Author Topic: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA  (Read 3501 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« on: January 24, 2009, 11:31:52 AM »
I suspected this was going to happen.

https://secure.conservativedonations.com/minutemanhq/renew_registration.php/?a=2061

Quote
Active-for-Life
MinutemanCDC
GOLD ID Card
Now Only
$149
Offer Ends On 3/31/2009
Or $50 Annual Renewal

This really irks me.  Compare this against the following, alternate link:
https://secure.conservativedonations.com/minutemanhq/registration.php?a=100

The second link is the older registration method, where a volunteer pays for his background check (though when I did it it was $35, not $50) and then shows up on the line.  There were no membership dues... you paid for a background check and that was it.  There was no "annual" membership, and there was no goal to make the MCDC an organization for which a lifetime membership would be necessary.  It was intended to be a blitz organization with almost no infrastructure that collected information and relayed it back to the press and the US at large regarding our wretched border security.

50 years from now, MCDC will still be in existence, and the border issue will not be resolved. =|  I suspect that La Raza and the other Aztlan groups will also be equally institutionalized. 

This is lobbyists creating permanent cash cows for themselves rather than doing the jobs they were hired to do. 

It's just like the NRA, IMO.  Or March of Dimes.  It really gets my goat fistful.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

MicroBalrog

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 12:36:58 PM »
But, Redhawk, MCDC is the only organization capable of doing anything about the issue!

You whining about it isn't gonna help, just get over it and join! ;/
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

longeyes

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 12:41:02 PM »
Money talks and corruption can't be avoided.  I think if we want to play hard we're going to have to get organized and get a war chest.  The usual rules apply.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

Manedwolf

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2009, 01:31:10 PM »
Honestly, the Minutemen is helping the opposition. Some of the drawling, actually racist "induhviduals" with full mallninja loadout the media has found to interview are hardly good examples for the cause of border security. There was news a while back where they'd shown some of the San Diego members were "white aryan resistance" sorts. :P

Granted, I know that's not all of them, but the fact that that's the public perception via the media, well, that doesn't help the cause.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2009, 01:38:38 PM by Manedwolf »

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2009, 04:45:54 PM »
Money talks and corruption can't be avoided.  I think if we want to play hard we're going to have to get organized and get a war chest.  The usual rules apply.

There's more behind this than just the fact that two groups are drawing battle lines.

MCDC has not released its tax statements from 2007... the year they raised about 2 million dollars to begin construction of a prototype "israeli-style" security fence on the AZ border.  One man here in town took out a second mortgage on his house for $100K and donated it to the cause.

http://patriotsborderalliance.com/reversetimeline.html

The only fence that got built was a barbed-wire single strand cattle fence.  The money has not been accounted for. 

Folks got irritated, especially since MCDC allowed a larger Beltway-based consulting group called Deiner & Associates to take over fundraising, lobbying and organizational activities as a result of "growth." 

Some of the grassroots leadership folks held a meeting, demanding to see bylaws of MCDC as well as tax documents as required of the group's tax status.

To this day, no accounting has been made of the fence money, and it has been effectively argued that 90% or more of MCDC related funds have been siphoned by Deiner and associates.

Probably 1/2 or more of the MCDC split apart and left the group, forming PBA.  PBA has no dues and in fact part of its job is to bring MCDC back into account because it's been hijacked by Beltway neocon interests that want to institutionalize the illegal immigration fight.

I've participated with MCDC on several border watch events.  I know what infrastructure is in place and what it costs to put on a watch.  Next to nothing.  There's a comms nest with a GMRS radio repeater, with the applicable FCC license of $80 for 4 years.  The radio system isn't much to write home about... it has a range of about 15 miles to the handheld motorolla units.  Perhaps $2K or so for used equipment (and it was bought used), most of it was provided though by the crusty old farts that typically participate in MCDC events.  HAM radio guys, veterans, et cetera.

There's NO REASON for MCDC to need $50 a year from volunteers.  These people go down to the border and provide their experience over the last 5+ years, their voices when they go back home, their own equipment on the line, and also contribute financially to the landowners where the MCDC base camp is typically located.  The only justification for charging anything at all initially was to offset the cost of the background check.  And it was waived for folks who could produce a valid CCW permit.

What about the 2 million dollar "war chest" that is unaccounted for?

Balrog:  I'm already a member, having paid my background check and participated in many border watch activities up until the 2007 split and blow up over financial accountability.

Maned:  There are many groups that claim to be border watch minutemen that have no affiliation with the MCDC.  Two such groups operate out of Three Points, AZ very close to where MCDC used to operate.  They are the scary groups that are likely to follow the three "S" strategy.... they are desert-camoed, carry matching load out and consider themselves prepared for an exchange of fire with the meaner drug trains coming through.  I don't know the truth of their suppositions, but I know that MCDC-proper (as well as PBA) shuns their assistance in any operations, and that Border Patrol and FBI keep very close tabs on their operations.

