired-20671684
A Dallas police officer who shot a mentally ill man in a disputed incident caught on tape has been fired and charged with felony aggravated assault, police said Thursday.
Police Chief David Brown apologized for the actions of Officer Cardan Spencer, who had been on administrative leave following the Oct. 14 shooting.
"Officers are not above the law," Brown said at a news conference. "We as a police department are not going to look the other way."
Spencer wrote in a police report that he shot Bobby Gerald Bennett last week after the 52-year-old man lunged at him and another officer with a knife. But video captured by a neighbor's surveillance camera shows Bennett didn't appear to move toward the officers before he was shot and crumpled to the ground.
Brown said two people who had witnessed the shooting from a nearby parked vehicle later came forward and corroborated what could be seen on the video.
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Police Chief David Brown apologized for the actions of Officer Cardan Spencer
The chief should have talked to CSD first :facepalm:
:P
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Take bets on how it plays out in court?
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Take bets on how it plays out in court?
Mistrial and the prosecutor doesn't reprosecute the case. (tie-breaker: the jury splits 10-2 to convict)
Another possibility is the prosecutor soft-sells it to the grand jury and they "no-bill", but I think it'll go to trial.
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good possibilities. i would not be surprised if it dies before trial.
how does it work in texas? how/who sets the aggravated assault charge?
damn phone
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You should fly out there and provide him with legal advice.
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Hes got a union lawyer. I say it dies in pretrial. But he could end up with a bench trial. I think he can beat getting fired.
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Hes got a union lawyer. I say it dies in pretrial. But he could end up with a bench trial. I think he can beat getting fired.
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Do you think he can beat getting fired despite being caught lying? I can understand doubts being cast on a criminal charge. I guess it depends on how strong and connected that union is.
I heard someone ask elsewhere about dash cam footage. I am very curious if that exists or if the camera was turned off. They are in the middle of the street. There ought to be nice clear dash cam footage of the entire incident.
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if i was still a union shop steward i could win in arbitration.
i would keep focus on "what he believed happened" at the time.
he screwed the pooch but they are protected to some degree for screwing up. the hard part is the lie. your only avenue is to pitch it as he honestly believed the guy made a threatening move.
the shooter can play the previous incident card as well. it places some of the onus back on the dept.
damn phone
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Hallucinations are a defense, now ???
:P
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if i was still a union shop steward i could win in arbitration.
i would keep focus on "what he believed happened" at the time.
he screwed the pooch but they are protected to some degree for screwing up. the hard part is the lie. your only avenue is to pitch it as he honestly believed the guy made a threatening move.
the shooter can play the previous incident card as well. it places some of the onus back on the dept.
damn phone
For a normal person, that would work for a defense against murder, but not manslaughter. IMO, if he believes something that isn't true, it does not speak well of his judgement as a police officer. I guess we shall see.
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and since we are looking at aggravated assault...and the guy did have a knife.
oh i think hes done as a cop.
i will see if i can dig out that study on cops and shooting. it covered the concepts that in a second shoot don't shoot situation retreads often get out of their training. the ones that were behind the curve in the first shoofing can be too quick in a second event. and some who have second thoughts or regrets about the firstvtime are too slow. both are liabilities. it also discussed whether a cop should be retired after a shooting and why management was not on board with that.
damn phone
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Cross-examining Lawyer: Mister Cogburn, in your four years as US Marshal, how many men have you shot?
Rooster Cogburn: Shot? Or killed?
Cross-examining Lawyer: Let us restrict it to killed so we may have a manageable figure!
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Not the study i was looking for but might be worth looking at.
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/117909-Study-reveals-important-truths-hidden-in-the-details-of-officer-involved-shootings/
Don't laugh too much but is it unreasonable to find a paper from 20 years ago on the net.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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The cop was hired by the Feds. Apparently he will be placed on a grocery store task force, cash deposit investigation team.
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I too think that police should be automatically retired after a shooting. It stresses that using your firearm isn´t a "ho-hum it´s Tuesday" event. I wonder what effect such a policy would have on the number of "charging" dogs in the community. I do believe suddenly it will be foud that dogs don't quite "charge" as much as they used to.
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I too think that police should be automatically retired after a shooting. It stresses that using your firearm isn´t a "ho-hum it´s Tuesday" event. I wonder what effect such a policy would have on the number of "charging" dogs in the community. I do believe suddenly it will be foud that dogs don't quite "charge" as much as they used to.
Would that retirement include retirement pay & benefits, as if they'd stayed employed by the PD to the minimum age required for "normal" retirement?
If so, I can see some taking an early retirement.
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Would that retirement include retirement pay & benefits, as if they'd stayed employed by the PD to the minimum age required for "normal" retirement?
If so, I can see some taking an early retirement.
it pays better than that its a job related disability
and therein lies the rub. admins don't like that cost
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sounds like it would be an incentive to shoot someone.
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sounds like it would be an incentive to shoot someone.
i think they call that projection. amongst other things
now amongst folks who have actually shot folks, not to be confused with folks beating their gums about it on the internet, i've never seen that. cops military or civilians.
seen some of each group talk smack but no real players just the poseurs
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admins don't like that cost
Neither does this taxpayer.
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I don't like the idea of a (good*) shoot being a career ending move.
Trouble is that every police shooting is a "good" shoot ;/ =(
* we all know that some people just need shooting
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I don't like the idea of a (good*) shoot being a career ending move.
Trouble is that every police shooting is a "good" shoot ;/ =(
* we all know that some people just need shooting
Sorry, you must have missed this:
A Dallas police officer who shot a mentally ill man in a disputed incident caught on tape has been fired and charged with felony aggravated assault, police said Thursday.
Police Chief David Brown apologized for the actions of Officer Cardan Spencer, who had been on administrative leave following the Oct. 14 shooting.
"Officers are not above the law," Brown said at a news conference. "We as a police department are not going to look the other way."
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While it maybe true, but give the police enough time and the
victim perp, will have been found to be into, kiddie pron, cheated on his taxes, sold drugs, gambled in overseas casinos, invested in bitcoin, and anything else that would make it a good shooting.
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Sorry, you must have missed this:
"Administrative leave" and he might even get fired for murder =|
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"Administrative leave" and he might even get fired for murder =|
Sorry, you must have missed this:
A Dallas police officer who shot a mentally ill man in a disputed incident caught on tape has been fired and charged with felony aggravated assault, police said Thursday.
Also, did the guy end up dying?
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Not that it was aggressive behavior but how does aggressive behavior give the cops the right to shoot someone? I thought the standard was fear for their life? I guess that standard has gone out the window.
That was replaced a decade or more ago by, "They just want to go home at the end of their shift." That's the new mantra that justifies all excessive use of lethal force by the police.