Author Topic: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red  (Read 2217 times)

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« on: November 13, 2008, 02:08:28 PM »
Quote
By cutting back on spending the post office had a net operating income of $2.7 billion in 2008, but still ended up in the red because of the requirement for a $5.6 billion payment to a health benefit fund for retirees.

Even so, the $2.8 billion loss was well short of last year's $5.1 billion postal deficit.



http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94E7IMG0&show_article=1


Nick1911

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 02:14:29 PM »
I sense stamps going up again.

RadioFreeSeaLab

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 02:15:07 PM »
Yeah, you think?  Thank you god for email.

Manedwolf

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 02:17:01 PM »
There's a diner down the street from work.

Anytime I go in there, there is a mail deliverer sitting at the counter with the truck outside. Anytime. Early, late, they're in there. Which means they're probably in there for almost three hours every day, not delivering mail.

It does not surprise me, really.

Also, I just love getting my neighbor's mail constantly.

makattak

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 02:29:08 PM »
Hmm...

If this were a private entity, it would be failing under the burden of all those pension/health care payments.

I wonder where we might look for an example of that....

(Incidentally- all praise to the American Unions! Without them, we might have profitable manufacturing!)
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So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

just Warren

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »
We used to have great mail delivery in this country...then in the late 19th or early 20th century Congress outlawed it and gave a monopoly to the USPS. It's been a suck-fest ever since.
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Nick1911

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 02:30:46 PM »
Hmm...

If this were a private entity, it would be failing under the burden of all those pension/health care payments.

I wonder where we might look for an example of that....

(Incidentally- all praise to the American Unions! Without them, we might have profitable manufacturing!)

Why do you have the proletariat?


 =D

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 02:49:14 PM »
I sense stamps going up again.

That's going to cost us through the arse.
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bmitchell

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 03:11:33 PM »
My most frequent use of stamps in the past couple of years has been sending in my income tax forms.

So basically I have to pay to pay for getting paid.

Ben

makattak

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 03:15:51 PM »
My most frequent use of stamps in the past couple of years has been sending in my income tax forms.

So basically I have to pay to pay for getting paid getting less money stolen from me.

Ben

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I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Balog

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 03:38:41 PM »
How can people see the epic failure the feds make of every single damn thing they do, and want them to be in charge of banking and healthcare?
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makattak

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 03:42:00 PM »
How can people see the epic failure the feds make of every single damn thing they do, and want them to be in charge of banking and healthcare?

I ask this question every day.

I get told that they will run this one better... (whenever someone actually answers my question)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

zahc

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 04:33:33 PM »
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We used to have great mail delivery in this country...then in the late 19th or early 20th century Congress outlawed it and gave a monopoly to the USPS.

plz splain?
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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 06:26:34 PM »
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I ask this question every day.

I get told that they will run this one better...
Point them in the direction the .gov's present universal healthcare system - the VA. I have heard precious little good things about it. I hear about lost records, long wait times, bad doctors...

Bigjake

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2008, 09:38:20 PM »
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If this were a private entity, it would be failing under the burden of all those pension/health care payments.

No worries, we'll just bail them out too! 

Boomhauer

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2008, 09:45:21 PM »
I ask this question every day.

I get told that they will run this one better... (whenever someone actually answers my question)

The leftists always say that <insert gov't style or gov't program here> hasn't worked because the right people (namely they) haven't been in charge yet.
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Car Knocker

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 01:50:11 AM »
I can remember when postage was 3 cents and we got mail twice a day. Now, though the miracle of modern management, we get less for more and they're still going broke!
Don

just Warren

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 03:07:55 AM »
plz splain?

Gladly.

From William C Woolridge's 'Uncle Sam the Monopoly Man'

First even before there was a USA there was a private postal service. in 1710 The King had started his official and "legal" service, which charged high rates and was unsatisfactory. Then there were the illegal postal services. These riders would carry whatever they could for rates at least half of what the King wanted. They were hard to catch and when caught would not be convicted. And those that tried to catch them were subject to tar and feathers. This situation went on for some 60 years.

from 1770 to 1839 there does not appear to be many private carriers and the then United States Post Office may have been doing a good enough job to kept competetion at bay. Or it might be the historical record is incomplete.


Then in 1839, a sickly man named William F. Harnden who was looking to create a mostly stress-free job for himself invested his savings in a carpet bag and started the first American express-parcel company. He only set out to create an express parcel service not a letter carrying service as he did not want to break the law. But merchants begged him to carry letters for them..and soon he did. And soon after that the government made him a private contractor for the Boston-NY route. He carried about $20,000 dollars worth of "legal" mail  in 30 months which is thought to have been just around half of the total mail he carried in that time.

Harnden had competitors including on Alvin Adams, whose market cap for his postal business was one million dollars in 1854.


One of Harnden's employees was one Henry Wells who later joined forces with a Mr. Fargo...and expanded private mail service to all manner of frontier cities, including Buffalo NY. Wells started a Philly-NY route and charged 6 cents a letter, the gov charged 25 cents and could not be counted on the get the mail there on time. The government would arrest his men and the local citizens would bail them out.

Trying to stay on the right side of the law Wells-Fargo would carry letters in pre-stamped and thus taxed envelopes and people would still pay them to carry the letters. On the NY-San Fran route individuals would pay a premium of 9/12 cents so that they could avoid having the USPO carry their mail.

Another man who started a private mail business was Lysander Spooner, maybe you've heard of him. He also just nailed why government types do not like competition. Saying "government functionaries, secure in the enjoyment of warm nests, large salaries, official honors and power and presidential smiles, feel few quickening impulses to labor."

In 1843 in Boston there was a list in a local magazine that had 240 express companies with a Boston office on it. Every hotel would take mail to be delivered. The USPO tried many things but few cared about the laws that were passed.

Blood's New York Express was another company, it could be counted on to routinely make four deliveries and five collections in one day. This was in 1843! How many routine collections and deliveries to a single place daily does the USPS make these days?

In the 1845 the USPO was near extinction. In 5 years private carriers had captured up to half of all the mail service. The USPO finally responded with harsher laws and the three-cent rate which I do not remember but maybe some of our more seasoned ASP'rs might.

In 1883 the end finally came. In large cities private carriers were again flourishing and again outdoing the USPO. Congress had finally gotten around to closing all manner of loopholes and one Elihu Root won a case against a Rastus Ransom in front of the SCOTUS and the USPO later the USPS still holds the monopoly it was awarded from that case. The judges ruled that "A calamitous reduction" in USPO revenues would be the result if competition were allowed. They, in effect, admitted that the USPO could not compete.

So there is a basic look at private mail carrying in the US. I think it proves that we could eliminate the USPS and not notice any decline in service. Rates, yes, service, no.




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Nitrogen

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Re: Postal Service 2.8 billion in the red
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 03:38:12 AM »
I just love getting my neighbor's mail constantly.

There's a street nearby with a very similar name.  Both streets have a 2 word name, and the first word is the same.  The house with the same number as mine and I constantly trade each other's mail.

Though I can't really fault the USPS, because UPS does it, too.  But USPS does it constantly.

Strangely enough, the cost of mail delivering mail has varied greatly in inflation adjusted dollars.
Delivering a letter over 300 miles in 1845 cost $.10, or 2.20 in inflation adjusted dollars.
In 1863, the distance differential was eliminated, and the rate was $.03, or $.50 in inflation adjusted dollars.

Strangely enough, the rate stayed the same until 1958, when it started rising.  Then, it was $.04, or $.28 in inflation adjusted dollars. 

If you keep inflation in mind, the price of delivering mail has generally stayed around $.40  or so.
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