Questions for all you IT folks

[garrettwc]

I'm considering a career change.

I have thought about making my hobby (computers) into a job. I am smart enough to know that the real job probably bears no resemblance to the job in all those "Graduate from our school and be a zillionare geek in 6 months" ads.

My questions are what do you do (specific job function)? What's your typical day like? How's the job market? Are there some areas of specialization that are better or in more demand than others?

And anything else you think would be good information to have.

[jefnvk]

Graduate from our school and be a zillionare geek in 6 months

My friend followed one of those, while I went to a real university.  He's paying as much as me (Twice as much actually, total cost is the same, he's 2 years while I am 4), and has yet to do something I didn't do in high school.

Once I turned my computer hobby into a career path, though, I lost all interest.  All I wanna do now is learn to run milling machines and design things (Mech Eng).

[TarpleyG]

I have some college behind me, none of it in computers mind you.  I hate computers...absolutely hate the damned things.  But, they keep the lights on.  There is nothing glamorous about it and the job market is a zoo unless you have a very specific talent for certain things.  I was thinking about it just yesterday and today's computer jockeys are now probably considered blue collar, much like my father was back when he was working in a Motorola shop servicing police two-ways.  Oh, and every employer wants a minimum Bachelor degree and/or 5 to 10 years prior experience.  This helps weed out folks like you (no offense intended but it's just the way it is).  Best bet is to start off at a 1st level support helpdesk somewhere.  We have a company called The Answer Group here but most of their clients have outsourced to India.

Greg

[cfabe]

Carefully consider what the future of the IT job market is going to look like in 10 years. Personally I don't think it looks very good.

[garrettwc]

Tarpley, that's the kind of information I was looking for.

I work for a software company in the accounting group, so I could possibly make a lateral transfer, we had one guy who worked in the shipping warehouse, but had the aptitude and he was able to pull it off.

I know I wouldn't want to be a sys admin, our guys gets 3AM calls all the time and spends most of his day fixing network glitches or providing desktop support for people so clueless they shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer.

We have other guys that do special projects like the company intranet, or doing SQL to create special reports for our Oracle system. I think something like that is more what I would like. Some coding, some working with other people, projects, etc.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

You're looking in the right direction re: coding.

I'll give you my quick synopsis and impressions.

Graduated in 1985 with a Journalism/Communications Bachelor's.
Pretty much flailed around for a decade in low-paying sales and customer service jobs.  Finally, I went to work with a major appliance manufacturer, and got 4 promotions in 3 years to become a Manufacturer's Rep.  Good job, but I pissed off the wrong people and was shown the door.
A friend of a friend worked one of those "1st level support helpdesk" jobs, with EDS on a Toshiba account.  It was a good entree into the field, and before I knew it, I had progressed into a position with .gov contractors, and was learning a great deal, to include System and Exchange (email) Admin.

I currently am making more than I've ever made, having left .gov and moved south to a tiny town where I fix hardware, software and do installs and re-formats of a 1800 user campus with 17 buildings.  The company is huge, and has acquired a NUMBER of companies in the last few years; but they are a 105 year old textile manufacturer, and retain some very antiquated ways of doing business...the IT leadership is TOTALLY Good Ol' Boy network, and is more concerned about their tee times and being voted president of the TinyTown Chamber of Commerce than they are with leading an IT division effectively.

If I had to do it over, I would think of college NOT as a "classical education" where I can learn languages, literature etc.; but TOTALLY as a vocational training, to become a Cert Reg Nurse Anesthetist, a Sys Admin, a Programmer, an Engineer, or the like.

Currently, I need to fortify my 8 years experience in the field with some IT Certs, since I have none, and desperately need them to really take a further career step.

Hope this helps,
Fig


P.S. I also fix computers on the side, usually a couple per month just cleaning up spyware/virus issues and so on.  Provides a nice sideline of spending money for guns & stuff!

