Things are so bad.....

[Lee]

The things I like about Ron Paul, are the things that also kill his chances to be elected.  His support here is kind of ironic in many ways.

"In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."[17]

What...and kill the worlds largest government job creations program in the history of the world?  How does that fly with conservative right wingers who detest government funded job creation? Throw in the "War on Some Drugs" and you're talking trillions of $ and millions of jobs.



 

[makattak]

The things I like about Ron Paul, are the things that also kill his chances to be elected.  His support here is kind of ironic in many ways.

"In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."[17]

What...and kill the worlds largest government job creations program in the history of the world?  How does that fly with conservative right wingers who detest government funded job creation? Throw in the "War on Some Drugs" and you're talking trillions of $ and millions of jobs. 

Yeah... conservatives favor a strong military because of all the jobs it provides...

[MicroBalrog]

The War on Drugs is a heinous form of tyranny, but it does not cost trillions of dollars, nor take millions of people to enforce. Sadly.

[longeyes]

The things I like about Ron Paul, are the things that also kill his chances to be elected.  His support here is kind of ironic in many ways.

"In an October 11, 2007 interview with The Washington Post, Paul said, "There's nobody in this world that could possibly attack us today... we could defend this country with a few good submarines. If anybody dared touch us we could wipe any country off of the face of the earth within hours. And here we are, so intimidated and so insecure and we're acting like such bullies that we have to attack third-world nations that have no military and have no weapons."[17]

What...and kill the worlds largest government job creations program in the history of the world?  How does that fly with conservative right wingers who detest government funded job creation? Throw in the "War on Some Drugs" and you're talking trillions of $ and millions of jobs.

When you have open borders and flaccid leadership you don't need a great military to undo the greatest society on earth.  As we are learning.

[MicroBalrog]

When you have open borders and flaccid leadership you don't need a great military to undo the greatest society on earth.  As we are learning.

America is not being undone.

Even in the present crisis, economic growth remains positive (if amazingly slow), crime is falling, lifespans are improving.

[longeyes]

Ah.  That's not "America."  You could cite the same things about a number of countries who, in the midst of the pockets of progress (we agree it's not all negative by any means), are, yes, decadent.

[TommyGunn]

America is not being undone.

Even in the present crisis, economic growth remains positive (if amazingly slow), crime is falling, lifespans are improving.

Your first sentence has nothing at all to do with your second sentence.  We ARE being undone.  That economic growth is a + is only a testament to the greatness that remains in our country, not what we'll have remaining in five or ten years. 
Crime is falling, I suppose because the bad guys can't afford ammo due to the recession, or gas to get around,  or things have gotten so bad other BGs have offed them already and they can't commit crimes because they are DEAD.
Lifespan improving?  Given what's to come .... that may be a curse....................

[longeyes]

There are many Americans doing their best, trying to keep America moving forward, but that doesn't change the fact that there are forces in play deliberately trying to subvert this country and that, unfortunately, they are succeeding.  We may still be better off than most of this planet, but we are not as strong as we used to be or as confident.

[Lee]

The 1012 DOD and related areas budget is $1.0-1.5 Trillion.  You could give every American household a million bucks over a 30 year period with that amount, and still have one of the biggest (if not the biggest) military budgets in the world. It's ridiculous.  

[Perd Hapley]

If a candidate is not willing to do that, he's on the same side as Obama. Does anybody think Romney is willing to do it? People will now (unfairly in my mind) abandon Cain, who might have done. If people will not vote for Ron Paul because of things like the fictional "Islamic Threat", then who is left?

You don't understand. People won't vote for Ron Paul because he doesn't inspire confidence. To most people, he's just an old man with some curious ideas.

[dogmush]

The 1012 DOD and related areas budget is $1.0-1.5 Trillion.  You could give every American household a million bucks over a 30 year period with that amount, and still have one of the biggest (if not the biggest) military budgets in the world. It's ridiculous.  

No, you couldn't.

The Census tells us there are 131,704,730 households in America.  At $1,000,000 each the bill for your fantasy would be $131,704,730,000,000.  Using your upper estimate of the DOD budget for all 30 years would be $45,000,000,000,000.

So not even close.  Stupid regurgitated soundbite.

[longeyes]

You don't understand. People won't vote for Ron Paul because he doesn't inspire confidence. To most people, he's just an old man with some curious ideas.

You may be right, but that damns the American electorate not Ron Paul, no?  What is Barack Obama except a middle-aged man with some VERY curious ideas?  Barack has better teeth and a more sonorous voice, I'll grant you that.

[MillCreek]

....except a middle-aged man with some VERY curious ideas? 

I resemble that remark and I bet a lot of people here do.

[Jamisjockey]

You don't understand. People won't vote for Ron Paul because he doesn't inspire confidence. To most people, he's just an old man with some curious ideas.

I disagree.  He's not full of empty platitudes, unlike nearly every other person in the race.  The average American has stooped to a level of idiocy that demands platitudes, and free *expletive deleted*it.  And more laws.   

[MicroBalrog]

You don't understand. People won't vote for Ron Paul because he doesn't inspire confidence. To most people, he's just an old man with some curious ideas.

Then they will get the government they deserve, no?

[Tallpine]

I resemble that remark and I bet a lot of people here do.

I'm not so curious anymore.  I've found out more than I want to know and most of it is awful.  

[erictank]

Then they will get the government they deserve, no?

Problem with that is, the rest of us get that same government too, despite deserving better.

