TTAG: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms donated to anti-gun politicians

[Angel Eyes]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

The gun community continues to react to news of a deal made by Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms to carve out an exemption from a state licensing scheme (SB-1657). Both Springfield and Rock River Arms have issued statements denying any knowledge of the deal negotiated on their behalf by the lobbyist for the Illinois Firearms Manufacturing Association (IFMA). An organization funded by Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms.

We can now reveal that Springfield and Rock River have, through IFMA, donated tens of thousands of dollars to Illinois anti-gun politicians over the last several years.

Details at the link.

I don't know how reliable TTAG is as a source, but if even half of this is true . . . .   

[Fly320s]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/


Details at the link.

I don't know how reliable TTAG is as a source, but if even half of this is true . . . .   

I think TTAG is a pretty reliable source and I believe what I've read about Springfield and RRA.

[Regolith]

Or maybe not...

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-oppose-gun-dealer-licensing-act/

[Hawkmoon]

Or maybe yes ... sorta ... in a manner of speaking ... somewhat.

In 2009, we [Rock RiverArms] partnered with other manufacturers to form an organization geared towards representing our interests – The Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IFMA).

...

If true, then the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association (IMFA) alone is to blame for the group’s decision to remove opposition to the bill, and early assertions made by another firearms news site claiming that Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms directly and intentionally screwed over the citizens of their state as well as smaller manufacturers and gun dealers, would almost appear to be libelous.

So Springfield and Rock River were instrumental in creating the IFMA, and the IFMA was representing them when they cut the deal. And, let's face it, the deal DID further their interests. If, indeed, the IFMA cut this deal without consulting its constituency, then shame on the IFMA. On the other hand, the skeptic in me wonders of SA and RRA would still be opposed to the legislation if news hadn't filtered out about the exemption.

[230RN]

....

[Scout26]

Consensus here in Illinois is that RRA and SA wanted their special carve-out with the hope that no one would notice.

Then someone (IIRC, it was the Illinois State Rifle Association), found out.  And then the defecation storm hit the social media rotating oscillator.

At first SA President and Owner came out with a wishy-washy statement that tried to play both sides.

Social media anger and outrage intensified.  Orders were being cancelled right and left.  It was getting very ugly, very fast.


So they have back pedaled most ricky-tick.  The bill still has to make it through the house and the IFMA has withdrawn their neutral stance, back to against.  Along with thousands of gunowners putting in against witness slips... since this is the "hot" issue now.

If it doesn't die in the house, Rauner will (hopefully) veto it.  (If he wants to have any chance at being re-elected he will.  Signing this will be signing his own death warrant).

[lee n. field]

Social media anger and outrage intensified.  Orders were being cancelled right and left.  It was getting very ugly, very fast.

New store locally was having "Springfield Days" as part of it's grand opening festivities.  Second day, nope, canceled.  (Genesceo is an hour and a half away, so says the google.)

And real soon now, like tomorrow, I will be dropping by my rep's office.  

Springfield always has a table out the club's open house.  Chat, try out stuff.  We'll see.

[Fly320s]

The guys at Military Arms Channel have a good writeup about the events.

Here is their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/

[AJ Dual]

Or maybe not...

https://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2017/05/01/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-oppose-gun-dealer-licensing-act/

An out and out lie. Too little, too late. Their claim that the lobbyist and IL "industry group" went rogue on them is bunk.

Especially seeing as RRA and SA's officers are board members of the actual group in question.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IFMA-Form-990-2012.pdf

Scroll to the last page of this .pdf file on the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association IFMA. The names are the CEO's/Owners of Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms. The one guy Jay Keller, who was paid $50,000 as the "Executive Director" was their paid lobbyist. They're trying to create the impression this larger Illinois "Industry Group" was doing things they wouldn't have approved of if they were paying attention, except they are the group. Lock, stock, and barrel.  The IFMA was probably set up for the sole purpose of creating this carve-out for them, and to try and create a cutout, hoping nobody would look up the filings and figure out who was doing it.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

I feel bad for the employees, but both companies need to be destroyed, and Zumbo'ed good, long, and hard. My prediction is that RRA will go under, they're on the verge of it already, and SA will survive, but in diminished form, and probably be bought up by somebody in the coming year or two.

[lee n. field]

The drama continues:  http://blog.springfield-armory.com/springfield-armory-statement-regarding-gun-dealer-licensing-act-sb1657-0

6PM today

The Executive Director of the Illinois Firearm Manufacturers Association (IFMA) acted without our prior knowledge and against our principles and those of the industry as a whole with respect to the Gun Dealer Licensing Act. We no longer have confidence in IFMA and after speaking to other directors we have made the decision to sever all ties with the organization, effective immediately.

I take full responsibility for my failure of oversight in this case and deeply apologize to my employees, customers and industry partners for the distraction and divisiveness this situation has caused within our tight-knit community. Our industry has always stood strong and fought fiercely together in the past and I am personally committed to defeating this harmful legislation. To that end, I have pledged to the NRA that we will bring the full resources of my company to bear in this fight.

We are not new to this battle, Springfield Armory has fought and defeated legislation like this in Illinois for decades. We are wholeheartedly against this bill and will fight shoulder-to-shoulder with the NRA, National Shooting Sports Foundation, the Illinois State Rifle Association and others to see it defeated as the unnecessary and harmful overreach that it is.

We want to assure all Americans, like us, who fight to protect the Second Amendment that we and our industry partners will leave no stone unturned to defeat this bill.

[AJ Dual]

At least they know how much deep *expletive deleted*it they're in.  But they're still trying to sell the wider lie of omission trying to create the impression the IMFA screwed up without their knowledge. When they are the IFMA, and it was SA's and RRA's show entirely.

