Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamisjockey on August 07, 2019, 04:38:00 PM
-
Well here we go
Trump says there is “an appetite” for an “increased layer of background checks”
He’s ready to cave. Universal background checks anyone?
“First they came for the bump stocks....”
-
I think we can say universal background checks for everyone for everything. I am hoping we don't end up with a universal 10 day waiting periods. The pace of incremental policies/rules/laws will start moving quite a bit faster now that there is blood in the water with a President who will cave.
bob
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/8/all-info
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1112?q=%7B%22search%22%3A%5B%22hr+1112%22%5D%7D&s=7&r=1
https://www.congress.gov/search?q=%7B%22congress%22%3A%22116%22%2C%22source%22%3A%22legislation%22%2C%22search%22%3A%22gun%20control%22%7D&searchResultViewType=expanded
-
If I had to make a bet, my money would be on nothing actually getting passed/signed. Maybe some executive action.
I might hedge my bets a little bit though.
-
If I had to make a bet, my money would be on nothing actually getting passed/signed. Maybe some executive action.
I might hedge my bets a little bit though.
Lol still backing your guy huh? He’s about to sell us all out.
-
I'm not backing Trump. I believe he's willing to sell us out on background checks, and probably more.
That said, I don't think he'll follow the classic "go first on a compromise and let them back out" that R presidents are so fond of. He's going to want some real concession on the border to sign gun control, probably in the same bill. I don't think Congress can get that done.
If he frames it right on Twitter, he can hang it on the demos. R's were ready to make real progress on compromise on two issues, and Pelosi couldn't get her people to do it.
-
I'm not backing Trump. I believe he's willing to sell us out on background checks, and probably more.
That said, I don't think he'll follow the classic "go first on a compromise and let them back out" that R presidents are so fond of. He's going to want some real concession on the border to sign gun control, probably in the same bill. I don't think Congress can get that done.
If he frames it right on Twitter, he can hang it on the demos. R's were ready to make real progress on compromise on two issues, and Pelosi couldn't get her people to do it.
If he gets what he wants, or even a step in the right direction on the border and immigration there is no way gun owners come out of this unscathed. Common sense gun legislation will be how he frames it.
bob
-
Has anyone seen what the Rs are suggesting for "universal"? As in, are they looking at stuff like "all private party sales" or "all private party sales/trades excepting immediate family", or what? "Universal" seems pretty nebulous right now, and not in a good way.
If it's all private party sales, dammit, I have a bunch of guns I want to sell or trade. If they are requiring FFL transfer for private party sales, I'm assuming it will be something that takes 60 or more days to kick in. If so, I'm tacking up a list of guns at the gun club the day after they announce it. FFLs are probably gonna charge 20 bucks or so per check. That can add up fast.
-
Has anyone seen what the Rs are suggesting for "universal"? As in, are they looking at stuff like "all private party sales" or "all private party sales/trades excepting immediate family", or what? "Universal" seems pretty nebulous right now, and not in a good way.
If it's all private party sales, dammit, I have a bunch of guns I want to sell or trade. If they are requiring FFL transfer for private party sales, I'm assuming it will be something that takes 60 or more days to kick in. If so, I'm tacking up a list of guns at the gun club the day after they announce it. FFLs are probably gonna charge 20 bucks or so per check. That can add up fast.
Look at the HB8 That I linked above, I would bet that is what will be forwarded, it has already passed the House so it is good to go as far as they are concerned. The Senate Rs will cave and pass it as it is because it just makes sense.
bob
-
Lol still backing your guy huh? He’s about to sell us all out.
??? I'm not sure who you think "my guy" is.
It's just the numbers in the senate.
Supporters of universal background checks for gun purchases face a daunting reality in their demand for a snap Senate roll call: They don’t have the votes; not even close.
The last real gun debate came in early 2013 — after the Sandy Hook shooting, in which 20 students and six school employees were killed — and ended in a filibuster deadlock. The Manchin-Toomey proposal fell five votes short of the 60 needed to defeat a filibuster: Four Republicans broke ranks to support the compromise background-check bill, while four conservative Democrats opposed it.
In the ensuing three elections, the Democratic caucus’s ranks dropped from 54 to 47 senators.
It didn't happen last time, I doubt it will this time.
