TTAG: Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms donated to anti-gun politicians

[TechMan]

Here is their 2013 990 https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IFMA-Form-990-2013.pdf  They claim to have dissolved that organization and transfer its assets to another similar organization.

[makattak]

Not when there's only 5 people in the entire organization. Two of the owners/founders of Springfield Armory, and two of the owners/founders of Rock River Arms, and the 5th is the lobbying consultant they're paying to do the actual lobbying.

So we have to believe the four of them ponied up $50k and then never checked up on what the guy was doing, and that they simply gave him marching orders, something vague like "Go do good gun stuff in Springfield for us!"?

BTW... I've got this bridge for sale...

Ah, my mistake. When you said to scroll to the bottom, I assumed there were more names. Your assessment is likely spot on.

[MechAg94]

Considering the NRA meeting was just going on, I think surprise is understandable (for what happened the last few days).  They give the lobbyist money to do that stuff for them so they don't have to worry about.  What they (or the lobbyist) were likely doing is playing both sides.  Opposing the bill yet trying to get a cut out for themselves at the same time in case it passed.  The lobbyist screwed up either on his own or with their input.  How much of a direct hand the CEO's had in it is a question.    

I would be happy if they just get it fixed, make sure the bill gets killed, and do some good make up work for gun rights.  However, based on what I see in a lot of places there is a lynch mob forming so I don't know what they can do to recover.  

[MechAg94]

Ah, my mistake. When you said to scroll to the bottom, I assumed there were more names. Your assessment is likely spot on.

IMO, all that means is they formed a political entity to pay this one lobbyist to represent them in the state capitol.  The assumption being made is they knew every little thing the lobbyist was doing and approved it.  As I said above, I am sure they had the guy playing both sides a bit.  What I don't know is if they told him to go neutral on the bill after they got their cut out.  I don't know if we will ever know those details for certain.  

Is there is a state level gun rights organization in Illinois?  I am curious if there are any other state level gun rights people who can weigh in on this.

[MechAg94]

I just noticed an email this evening.  I am on Springfield Armory's email list.  They forwarded an NRA-ILA alert about the bill in the Illinois legislature asking residents to contact their reps. 

We will see what else they do.

[MechAg94]

Either way, the FN 509 was catching my interest more than the XDe.  Good thing I guess. 

[Scout26]

IMO, all that means is they formed a political entity to pay this one lobbyist to represent them in the state capitol.  The assumption being made is they knew every little thing the lobbyist was doing and approved it.  As I said above, I am sure they had the guy playing both sides a bit.  What I don't know is if they told him to go neutral on the bill after they got their cut out.  I don't know if we will ever know those details for certain.  

Is there is a state level gun rights organization in Illinois?  I am curious if there are any other state level gun rights people who can weigh in on this.

Yes, the Illinois State Rifle Association (ISRA).  Again, if IIRC, it was the ISRA* that discovered that the IFMA has gone from "Oppose" to "Neutral" after the carve out amendment was added, which helped the bill to pass the State Senate.^%

I got several e-mails about this from the NRA, ISRA and Illinois Carry, along with some other smaller groups.

From Illinois Carry at 7:04PM on 30 April:

One bill that did move from Senate to House before the deadline is SB1657 Gun Dealer Licensing. Despite our best efforts, this bill took another step in the process of becoming law. But it isn't law yet. There's still time to stop it, and stop it we must!

The Illinois Firearms Manufacturers Association, representing Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms, seems to have negotiated a carve out to exempt manufacturers from licensing under this bill, resulting in the association changing their opposition to a neutral stance. This change very possibly gave the sponsor the number of votes needed to pass the bill.

Our efforts against SB1657 must be unified and we urge Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms to stand with us. We ask them to do the right thing and oppose this attack on their firearm dealers and the millions of customers who made them great.

Direct, personal contact by the CEOs of Springfield Armory and Rock River Arms to each and every House Representative, correcting their position to “oppose”, would be a great help to all. Call the CEOs of these two manufacturers and ask them to stand with Illinois gun shops and gun owners. Ask them to do everything within their power to show all state legislators they stand united with us now and in the future.
 

Rock River Arms: 309-792-5780 or 866-980-7625
 
Springfield Armory: 309-944-5631 or 800-680-6866
 

Beginning tomorrow please also start calling your State House Representatives in their district offices, letting them know you oppose gun dealer licensing regardless of who has been carved out and who hasn't.