I urge everyone to pass along on other gun forums or FB groups that .PDF I linked to above, and explain that they are the IMFA, they created it. And it was probably created to get the carve-out from the IL anti gun legislators.

[AJ Dual]

LOL... it gets BETTER. 

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/16/Salvador-based-Army-colonel-indicted-on-bribery-charges/5406606027600/

[lee n. field]

LOL... it gets BETTER. 

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/16/Salvador-based-Army-colonel-indicted-on-bribery-charges/5406606027600/

That date on that is 1989.

[AJ Dual]

That date on that is 1989.

I'm aware.

So a CEO involved in foreign bribery and chicanery with .mil contracts who only escaped by the skin of his teeth by turning states evidence...

Creating his own lobbying group to get sweetheart deals from anti gun legislators, then denying it by trying to claim they didn't know what the group was doing, when he's one of only a handful of officers in that group...

Well, I think even if it is 28 year old news, it speaks to character, honesty, and patterns.

[MikeB]

I don't know if they will be done for. Even Smith and Wesson and Colt(for a time anyways; until they turned idiots again and may be done now.) didn't go out of business after going with the antis vs. guowners. However I think these two  are going to be bleeding for awhile. Gun owners tend to treat traitors pretty harshly. I know I won't be buying any Springfield or RRA Firearms or items for at least a long while and managements changes would need to happen, if ever again. I was a regular purchaser of Springfield Firearms and have a few RRA Firearms.

[lee n. field]

I don't know if they will be done for. Even Smith and Wesson and Colt(for a time anyways; until they turned idiots again and may be done now.) didn't go out of business after going with the antis vs. guowners. However I think these two  are going to be bleeding for awhile. Gun owners tend to treat traitors pretty harshly. I know I won't be buying any Springfield or RRA Firearms or items for at least a long while and managements changes would need to happen, if ever again. I was a regular purchaser of Springfield Firearms and have a few RRA Firearms.

They are replaceable.

What does Rock River make now?   I remember them as being into 1911s and AR-15s.  Plenty of companies making either.

Likewise, Springfield's unique offering is the XD and variants.  It would be too bad if support went away, but...

[dogmush]

They are replaceable.

What does Rock River make now?   I remember them as being into 1911s and AR-15s.  Plenty of companies making either.

Likewise, Springfield's unique offering is the XD and variants.  It would be too bad if support went away, but...

They import the XD.  I don't know about all the variants.  But I bet someone else would pick up that pistol line, seeing how many SA sells.

[lee n. field]

They import the XD.

I'm well aware of that.  "Made in Croatia" on each of mine.

 I don't know about all the variants.

By which I meant, XD, XDM, XDS and now XDE.

 But I bet someone else would pick up that pistol line, seeing how many SA sells.

Probably.   My point is it wouldn't be the end of the world if buyers ended up needing to go to some other brand of europlastic.

[Hawkmoon]

Probably.   My point is it wouldn't be the end of the world if buyers ended up needing to go to some other brand of europlastic.

If the Turks don't already make a clone that's just as good and half to two-thirds the price ... they will within six months.

[MechAg94]

If the Turks don't already make a clone that's just as good and half to two-thirds the price ... they will within six months.

Well, the Canik models are supposed to be pretty reliable pistols.

[MechAg94]

An out and out lie. Too little, too late. Their claim that the lobbyist and IL "industry group" went rogue on them is bunk.

Especially seeing as RRA and SA's officers are board members of the actual group in question.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IFMA-Form-990-2012.pdf

Scroll to the last page of this .pdf file on the Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association IFMA. The names are the CEO's/Owners of Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms. The one guy Jay Keller, who was paid $50,000 as the "Executive Director" was their paid lobbyist. They're trying to create the impression this larger Illinois "Industry Group" was doing things they wouldn't have approved of if they were paying attention, except they are the group. Lock, stock, and barrel.  The IFMA was probably set up for the sole purpose of creating this carve-out for them, and to try and create a cutout, hoping nobody would look up the filings and figure out who was doing it.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/05/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-made-campaign-contributions-to-anti-gun-rights-politicians/

I feel bad for the employees, but both companies need to be destroyed, and Zumbo'ed good, long, and hard. My prediction is that RRA will go under, they're on the verge of it already, and SA will survive, but in diminished form, and probably be bought up by somebody in the coming year or two.

I think those director positions are likely symbolic.  I would be curious to know who makes day to day decisions with the IFMA group as well as with SA and RRA.  

[MechAg94]

I also bet every other company is seeing this and taking a closer look at what they are doing for lobbying such.  Probably a good reminder for them in the long run.  Considering they all were just going for the pistol contract, they probably all gave to politicians from both sides last year.

[AJ Dual]

I think those director positions are likely symbolic.  I would be curious to know who makes day to day decisions with the IFMA group as well as with SA and RRA.  

[makattak]

Most board of directors for non-profits meet twice a year and are rarely involved in the day-to-day running of the non-profit.

It doesn't mean they weren't involved, but it also means they are not necessarily lying about being surprised.

[AJ Dual]

Most board of directors for non-profits meet twice a year and are rarely involved in the day-to-day running of the non-profit.

It doesn't mean they weren't involved, but it also means they are not necessarily lying about being surprised.

Not when there's only 5 people in the entire organization. Two of the owners/founders of Springfield Armory, and two of the owners/founders of Rock River Arms, and the 5th is the lobbying consultant they're paying to do the actual lobbying.

So we have to believe the four of them ponied up $50k and then never checked up on what the guy was doing, and that they simply gave him marching orders, something vague like "Go do good gun stuff in Springfield for us!"?

BTW... I've got this bridge for sale...