-
Word in the political back rooms I frequent around work is that the NRA is viewed as losing power in DC. The board controversy, the infighting, etc. has led a lot of DC politicians to believe that the NRA no longer represents the same voting block it once wielded as a sword. The congress critters that feared the NRA even after Sandy Hook with a Dem in the White House aren't afraid now. And Trump apparently thinks he doesn't need to pander to the 2A people to stay in the Oval Office. Bad times...
-
??? I'm not sure who you think "my guy" is.
He can tell you love Trump, since you picked such a flattering profile pic.
-
And Trump apparently thinks he doesn't need to pander to the 2A people to stay in the Oval Office. Bad times...
Sadly, that's a major point. Anyone here gonna vote for Kamala? Warren? Beto? Bernie?
We don't really have options in 2020.
-
Sadly, that's a major point. Anyone here gonna vote for Kamala? Warren? Beto? Bernie?
We don't really have options in 2020.
We can stay home ..... and buy more ammo.
-
I don't trust our current SCOTUS to make the right decision in many if not most cases, but for the Fed Gov Universal Background Checks (between private parties) is unconstitutional.
The Federal Government can't regulate the sale of legal objects between private parties within a state. This is why we don't already have this. The way they got around it when they first did background check legislation was to apply the law to FFL's. That sort of works because FFL's are federally licensed so the Fed Gov can dictate the rules they operate under.
Of course they can also regulate transfers between individuals in different states as they do now since that is generally accepted rightly or wrongly as interstate commerce.
-
Was the power the lobbying arm $$$ of the NRA or was the power the actual votes they represented and could sway?
Trump is aware of the 2nd Amendment voting blok so the question is, does he think he can persuade us to support him even if he double crosses us?
The NRA reminds me of the Republican Party, they get a lot of support because there aren't better options that swing as big a stick.
-
My two cents: Trump says a lot of stuff in the interest of making a deal. What he says and what happens are not always the same thing.
That said, I am concerned about the R's in Congress just as much as Trump.
-
My two cents: Trump says a lot of stuff in the interest of making a deal. What he says and what happens are not always the same thing.
That said, I am concerned about the R's in Congress just as much as Trump.
I literally came in to post that several (R)'s are running off their mouths about compromise now.
-
One thing you can do is swamp the White House with e-mails saying NO MORE STUPID GUN LAWS.
-
I literally came in to post that several (R)'s are running off their mouths about compromise now.
Squishy "Republicans" believe in preemptive surrender on other issues, so why not on the Second Amendment?
-
I literally came in to post that several (R)'s are running off their mouths about compromise now.
I have heard that as well. Still doesn't necessarily mean it will pass or that they will all go for the House bill. We will see.
-
double post again
-
HankB:
Squishy "Republicans" believe in preemptive surrender on other issues, so why not on the Second Amendment?
Gawd, what a concept. "Just give the robber what he wants and he'll leave you alone."
I don't trust our current SCOTUS to make the right decision in many if not most cases, but for the Fed Gov Universal Background Checks (between private parties) is unconstitutional.
I heard that all through 1967-68. And nowadays the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA68) is all acceptable and "common sense." People seem to forget why the Second Amendment is the shortest proscription in the Bill Of Rights.
And what "infringed" means.
Terry, 230RN
-
You need to do as I am. I'm sending letters and e-mails to the White House and to Sen. McConnell opposing any more stupid, virtue signalling anti gun laws. Make them polite, short, and remind them that millions of firearm owners might just stay home on election day 2020.
I also sent e mails to my 2 Senators, though that's a lost cause as they are Democrats and have their noses tucked tightly up Schumer's heiney.
-
... and of how many billions of rounds are shot every year without drawing a drop of blood.
-
the messed up thing about our system is, the democrats are sometimes better republicans than republicans are and the republicans are better democrats than the democrats are.
I am super angry at POTUS now.
if the vote was today i would not vote for him.
for a guy who acts like he didn't like McCain - he sure acts like him
-
the messed up thing about our system is, the democrats are sometimes better republicans than republicans are and the republicans are better democrats than the democrats are.
I am super angry at POTUS now.
if the vote was today i would not vote for him.
for a guy who acts like he didn't like McCain - he sure acts like him
Maybe he's just doing his "art of the deal" stuff. Oh, and [barf] oooops.