[Perd Hapley]

I apologize. Clearly, Ron Paul is special, and deserves to have us vote for him, regardless of his personal inadequacies. Though he doesn't seem like much of a leader, I should go ahead and follow him anyway. After all, I should be doing his job for him, right?

[Tallpine]

I apologize. Clearly, Ron Paul is special, and deserves to have us vote for him, regardless of his personal inadequacies. Though he doesn't seem like much of a leader, I should go ahead and follow him anyway. After all, I should be doing his job for him, right?

Clearly, you prefer to follow some leader right off of a cliff. 

[erictank]

I apologize. Clearly, Ron Paul is special, and deserves to have us vote for him, regardless of his personal inadequacies. Though he doesn't seem like much of a leader, I should go ahead and follow him anyway. After all, I should be doing his job for him, right?

You go ahead and vote for Mr. MoreOfTheMcSame, if you truly believe he's better.  And don't complain when you get the government you ASKED FOR.

[birdman]

The 1012 DOD and related areas budget is $1.0-1.5 Trillion.  You could give every American household a million bucks over a 30 year period with that amount, and still have one of the biggest (if not the biggest) military budgets in the world. It's ridiculous.  

Yeah, wrong.  The DOD budget is no where close to 1-1.5 trillion.  Even if you include "related" areas.

The presidents 2012 budget request was:
Discretionary spending: $1.344 trillion (-3.1%)
$553.0 billion (+0.7%) - Department of Defense
$118.0 billion (-26.0%) - Overseas Contingency Operations
$79.9 billion (-1.8%) - Department of Health and Human Services
$77.4 billion (+6.2%) - Department of Education
$58.8 billion (+3.1%) - Department of Veterans Affairs
$49.8 billion (+0.5%) - Department of Housing and Urban Development
$50.1 billion (-0.9%) - Department of State and Other International Programs
$43.2 billion (-0.9%) - Department of Homeland Security
$29.6 billion (+4.2%) - Department of Energy
$28.2 billion (-7.2%) - Department of Justice
$23.8 billion (-7.1%) - Department of Agriculture
$18.2 billion (-6.7%) - National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.4 billion (-4.1%) - Department of Transportation
$14.0 billion (+0.8%) - Department of the Treasury
$12.1 billion (+0.3%) - Department of the Interior
$12.8 billion (-8.3%) - Department of Labor
$8.8 billion (-2.3%) - Department of Commerce
$4.6 billion (-6.2%) - Army Corps of Engineers
$9.0 billion (-10.3%) - Environmental Protection Agency
$7.8 billion (+4.6%) - National Science Foundation
$1.0 billion (-1.0%) - Small Business Administration
$1.3 billion (-11.1%) - Corporation for National and Community Service
$6.0 billion (+200%) - Disaster costs
$44.9 billion (-3.9%) - Other On-budget Discretionary Spending

So, let's add DOD, VA, and overseas ops together: $730 billion.  Or less than half of your upper bound, and 25% less than your lower bound?   Throw in dogmush's response, and your soundbite holds even less water.  Besides, if giving money to people from the govt was all that would be required to eliminate poverty, you would think the $10+ trillion we have already spend (which IS close to a million each for the lowest 10%) would have done it.

[Lee]

Yeah my numbers are bad...I admit that.  So we're "only" talking $730 billion  a year...Chump change.  You pay for it.  I was trying to illustrate the immense number, not suggesting that we redistribute wealth...because we are already doing that with the $730 + Billion.  What's the CIA budget running these days (or does anyone really know)?  What are we sending to Israel...and Egypt and the other hundred countries we ship our hard-earned money to.  It's all well and good when some conservatives bitch about the government spending too much money, and taxing us too much, and creating jobs in other sectors, yet, they have no issue with spending ridiculous amounts of money that belongs to the other 75% of the population. How many trillions will it take to stop the next wave of box cutter wielding Arabs from attacking us...since evidently we will be required to pay to bring their countries into the 21st century as a result?    

BTW- I grabbed to original Budget from WIKI.

Budget Breakdown for 2012
Defense-related expenditure    2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[18][19]    Calculation[20][21]
DOD spending    $707.5 billion    Base budget + "Overseas Contingency Operations"
FBI counter-terrorism    $2.7 billion    At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs    $5.6–$63.0 billion    At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related    $21.8 billion    
Veterans Affairs    $70.0 billion    
Homeland Security    $46.9 billion    
NASA, satellites    $3.5–$8.7 billion    Between 20% and 50% of NASA's total budget
Veterans pensions    $54.6 billion    
Other defense-related mandatory spending    $8.2 billion    
Interest on debt incurred in past wars    $109.1–$431.5 billion    Between 23% and 91% of total interest
Total Spending    $1.030–$1.415 trillion   

[Lee]

To get back to the Ron Paul topic -that's why he will never be elected. He believes that you don't spend money you don't have....regardless of the sacred nature of the prime beef.
 

[Perd Hapley]

You go ahead and vote for Mr. MoreOfTheMcSame, if you truly believe he's better.  And don't complain when you get the government you ASKED FOR.

I didn't say any candidate is better, and I didn't say who I was voting for. Possibly no one. The point is, Ron Paul has failed us just as surely as the RINOs have. Those of us who oppose the Left are in desperate need of a leader, and he has failed to be that, just as much as Romney has. That's just the way it is.

[Tallpine]

I'm not sure we need anymore "great leaders"

Seems like all the great leaders that we have had have gotten us into multiple wars and nearly ruined this nation: Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, ... :(

I'm ready for a non-leader like Coolidge, who shut down DC for the summer and went to Vermont on vacation