 

*- Again, IIRC the ISRA has three lobbyists in Springfield.  The NRA also has one.  But he's "Part-time" as he also is the lobbyist for the Operating Engineers' Union.  

%- Going back and checking the e-mails I got show that it actually was Illinois Carry that first blew the whistle on the SA and RRA.   Mea Culpa.

[cordex]

I got that email too, Mech.  Sort of on the nose, but better late than never.

As far as the various assumptions as to what they knew and when they knew it - I don't see the answer as necessarily obvious. 

First of all, even had it applied to them this bill wouldn't be that big of a deal to large manufactures.  The compliance overhead and additional cost would be peanuts compared to the rest of their costs.  As with most legislation, this bill really hurts the little guys the most. 

Secondly, the members have worked with this lobbyist for years.  Up until this broke, they may have trusted him to take care of things.  Not all companies are really hands-on with their lobbyists (especially when it is one shared by a group) and in a case where the law would be at worst a minor impact to the members I'm doubting the membership spent very many clock cycles micromanaging.

All told, while it is certainly possible that Springfield and RRA were aware of and approved of the lobbyist's decisions, it is equally if not more plausible that their interaction with him this session was limited to: "What's on the docket this year?  Okay, that's not great.  See what you can do about it."

[T.O.M.]

Back in law school, we had a lobbiest come and talk about his work.  He went on about a great situation he was involved in how he went to a junior legislator to get a bill introduced that was in opposition to the position of a group he represented.  He then bragged about how he went to the group, informed them of the bill, and then got paid a bonus when he lobbied successfully to get the bill killed before it made it out of committee.  Sometimes I wonder how much proposed legislation is generated by lobbiest just playing legislators so the lobbying firms can make money.  Kind of wonder if this is why some companies play both sides of the fence.

[Hawkmoon]

Most board of directors for non-profits meet twice a year and are rarely involved in the day-to-day running of the non-profit.

It doesn't mean they weren't involved, but it also means they are not necessarily lying about being surprised.

This is not a typical non-profit. This is an organization that was created by firearms manufacturers for the express purpose of lobbying for the [member] firearms manufacturers.

[lee n. field]

*- Again, IIRC the ISRA has three lobbyists in Springfield.  The NRA also has one.  But he's "Part-time" as he also is the lobbyist for the Operating Engineers' Union.  

Is Todd V. back to splitting his time between the two?  Last I recall from 3-4 years ago was that he quit the one to focus on NRA's interests full time.

[Scout26]

Is Todd V. back to splitting his time between the two?  Last I recall from 3-4 years ago was that he quit the one to focus on NRA's interests full time.

As far as I know he's still an Operating Engineer.  I do know that he put the Operating Engineer stuff on the back burner a few years back, when Concealed Carry was being forced upon the state by the 7th District (also there wasn't much, if any legislation affecting the OE's that year).

He's a member at ASC, if I see him there I'll ask him.

[gunsmith]

Either way, the FN 509 was catching my interest more than the XDe.  Good thing I guess. 

they advertise on a local station i catch the rush limbaugh show on at work, i have been meaning to at least look it up because i want gun makers to advertise more.

[MechAg94]

The main thing I am waiting for on the FN 509 is to see one personally and see how large it is compared others guns and how it feels in the hand.  I have an FNX 9mm and a CZ P-07.  I am not sure it will do anything those don't do.  The collector in me wants to buy them all though.  


I have seen some youtube stuff and other commentary on this whole event.  I agree that SA was playing both sides of the fence.  I expect them to take hard action to make up for this.  I heard one writer call for the senior leadership to resign.  That would likely help with a lot of people.  I hate to go as far as saying I will never buy another one of their guns because I probably will at some point in the future.  I guess we will see what happens after when it gets to 2 weeks old and the typical news attention cycle focuses on something else.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't know if SA is now a publicly traded company, but the head honchos are brothers and they are the people who founded the company. Not likely we'll see them resign any time soon.

[Scout26]

Lee N. Field,

I saw Todd yesterday at Pub West,  after we had spent the day teaching​ shotgun at our Youth Program (he had been over on one of the rifle/pistol ranges shooting two-gun)) and asked him.

You were correct, he and OE's, went their separate ways in 2013, although he did do some "freelance" work for them for the roads amendment.