-
From glumly reading the news this morning, it looks like the Rs are going to push red flag laws hard.
I guess I can kinda sorta see why many of them would go in that direction. Many Rs don't understand guns, but know that their base does, so they have an aversion to doing anything with the objects themselves, because they think (rightly so) that they would lose many votes. Hence they think (wrongly so) that red flag laws are a safe path for them to take to look like they're doing something while still "protecting" gun rights.
I read that Lyndsey Graham, who looks to be heavily pushing red flag along with Trump, has said that precautions to be put in place include consultation with mental health professionals prior to any confiscation orders to ensure police don't abuse the red flag laws. In my unscientific observations, it appears to me that probably 90% of mental health professionals lean moderately to strongly left. How do they keep their emotions out of their "unbiased" analysis?
-
Looks like we are instituting the Soviet model on how to deal with bad thinkers.
-
From glumly reading the news this morning, it looks like the Rs are going to push red flag laws hard.
I guess I can kinda sorta see why many of them would go in that direction. Many Rs don't understand guns, but know that their base does, so they have an aversion to doing anything with the objects themselves, because they think (rightly so) that they would lose many votes. Hence they think (wrongly so) that red flag laws are a safe path for them to take to look like they're doing something while still "protecting" gun rights.
I read that Lyndsey Graham, who looks to be heavily pushing red flag along with Trump, has said that precautions to be put in place include consultation with mental health professionals prior to any confiscation orders to ensure police don't abuse the red flag laws. In my unscientific observations, it appears to me that probably 90% of mental health professionals lean moderately to strongly left. How do they keep their emotions out of their "unbiased" analysis?
I was never a democrat. It looks like I may not long be a republican. Where do I go? :mad:
-
I was never a democrat. It looks like I may not long be a republican. Where do I go? :mad:
The Gulag.
-
Also, one of the problems I see with Republican political responses to stuff like this, terrorism, etc. is that they always seem to want to go "police state". I mean, we're still taking our shoes off at the airport. Sometimes they are worse than the left when it comes to "for your safety" and "if you didn't do anything, you have nothing to worry about."
-
Also, one of the problems I see with Republican political responses to stuff like this, terrorism, etc. is that they always seem to want to go "police state". I mean, we're still taking our shoes off at the airport. Sometimes they are worse than the left when it comes to "for your safety" and "if you didn't do anything, you have nothing to worry about."
Are you not a proud supporter of the women and men of TSA that put their lives on the line, keeping us safe from terrorists in the sky?
I'm concerned about your mental health comrade.
-
Also, here's Trump on red flag laws. I despise blithering idiot Cuomo, but his outburst, and those like it by others, shouldn't expose him/them to the loss of a right.
I can guarantee if this were a right-winger giving the outburst, Trump would be defending him, not saying "red flag". This is why we have to worry about these kinds of laws - politicians across the political spectrum will apply them according to ideology.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/08/13/donald-trumps-take-on-chris-cuomos-fredo-rant-explains-how-red-flag-laws-can-and-will-be-abused/
-
Also, here's Trump on red flag laws. I despise blithering idiot Cuomo, but his outburst, and those like it by others, shouldn't expose him/them to the loss of a right.
I can guarantee if this were a right-winger giving the outburst, Trump would be defending him, not saying "red flag". This is why we have to worry about these kinds of laws - politicians across the political spectrum will apply them according to ideology.
https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2019/08/13/donald-trumps-take-on-chris-cuomos-fredo-rant-explains-how-red-flag-laws-can-and-will-be-abused/
All of a sudden trump's kekhood (kekability, kekism?) is less appreciated . . . .
-
Part of me hopes this undermines the red flag laws.
-
Part of me hopes this undermines the red flag laws.
3D chess....
:rofl:
-
Part of me hopes this undermines the red flag laws.
You never know. This may be another one of those cases where I scream, "Why did you tweet that, Don!?!" and it turns out he had a plan I didn't see.
-
You never know. This may be another one of those cases where I scream, "Why did you tweet that, Don!?!" and it turns out he had a plan I didn't see.
4D chess.....
:rofl:
-
I'm not active enough on social media, someone needs to plant a bug in the lefts ear that this is how Trump is going to go after antifa.
-
I'm not active enough on social media, someone needs to plant a bug in the lefts ear that this is how Trump is going to go after antifa.