[cfabe]

If I had to do it over, I would think of college NOT as a "classical education" where I can learn languages, literature etc.; but TOTALLY as a vocational training, to become a Cert Reg Nurse Anesthetist, a Sys Admin, a Programmer, an Engineer, or the like.

This is what I did, got my BS in Computer Engineering and went to a school with a mandatory co-op program so I had work experience when I graduated. I'm now working for the company I co-oped with. For someone who wants to go into engineering, doing a co-op is a great way to get into the field. Unfortunately, in the 4 years I was in school the long term job outlook for engineering jobs changed and is not looking as promising.

Funny you should mention Nurse Anesthesia. This is my Mom's career. If I were just graduating highschool agian knowing what I know now, it's the field I would go into. Pay is excellent, can get good benefits and very flexible working situations. It's much more of a vocation than engineering, which I think I would prefer, actually. My mom's longest "projects" at work last a few hours; my longest projects last a year or more. Much less stress to take home with you at night. It's also not something that can be outsourced to china, and is a growing field as our population ages.

[Marnoot]

"I was thinking about it just yesterday and today's computer jockeys are now probably considered blue collar..."

This is true of IT support positions. Any IT position where you are supporting or maintaining existing systems is kind of headed in the direction. Systems Analysis, development, etc., remain well paying, considered white-collar, however as mentioned almost all jobs require 5+ years of experience. Makes it hard to get in. I'm doing it through contract work at the moment, just graduated in April. If I had to do it over again, I'd have majored in mechanical engineering, as jefnvk said, as that interests me more now. The future of IT is uncertain. I feel all support jobs, maintenance, etc. is all going to be outsourced. If you want to make a career out of IT, go the Systems Analysis route.

[jefnvk]

Another thing I keep having told to me, is to specialize.  I am not going to end up with a CS degree, like most of the people where I go to to school, but one of the off-sprouts of it.  Probably Computer System Science (more underlying systems, OS, networking, hardware-software interaction, development not fixing), but also likely Software Enginering (building stable critical systems, like for medical purposes).

Carefully consider what the future of the IT job market is going to look like in 10 years

It is still one of the highest growing careers.

[lee n. field]

My questions are what do you do (specific job function)? What's your typical day like? How's the job market? Are there some areas of specialization that are better or in more demand than others?

It's different when it's a job, then when it's a hobby.

What do I do?  I'm a technician.  I fix people's busted stuff.

Job market?  Last time I had to look (5 years ago), terrible.

What's my day like?  I fix people's busted stuff.  I (try to) talk to people (in terms they understand) about why their stuff is busted and how to keep it from getting busted again.  Do I get to work with cool stuff?  Not nearly enough.  Scouring out spyware on some clanky busted-a** XP Home machine is far more common than tracking down some interensting configuration problem on a *nix server.  Do I get to set things up "my way"?  Darn seldom.

[Sindawe]

It's different when it's a job, then when it's a hobby.

Ain't that the truth.  Used to be 'puters were the hobby.  Now that I'm a SysAdmin, I spent a portion of my hobby time thinking about how to retrofit the basement with gene sequences, tissue culture facilities and the like (stuff I used to do for work).

The grass is always greener....

[charby]

I'm a IT specialist for my career. I spend most of my day fixing little problems, such as spyware and/or trojans. Outside of those problems it configuring new machines and loadign software. I do manage a couple file servers but other than running manual backups, windows or mac updates and adding new account names I don't do a whole helluva lot with them. I also do a lot of website creation but mostly basic pages for professors to share data files via a webite to their students. Budgets will cut back on the cool factor to a practical factor.

Most jobs here in central Iowa regarding computer work start out at 23-33k per year with no experience. With 3-5 years experience it can become a 33-37k starting range. This may sound okay but the average price of a home is 160k or a one bedroom apartment will be $400-500 a month with $150 for utilities. So you figure rent and utilities are $650 a month, car payment of $350, student loan payment $250, credit cards from college $250, food $200, gas $200, car insurance $100= $2000  at a job for $35k per year pretty just leaves you about $150 a month for anything else after all bills are paid.

