Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Balog on June 25, 2013, 02:27:38 AM
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http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-246_7l48.pdf
I think it's a legally correct interpretation of Miranda that is a complete desecration of both the letter and spirit of the Fifth Amendment.
Volokh's take. http://www.volokh.com/2013/06/17/do-you-have-a-right-to-remain-silent-thoughts-on-the-sleeper-criminal-procedure-case-of-the-term-salinas-v-texas/
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You have the right to self incrimination. Anything you say or don't say will be used against you. IOW, it's fabulous.
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Yet another decision where the Klueless Kourt assumes that everyone has had a legal education at an Ivy league school. Or has the money and will to drag a lawyer around 24/7 a la Raul Duke and Dr. Gonzo.
The practical advice that falls out of this is "Don't talk to the police outside of minimal responses regarding a traffic ticket or such." But, we already knew that since Martha Stewart & Scooter Libby went to prison for disagreeing with their interrogators.
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Mostly, my thoughts are not to be posted on a public forum :mad:
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Does this mean that the Jury Boxâ„¢ can finally be crossed off the list? When people suggest relying on them to defend liberty I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry any more.
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I hate the speculative bullscat loophole it allows prosecutors and cops to drive an 18 wheeler full of dung through.
Prosecutor: And when you asked the defendant if he committed the murder, how did he react?
Arresting Cop: He sat there quietly for a moment, then I saw the awareness that he had been caught red-handed creep into his eyes and he looked like he was trying to come up with a lie to cover his tracks.
P: So in your professional opinion, he looked nervous and intent on manufacturing a cover story?
AC: Yep, that's it. In my professional opinion.
P: No further questions.
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Sounds to me that the correct course of action in any and all dealings with law enforcement that you do not initiate, is to assert your 5th Amendment rights as soon as contact is made.
Cop: What are.....?
Subject: I respectfully refuse to answer any questions based on the rights guaranteed me under the 5th amendment.
That 5th amendmnet can be a tricky devil.
I learned a little about that the onetime I pushed things a little too far and got to learn about Article 15 of the UCMJ up close and personal, Disrespect to a superior officer was the charge. I kind of had a shouting match with my LCDR Dept. Head in the wardroom, in front of the XO and about 5 other people. I was later told that if it had just been based on the shouting match and points scored I would have been a clear winner.
One of the first things they handed me to sign was a waiver of my 5th amendment rights. I declined to sign it. You would have thought I had whizzed on the captains shoes by the reaction that got. The command didn't know how to deal with it and had to confer with the JAG boys. They then came back and again asked me to sign it, I declined again. When they asked me why I simply told them that until someone can tell me how it would be in my interest to do so I wasn't going to sign away a constitutionaly protected right. Again off to the JAG boys and then they told me I had to sign it, sorry not happening. The command kept insisting that I had to sign the waiver and finally I asked for legal counsel in the matter, that wasn't going to hapen either. I think the XO actually busted a blood vessel when I did that. After about a week of that they finally just gave up. (I wouldn't be surprised to find out someone forged my signature on the waiver)
Anyway, I eventuallly went to Captain's Mast and the charge was dismissed, not so much as a reprimand. Lots of back story and personal intrigue involved.
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...One of the first things they handed me to sign was a waiver of my 5th amendment rights. I declined to sign it. You would have thought I had whizzed on the captains shoes by the reaction that got. The command didn't know how to deal with it and had to confer with the JAG boys. They then came back and again asked me to sign it, I declined again. When they asked me why I simply told them that until someone can tell me how it would be in my interest to do so I wasn't going to sign away a constitutionaly protected right. Again off to the JAG boys and then they told me I had to sign it, sorry not happening. The command kept insisting that I had to sign the waiver and finally I asked for legal counsel in the matter, that wasn't going to hapen either. I think the XO actually busted a blood vessel when I did that. After about a week of that they finally just gave up. (I wouldn't be surprised to find out someone forged my signature on the waiver)
Anyway, I eventuallly went to Captain's Mast and the charge was dismissed, not so much as a reprimand. Lots of back story and personal intrigue involved.
