HB 822 (National Reciprocity) passes

[Matthew Carberry]

... not quite veto-proof but on to the Senate.

http://www.pagunblog.com/

[Jamisjockey]

... not quite veto-proof but on to the Senate.

http://www.pagunblog.com/

Will certainly sit just like everything else that's been sent to the senate....

[Matthew Carberry]

Will certainly sit just like everything else that's been sent to the senate....

Everyone is holding their breath for the super-committee to finish.

Recall that (last?) year they almost got a similar bill attached in the Senate to a "must pass".

Regardless, politically we now have a fresh up and down vote on record to tell the anti-gun types by, hopefully we can get it kicked to the floor in the Senate for the same purpose.

Also, if the Administration speaks out it will get them on record, if "in favor" why wouldn't the Senate pass it? If "against" it confirms the administration is not "pro-gun".

[SADShooter]

The fact that the question is even under discussion is a win, regardless of legislative outcome.

[Fly320s]

The fact that the question is even under discussion is a win positive indicator, regardless of legislative outcome.

[seeker_two]

Any word on which Fed agency will be overseeing compliance?.....

[Matthew Carberry]

Any word on which Fed agency will be overseeing compliance?.....

It's a civil rights bill, so, DOJ civil rights section, just like voting.

[wmenorr67]

Any word on which Fed agency will be overseeing compliance?.....

What can't we expect the states to police themselves?

[gunsmith]

awesome-but shouldn't it be tied to some must pass bill like the nat parks carry was a few yrs ago?

I cant wait to visit my old friends in NYC while packing my glock.




you talking to me?

[wmenorr67]

awesome-but shouldn't it be tied to some must pass bill like the nat parks carry was a few yrs ago?

I cant wait to visit my old friends in NYC while packing my glock.




you talking to me?

That is going to be the best part of the whole thing.  Might actually force the rest of the country to actually "loosen" up and go to shall issue.

[Ben]

That is going to be the best part of the whole thing.  Might actually force the rest of the country to actually "loosen" up and go to shall issue.

That's exactly what we're hoping for here in CA. If this passes and CCW holders from 48 other states (49 if you're from IL with a non-resident CCW from another state) are able to carry here when many Californians can't, it'll make the legislature look pretty stupid. We already have this going on in-state, since someone from shall-issue Sacramento can legally carry on school grounds in no-issue San Francisco.

[brimic]

No fears about the camel getting its nose under the tent in terms of being able to regulate or control CCW across the country?
CCW has been a States' issue so far.

[Jamisjockey]

That's exactly what we're hoping for here in CA. If this passes and CCW holders from 48 other states (49 if you're from IL with a non-resident CCW from another state) are able to carry here when many Californians can't, it'll make the legislature look pretty stupid. We already have this going on in-state, since someone from shall-issue Sacramento can legally carry on school grounds in no-issue San Francisco.

The California legislature has looked pretty stupid for many, many years.

I actually expect the opposite from less free states, such as CA and NY.  I see them writing laws that residents cannot carry in state on an out of state license.

[Jamisjockey]

No fears about the camel getting its nose under the tent in terms of being able to regulate or control CCW across the country?
CCW has been a States' issue so far.

I think it is comparable to Driver's licenses and marriage licenses.

What's funny is that this has very serious implications for same-sex marriages. 

[brimic]

I think it is comparable to Driver's licenses and marriage licenses.

Except more politically charged and ripe for abuse.

How often have federal laws made us more free?

[Brad Johnson]

How often have federal laws made us more free?

There's an important distinction to be made when talking about this bill, namely that it forces compliance by the states and not by the citizenry.  We have to be careful that we don't take our disdain for the bad things in gov and let them completely blind us to something that could be a potentially big step forward.

Brad

[Ben]

I actually expect the opposite from less free states, such as CA and NY.  I see them writing laws that residents cannot carry in state on an out of state license.

We're actually already not allowed to do that. That's why this law will make the state look even more stupid - out of staters WILL be able to carry, while a large portion of residents are forbidden (based on the political views of chief law enforcement officers in various counties) and CA will not be allowed to override the national law. I think that's one of the NRA's back doors in the push for statewide shall issue here, especially after the recent court ruling banning unloaded open carry.

Obviously a federal law applying to all states raises states rights issues. Passing such a law requires careful and specific language.

[Brad Johnson]

Obviously a federal law applying to all states raises states rights issues. Passing such a law requires careful and specific language.

Fortunately there is a long-held and firmly established precedent in driver's licenses.  Using that as a template should go a long way to avoiding state's rights issues.

Brad

[Jamisjockey]

We're actually already not allowed to do that. That's why this law will make the state look even more stupid - out of staters WILL be able to carry, while a large portion of residents are forbidden (based on the political views of chief law enforcement officers in various counties) and CA will not be allowed to override the national law. I think that's one of the NRA's back doors in the push for statewide shall issue here, especially after the recent court ruling banning unloaded open carry.

Obviously a federal law applying to all states raises states rights issues. Passing such a law requires careful and specific language.

Another potential issue I see:
States like CA arresting out of state permit holders.  Eric Holder DOJ refusing to prosecute state. 


And to be clear, I think that under the current system we have, states not recognizing any out of state CHL is a violation of the full faith and credit clause of the constitution.  Having thier feet held to the fire is right and just.

[MillCreek]

Except more politically charged and ripe for abuse.

How often have federal laws made us more free?

I would certainly point out Federal laws extending the voting franchise beyond white males have made the country more free.

[brimic]

I would certainly point out Federal laws extending the voting franchise beyond white males have made the country more free.

Those would be Amendments to the Constiitution.
14th,15th,19th,24th, and 26th.

Does Article 4, Section 1 of the US Constitution already make 'licenses' by one state necessarily accepted by others or is this law an affirmation of it?

[brimic]

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely support such a law in theory, but I'm also in fear of when the other shoe drops.
In the short term it could make for some great political comedy, whether it means the NRA's odd bed fellow  Reid tries to block it in the Senate or if Obama is forced to veto it.

I totally get the ability to to say 'neener neener neener' and walk into a state like Illinois/California/NY with another state's permit.

[GigaBuist]

Fortunately there is a long-held and firmly established precedent in driver's licenses.  Using that as a template should go a long way to avoiding state's rights issues.

Brad

Driver's license reciprocity works because of state agreements, not because of any federal law.

[MillCreek]

Those would be Amendments to the Constiitution.
14th,15th,19th,24th, and 26th.

And the laws that of course implement and enforce those Amendments.

[AZRedhawk44]

No fears about the camel getting its nose under the tent in terms of being able to regulate or control CCW across the country?
CCW has been a States' issue so far.

Not a fan of this bill, for this reason.


Also, you'll see  petty pizz-ant prosecutions for situations like:  An Arizonan goes to CA for vacation.  Gets pulled over for a small amount over speed limit, possibly due to profiling based on NRA stickers on bumper.  Guy is carrying, politely informs officer (while hands are at 10/2 on the wheel) that he has a pistol on his hip.  Officer wants to see it, and wham - CCW guy has "normal" magazines (16rd 9mm mag, for example) instead of Clinton-impaired magazines.  Or he's carrying some gun that isn't on the CA DOJ list.

And 1986 FOPA won't be any help because CA was the destination.