Its not a glamorous job I've been doign it for 7 years and to be honest I am a part time student working towards my RN, pay will be about the same when I get my RN but raises are a lot better and I'll have better job mobility, whole goal is to be a Nurse Practictioner eventually.

Charby

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

Charby check your email.
you can reply to fignozzle at yahoo dot com.

Thanks,
Fig

[Guest]

Just a couple of things...

I manage an IT support center and while I might look at a resume that doesn't have either a) an IT BS, b) Tons of IT experience, or c) good certifictaions; the odds are slim.  I have actually hired an individual who had computers as a hobby and convinced me he could do the work.  Luckily, we were both right.  Do not count on this happening to you.

I think if I were in your shoes I would do one of two things.  1) enroll to get a degree, take degree specific courses, get MS certifications, and try to transfer to your IT department (talk with the IT department manager if you can explain what you are doing and ask how to proceed to become acceptable to the departmant)

2) another path you could take would be to stick to what you are doing, get at a minimum MS A+ certification, and then see if you can switch to Geeks On Call (hard work lots of experience fixing broken computers etc.) or something like that .  Continue to persue your degree.  Once you have your degree you will have a resume with certification, experience, and a degree.

Note of caution:  This best prepares you for support.  It would also prepare you for Network admin type of work but your experience wouldn't count for much.  Another type of IT position you would be prepared for (to some extent) would be Technical Trainer.  This can be a good field to get into as well.

[BerettaCougar]

Hello everyone!
New to this board (followed link from TFL)

And this thread got my attention!
I am in my Bachelors program (2 months left until I graduate) in CNET (Computer Networking)

I am A+ certified and an MCP, I am working on my CCNA and the last certification I will work on is the NetSec (Network security) I'm telling you this because getting the degree is only a 4th of what is needed for a good job. One is a degree, two = certifications, three = Experience (going to be on the phone support for a year atleast) then 4th is knowing people on the inside.

I currently am a network admin assistant at Philips/Magnavox, I worked taking end user tech support calls for about a year starting pay was $12.00 an hour, turn over rate is HIGH (so make sure youre on the ball and follow all the processes to the T) When the company hired 300 more people the need for more people on IT grew, (usually 1 IT person per 50 other employees).

When I moved to IT, I realized how much easier being IT is than working the phones (30+ calls a day messes with your head!) I would hear the phone ring at random times when not working, I couldnt sleep because I would hear the phone ringing, and the worst part is dealing with people that dont read owners manuals!  Well first day on the IT team I did nothing!!!  I sat in my new office!! thats right office NOT CUBICLE! and I did nothing for 8 hours!!! the next day I reset about 10 employees passwords (if you enter the wrong one three times youre locked out) And I updated virus def's at the end of my shift!.... THATS IT!! well now things are alot more busy and I reset 20-30 passwords a day, run wires all day, and monitor people on the network, read key logs and report anything like porn sites and other non-ibm related sites to the admin, who then reports the person to the phone supervisor.

I loved the new position and I loved the pay increase! I went from making $12.00 an hour to $15.00!!! Which is pretty good for me, I am in my lower 20's with no kids. Theres people in IT that make $19-20.00 an hour but they been there for about 5 years. The Network admin makes good money, I dont know an exact amount but he drives a new corvette and a new range rover SUV.

[Typhoon]

I am currently a Networking/Server OS consultant, and have been an IT engineer and/or manager in a couple of large organizations.  Here are my thoughts:

As others have said, the IT world is not nearly as lucrative as it was a few years ago.  Even those who earn the crème de la crème of certifications, the CCIE (Cisco Certified Internetworking Engineer) are not guaranteed the happy six figure income that they used to expect.  Still, it is not bad money&