Hmmmm.
This should have been an episode of that old TV show JAG. I wonder what Harmon Rabb would have done? [tinfoil]
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I wonder what Harmon Rabb would have done? [tinfoil]
No, no, no. We all know RKL would have requested:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmumbaihangout.net%2Fworld-pics%2FCatherine%2520Bell%2F3041616223373675636_412d9f4d3a.jpg&hash=de8f3387450c89dff94f73833875ed6af834e94c)
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Sounds to me that the correct course of action in any and all dealings with law enforcement that you do not initiate, is to assert your 5th Amendment rights as soon as contact is made.
Cop: What are.....?
Subject: I respectfully refuse to answer any questions based on the rights guaranteed me under the 5th amendment.
That 5th amendmnet can be a tricky devil.
I learned a little about that the onetime I pushed things a little too far and got to learn about Article 15 of the UCMJ up close and personal, Disrespect to a superior officer was the charge. I kind of had a shouting match with my LCDR Dept. Head in the wardroom, in front of the XO and about 5 other people. I was later told that if it had just been based on the shouting match and points scored I would have been a clear winner.
One of the first things they handed me to sign was a waiver of my 5th amendment rights. I declined to sign it. You would have thought I had whizzed on the captains shoes by the reaction that got. The command didn't know how to deal with it and had to confer with the JAG boys. They then came back and again asked me to sign it, I declined again. When they asked me why I simply told them that until someone can tell me how it would be in my interest to do so I wasn't going to sign away a constitutionaly protected right. Again off to the JAG boys and then they told me I had to sign it, sorry not happening. The command kept insisting that I had to sign the waiver and finally I asked for legal counsel in the matter, that wasn't going to hapen either. I think the XO actually busted a blood vessel when I did that. After about a week of that they finally just gave up. (I wouldn't be surprised to find out someone forged my signature on the waiver)
Anyway, I eventuallly went to Captain's Mast and the charge was dismissed, not so much as a reprimand. Lots of back story and personal intrigue involved.
I learned firsthand that one of the quickest ways to get rid of a bullshit Article 15 is to check the box that says " I demand trial by court martial"
http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pdf/A2627.pdf
Did that once for a bullshit article 15.
Next day, a BRAND NEW form was presented to me, along with the instructions "do not check that box"
My response: "It's there for a reason. I have the right to request a trial."
Checked it again.
That was the last i heard of it.
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No, no, no. We all know RKL would have requested:
http://mumbaihangout.net/world-pics/Catherine%20Bell/3041616223373675636_412d9f4d3a.jpg (http://mumbaihangout.net/world-pics/Catherine%20Bell/3041616223373675636_412d9f4d3a.jpg)
In a heart beat.
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I think the XO actually busted a blood vessel when I did that.
Oh, this guy: :lol:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.tvgcdn.net%2FMediaBin%2FGalleries%2FImported%2FMovies%2F6%2F37746a.jpg&hash=8c3c3f447644cc7c17a79b0b5eb1dc7bd76df7cd)
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I learned firsthand that one of the quickest ways to get rid of a bullshit Article 15 is to check the box that says " I demand trial by court martial"
http://armypubs.army.mil/eforms/pdf/A2627.pdf
Did that once for a bullshit article 15.
Next day, a BRAND NEW form was presented to me, along with the instructions "do not check that box"
My response: "It's there for a reason. I have the right to request a trial."
Checked it again.
That was the last i heard of it.
Not an option on an afloat command.
Oh, this guy: :lol:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.tvgcdn.net%2FMediaBin%2FGalleries%2FImported%2FMovies%2F6%2F37746a.jpg&hash=8c3c3f447644cc7c17a79b0b5eb1dc7bd76df7cd)
They had a lot in common.