MCDC and PBA both prohibit the mall ninja tac-loadout appearance or fact.  Folks on the line are certainly welcome to wear sidearms, but no long guns allowed.  You bring one, then keep it in your vehicle and out of sight.  Obviously, any yahoos parading rifles around in front of news cameras are not members of MCDC, as the core focus of the group (besides now making a buck for Deiner) is to bring factual information to the American public about the border situation... not to stop it themselves via force.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2009, 05:49:09 PM »
thats a damn shame the way the vultures of both types infiltrate and take away from the efforts of good honest well intentioned folks. while i might disagree with some of them even from this far away the change from grass roots to something less savory was visible.  i don't know  how you could prevent it once the number of people involved grew. and once the dc bloodsuckers move in all bets are off. in some ways their initial growth and sucess doomed them.
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

longeyes

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2009, 06:54:50 PM »
The "frontera" is not at the border; it's in D.C.

That's where the forces need to mass if we want political action.
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

john828

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 10:03:46 AM »
AZ,

I got a rather naive question.  Why not institutionalize?  Money is needed for many reasons.  Organization is needed.  Personnel can do more than volunteers since they get paid to focus on the issue 40-50 hours a week.  Sure there will be growing pains, and yes, there will be excesses or waste.  But, overall, MCDC needs money to survive. 

How long will your "Personal Life, LLP" survive without revenue?
My initial thought [for your next purchase] was to get a .22 lr or .22 mag but as you have one or five, I’d advise you purchase Spell Check---
~z

taurusowner

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 11:45:35 AM »
Quote
Maned:  There are many groups that claim to be border watch minutemen that have no affiliation with the MCDC.  Two such groups operate out of Three Points, AZ very close to where MCDC used to operate.  They are the scary groups that are likely to follow the three "S" strategy.... they are desert-camoed, carry matching load out and consider themselves prepared for an exchange of fire with the meaner drug trains coming through.  I don't know the truth of their suppositions, but I know that MCDC-proper (as well as PBA) shuns their assistance in any operations, and that Border Patrol and FBI keep very close tabs on their operations.

I honestly don't have a problem with those groups, though I live in Michigan and really don't know the situation.  But the drug traffickers and corrupt Mexican Army/Police need to be dealt with.  And the US Army and BP teams apparently aren't willing or allowed to do what needs to be done.  IMO, if some regular US civilians decide they're had enough and want to decisively deal with the invaders, more power to them.  Lobbying in Washington can only do so much.  Sooner or later real rounds need to be flung at the druggies and corrupt Mexican govt intruders for any real solutions to happen.

Boomhauer

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 12:24:01 PM »
I honestly don't have a problem with those groups, though I live in Michigan and really don't know the situation.  But the drug traffickers and corrupt Mexican Army/Police need to be dealt with.  And the US Army and BP teams apparently aren't willing or allowed to do what needs to be done.  IMO, if some regular US civilians decide they're had enough and want to decisively deal with the invaders, more power to them.  Lobbying in Washington can only do so much.  Sooner or later real rounds need to be flung at the druggies and corrupt Mexican govt intruders for any real solutions to happen.

If I was walking that border, I'd want a rifle and a good load out, plus more of my buddies doing the same. Not just a sidearm like the minutemen/PBA groups allow.

Maybe the Border Patrol needs to be doing their jobs instead of keeping tabs on those types of groups?



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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 12:57:45 PM »
AZ,

I got a rather naive question.  Why not institutionalize?  Money is needed for many reasons.  Organization is needed.  Personnel can do more than volunteers since they get paid to focus on the issue 40-50 hours a week.  Sure there will be growing pains, and yes, there will be excesses or waste.  But, overall, MCDC needs money to survive. 

How long will your "Personal Life, LLP" survive without revenue?

What the hell good is Deiner and Associates doing for the MCDC movement?

How often do you see immigration bills lobbied for that favor the MCDC-angle, proposed in DC?

Compared against... how often do you see immigration bills proposed in border states that are fed by real grass-roots work?

The grass-roots successes vastly outnumber any perceived gains.  MCDC was taking off like a rocket in terms of membership gains and political clout increase up until Deiner got involved.  Suddenly money flows become opaque, goals are not getting met WRT actual legislative or infrastructure (fence) projects, and rates of membership dwindle.

Consider this:  If you had a CCW permit and knew that you could add your name to the lists at MCDC in order to give more clout to the group, would you do it... provided it didn't cost you any more money?

Versus... if you wanted to support the organization by allowing them to represent your voice, but you had to give them $50 a year to do so.

Which group is going to have larger enrollment numbers?  And higher participation?

I think I spend about $500 a year on various group and club memberships... maybe more.  I'm not about to allow MCDC to become another part of that.  They aren't fighting correctly.  The biggest gains in the fight have come on the backs of volunteers who truly care about what's going on.  The most productive people have been the retired folks who have all day, all week, all month, all year to work on projects they truly care about.  They lobby their legislators.  They lobby their city councils.  They run petitions in front of grocery stores.  They get things like AZ Prop 200 and Prop 202 put together so that real progress gets made.

Dipping in to their funds at $50 a year for some ass-hat back in DC to collect the money and do nothing with it?  Hell, no.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

john828

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Re: Illegal Alien Issue is Institutionalizing like RKBA
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 07:43:49 AM »
Like I said it was a naive question on my part.  I am new to the issue.  Vote with your wallet.
My initial thought [for your next purchase] was to get a .22 lr or .22 mag but as you have one or five, I’d advise you purchase Spell Check---
~z