User support/Help Desk/Desktop Support is the easiest way to enter the field, as it does require the lowest common denominator of qualifications.  This is how you may turn a hobby into an income.  Unfortunately, you are also the lowest paid.  While it is possible to work your way up through the ranks from here, you are looking at supplemental study on your own to get some certifications.  Two things to consider:  While Microsoft certifications are the easiest to get, they are also a dime a dozen.  I have seen many people doing Desktop/User support and even Operations (monitoring, backups, etc) who have earned MCSEs but still remain at these lower levels.  Getting to the next level of Engineering and Design will probably take quite a bit of overtime and extra project work to get your name out there as a possible candidate for promotion.  And, while MS is still quite the juggernaut, it is hardly the only fish in the sea.  Know all the systems in your shop:  Mainframe, UNIX (as many flavors as you can) and ***wow*** even Novell NetWare!  (BTW, far fewer organizations have abandoned Novell than predicted.  The nice thing for me is that not too many folks have either initially trained on Novell products or kept up with the line. My NetWare knowledge is proving to be QUITE lucrative.)

Be careful about shelling to ITT Tech/DeVry, etc. for a degree.  Hiring managers are still going to be wary of you. Despite your grades and all the cool lab work you may have under your belt, you still have not dealt with the 3:00 am Oh Crap! in .  Real operational environments NEVER look like the book&You might get stuck with lots of loan payments and not lots of income. Even with a degree, you may need to start a fairly low level.

Diving directly into Cisco is also a bit difficult.  Here, probably more than anywhere else, you will 1) meet with institutional resistance against getting useful learning time on the equipment and 2) need a pretty solid base in command-line level computing (no GUI picture things).

My day?  Lots of documentation, and project planning.  Some after hours upgrades.  

Finally, dont be shy about capitalizing on your other skills as a way into IT.  Have you any teaching under your belt? Trainer.  Good with words?  Documentation.  Business Analysis is a fairly vague (sorry) and all-encompassing activity.  Know anything about electrical, air-conditioning, facilities?  You might start in the data center with the hardware/rack mount installations.    

You never know&

[lee n. field]

When I moved to IT, I realized how much easier being IT is than working the phones (30+ calls a day messes with your head!) I would hear the phone ring at random times when not working, I couldnt sleep because I would hear the phone ringing, and the worst part is dealing with people that dont read owners manuals!

After doing this for pushing 14 years, I can listen to a phone ring and feel no desire or urgency to pick it up at all.   The Pavlovian response is completely broken.

I loved the new position and I loved the pay increase! I went from making $12.00 an hour to $15.00!!! Which is pretty good for me, I am in my lower 20's with no kids. Theres people in IT that make $19-20.00 an hour but they been there for about 5 years. The Network admin makes good money, I dont know an exact amount but he drives a new corvette and a new range rover SUV.

Living where I do and doing what I do with the certs I have, I seem to have topped out at ~$30K.  That's very dependant on location -- the trade rags say I'm earning about half what others make elsewhere.

[Felonious Monk/Fignozzle]

Salary.com will give some pretty good figures as to your responsibilities and how they are "usually" compensated.  You may have to disregard the expected job titles, and read carefully re: job description and responsibilities to get the straight scoop on what you REALLY do, and what it's REALLY worth.

For example, my "official" title is currently Office Systems Specialist II.  This will change later this year, due to HR deciding it didn't sound "technical" enough.  It will become "Client Technologies Specialist II".
On Salary dot com, the bullseye for what I do falls into "LAN Systems Specialist II/III".  
Enter your zip, find a description that CLOSELY matches what you do day to day, and it'll give you a range that is solid enough that you can bargain with the Powers That Be for a raise if you're not fairly compensated.

I sprung the fifty bucks for a detailed personal report when I got my last job, and used it to negotiate.  
It translated out to an additional $3673 annually to start.  Not a bad ROI, IMO.

P.S. homefair.com will let you compare by zip code very accurate cost of living numbers as well, which you can use to negotiate and determine if a move to another location is financially worth it.

[garrettwc]

I just wanted to take a second to thank everyone who replied to this thread. It was very eye opening.

It sounds like I would be spending a lot of money and time to get the required "membership cards", only to have to beg for an entry level job at slightly above half my current income.

I think this will stay a hobby for now.