Oh they'd sacrifice those twerps in an instant.
-
Okay, what are the odds of something actually coming out of this or is just talk?
-
Okay, what are the odds of something actually coming out of this or is just talk?
I guess that depends on how stupid Trump is... ;/
so your guess is as good as mine.
I don't know what odds Trump has of winning re-election, but if he signs signficant gun control, I expect it will drop to zero.
-
I guess that depends on how stupid Trump is... ;/
so your guess is as good as mine.
I don't know what odds Trump has of winning re-election, but if he signs signficant gun control, I expect it will drop to zero.
I think Trump will have a strong chance at reelection regardless.
I'm often a fence sitter between "Vote your conscience" and "Hold your nose, because the other candidate stinks worse". As it stands now, I'm prepared to hold my nose for a lot of stench. Even if Trump signs some kind of gun control legislation, which will piss me off to no end, there is no way I can, in good conscience, actually vote my conscience. Every. single. one. of the higher polling dem candidates is a disaster to freedom and to the philosophy of the United States.
I will cuss like crazy if I have to vote for a "pro-gun control Trump", but I will do it to keep a commie out of the oval office. I think a lot of other people, who don't even care about guns, will be thinking the same way for different reasons. JMO.
-
I guess that depends on how stupid Trump is... ;/
so your guess is as good as mine.
Trump is a wild card, no doubt there. But the senate is the best possibility to kill it - I haven't seen anything saying the numbers are there.
By any objective measure then, the current Senate -- where Republicans hold 53 seats -- is less friendly to new gun control legislation than the Senate of April 2013. And that 2013 Senate never even got even one part of the gun control legislative package passed the cloture stage. There was never a final up-or-down floor vote on any part of the package. None. And that was with a Democratic president pushing the legislation to a Democratic-controlled Senate.
Even if Trump signs some kind of gun control legislation, which will piss me off to no end, there is no way I can, in good conscience, actually vote my conscience.
I think a lot of other people, who don't even care about guns, will be thinking the same way for different reasons.
Yup. This time of year when the vote is still far away, people talk big about losing their vote or staying home.
Once the election rolls around it's always "end of the world", flight 93, "vote or die" and most everyone falls in line.
-
I for one am somewhat on pins and needles waiting for the next one to push them over the edge. I keep expecting to see a breaking news report pop up.
-
Once the election rolls around it's always "end of the world", flight 93, "vote or die" and most everyone falls in line.
Enough might stay home to make Trump lose, easily.
Remember protest votes for Perot probably put Clinton in.
I expect protest votes for Nader probably made Gore lose as well.
Infuriating your base is a terrible idea.
No one who loves gun control will vote for Trump no matter what.
He can only lose votes.
He won the last election on a miniscule margin.
-
I think Trump will have a strong chance at reelection regardless.
I'm often a fence sitter between "Vote your conscience" and "Hold your nose, because the other candidate stinks worse". As it stands now, I'm prepared to hold my nose for a lot of stench. Even if Trump signs some kind of gun control legislation, which will piss me off to no end, there is no way I can, in good conscience, actually vote my conscience. Every. single. one. of the higher polling dem candidates is a disaster to freedom and to the philosophy of the United States.
I will cuss like crazy if I have to vote for a "pro-gun control Trump", but I will do it to keep a commie out of the oval office. I think a lot of other people, who don't even care about guns, will be thinking the same way for different reasons. JMO.
You're not wrong on the Dems, but at some point Trump gets bad enough that the "*expletive deleted*ck it, burn it to the ground" vote swings Dem.
I don't know what that point is, but I clearly remember a bunch of folks in 2016 saying some version of "*expletive deleted*ck it"
-
I don't know what that point is, but I clearly remember a bunch of folks in 2016 saying some version of "*expletive deleted*ck it"
I was one of them. I was all ready to go third party, but at the last minute, more as an FU to the SJWs who had absolutely infuriated me, than any other damn thing, voted Trump. As I was in CA at the time, my vote really didn't make a difference whichever way I would have voted. Now I'm in a state where I can't really do an FU, because my vote can actually count, one way or the other.
-
I think the best response to the Red Flag situation is to anonymously Red-Flag-Report all the politicians and cops that support the concept or execute Red Flag seizures.
-
The Gulag.
Oh boy! Free meals! [tinfoil]
-
I think the best response to the Red Flag situation is to anonymously Red-Flag-Report all the politicians and cops that support the concept or execute Red Flag seizures.
Oh, it's not like an ahole like Trump couldn't be red flagged immediately.
He's had at least 2 rape accusations (neither credible, as far as I can tell).
Losing your gun rights because someone is mad at you and makes unsupported allegations is a due process nightmare.
-
Oh, it's not like an ahole like Trump couldn't be red flagged immediately.
He's had at least 2 rape accusations (neither credible, as far as I can tell).
Losing your gun rights because someone is mad at you and makes unsupported allegations is a due process nightmare.
And how many politicians and others who should know better talked about those allegations like we should take them seriously even though no evidence was presented. Makes me think any evidence requirements will just be waved due to the "seriousness of the allegation".
-
When it's a Fox News poll, and it still heavily leans "gun control", I start to worry. Even the Rs polled said shootings are 60% mental health and 30% firearms access. If Trump pushes either "enhanced" background checks or red flag laws, I'm still saying he won't lose many votes. We have to remember gun owners are a smallish portion of his overall base, and much of his base would, sadly, seem to be fine with the proverbial "common sense" legislation.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-most-back-gun-restrictions-after-shootings-trump-ratings-down
-
I think red flag laws are the easy, safe win for R's. Due Process is a nebulous idea to most people, and everyone know at least one person the think shouldn't have guns.
Sadly, I think they are the more dangerous laws for liberty in general.
-
and everyone know at least one person the think shouldn't have guns.
As far as the Ds are concerned that's everyone but themselves and their goons
-
I for one am somewhat on pins and needles waiting for the next one to push them over the edge. I keep expecting to see a breaking news report pop up.
You just had to go there, didn't you?
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2019/08/14/6-philadelphia-police-officers-shot-in-philadelphias-nicetown-tioga-section-officials-say/
It will almost certainly turn out that the perp is a convicted felon who should already have been prevented from possessing firearms by a half dozen or more laws that didn't work (likely because they weren't enforced), so the obvious solution WON'T be to start enforcing the laws we have, it will be to enact more laws that won't be enforced.
-
I think the best response to the Red Flag situation is to anonymously Red-Flag-Report all the politicians and cops that support the concept or execute Red Flag seizures.
Don't forget Fredo.
-
You just had to go there, didn't you?
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2019/08/14/6-philadelphia-police-officers-shot-in-philadelphias-nicetown-tioga-section-officials-say/
It will almost certainly turn out that the perp is a convicted felon who should already have been prevented from possessing firearms by a half dozen or more laws that didn't work (likely because they weren't enforced), so the obvious solution WON'T be to start enforcing the laws we have, it will be to enact more laws that won't be enforced.
Good prediction. I don't know how you guessed that. =D
-
You just had to go there, didn't you?
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2019/08/14/6-philadelphia-police-officers-shot-in-philadelphias-nicetown-tioga-section-officials-say/
It will almost certainly turn out that the perp is a convicted felon who should already have been prevented from possessing firearms by a half dozen or more laws that didn't work (likely because they weren't enforced), so the obvious solution WON'T be to start enforcing the laws we have, it will be to enact more laws that won't be enforced.
Called that one.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/philadelphia-police-shootings-six-shot-suspect-maurice-hill-20190815.html
Hill’s history in the adult criminal justice system began in 2001 when he was 18 and was arrested with a gun that had an altered serial number.
Public records show that he has been arrested about a dozen times since turning 18, and convicted six times on charges that involved illegal possession of guns, drug dealing, and aggravated assault. He has been in and out of prison; the longest sentence handed him came in 2010, when a federal judge gave him a 55-month term.
...
Hill also spent time in federal prison. In 2008, he pleaded guilty to federal firearms violations after he was caught with a Smith & Wesson .357 and later a Taurus PT .45 semiautomatic. His prior felony convictions should have barred him from owning those weapons. U.S. District Judge Paul S. Diamond sentenced him to four years and seven months in prison.
But the solution is more new gun control laws.
To rif on Dana Loesch, "How much more illegaler can we make it?"
-
Good prediction. I don't know how you guessed that. =D
Some days you're the hammer, some days you're the nail.
Yesterday must have been my hammer day.