Author Topic: Religion not COOL?  (Read 14171 times)

TarpleyG

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Religion not COOL?
« on: February 16, 2006, 09:53:57 AM »
Since when did being a religious/spritual person become not cool?  I work in IT with a bunch of tech-heads.  Most of them do not believe in God or anything else of higher being.  Rather petty and arrogant if you ask me.  Everyday I see people bash Christians for being believers and they are thought of as kooks or something.  When did this happen?

Greg

p.s. Don't turn this into a religion bashing session either.  If you don't have something positive to say, beat it.

mtnbkr

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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2006, 10:02:12 AM »
That's been the case for as long as I can remember.

It gets really weird when you see that going on at a private Christian university.  I'm not particularly religious myself, but you gotta wonder why people who are that anti-religion would choose such a school.

Chris

Sindawe

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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2006, 10:08:24 AM »
Some thoughts.

1. Tech-heads tend to be very analytical and rational in nature, and spiritual matters are hard to quantify.  "If it can't be measured, it don't exist."  Shortsighted IMAO, since measuring gamma radiation was not possible in the 15th century, but it most assuredly DID exist.  Science if the "religion" of our age.

2. Based on my exposure to "mainstream religions", a good chunk of the dogma involves surrendering to a higher power.  Tech-heads have a tendency to be control freaks, and the idea of surrender to an unmeasurable "thingie" rubs 'em the wrong way.

3. Bashing "X" cause its the "In" thing to do 'prolly plays a part in it.  Herd behavior sorta thing.

I've encountered the same sort of derision directed at my faith from time to time.
I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2006, 11:11:37 AM »
I also think it's regional.  I see you're in Ft. Lauderdale, the Newark of Florida.
My sis in law is a psych/drug counselor in upstate NY state.  She recently went to a regional conference, where at dinner they sat in the typical 8-10 chair groups; a couple of elder statesmen in the field, 3-4 mid-level execs, and a couple of young turks at her table...

One of the elder statesmen starts ridiculing the 'ignorant, stone-age, moon-chasing Fundamentalists' and after about 5 minutes of this, she spoke up and said "George, I think it would be a grave miscalculation to assume that everyone at this table is a raging liberal."  After the uncomfortable silence, the subject was changed.

One of the most interesting things I see is when my evangelistic friends get into debates with shrieking liberals, and they start using some of their own terminology on them.  
"You seem to be incredibly intolerant of alternative beliefs..." (Dead silence...)
"So are you bigoted against those who embrace more esoteric spiritual paths!?!?" (dead silence...)

It's kind of fun to see them squirm.

griz

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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2006, 12:19:11 PM »
My personal opinion:

1. Your beliefs about religion should not be based on what is "cool" or what the majority believe.
2. Unless their beliefs are dangerous to others, you should not mock others for their beliefs.
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crt360

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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2006, 12:26:41 PM »
I think it's the other way around here.  Belonging to a church is not unlike belonging to a country club.  I think a lot of people here participate in religious acitivities and espouse religious teachings not because they actually believe it themselves, but because it is the "cool" thing to do.  I grew up going to Sunday school and church every week, studied the bible, went through a couple of years of confirmation, but I no longer attend any type of church service.

I will not bash anyone who wants to worship through organized religion.  I may give you an earful if you start telling me some crap about how I'm going to hell if I don't praise my lord in the Baptist way or take as truth certain unproven things.  I'm not a big fan of religious groups that expect their members to proselytize.  Their effect is often negative and probably why some people think religion is not cool.  I'm also perfectly comfortable in the presence of people who are not religious.
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Nightfall

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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2006, 12:36:11 PM »
Quote
Most of them do not believe in God or anything else of higher being.  Rather petty and arrogant if you ask me.
You ask people not to turn this into a religion bashing thread, but start it off by bashing atheists? Interesting.
Quote
Everyday I see people bash Christians for being believers and they are thought of as kooks or something.
What exactly does this bashing entail? Deragatory insults?

As for Christianity being out of style in certain circles ATM, there will always be those follow the herd and bleat when the others bleat. Ive met two kinds of atheists in my life; those who do it as a way to rebel, as a stylish statement, to join a certain clique, OR those who have dismissed the existence of certain higher beings based on logic and/or scientific reasoning.
It is difficult if not impossible to reason a person out of a position they did not reason themselves into. - 230RN

Ron

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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2006, 12:41:52 PM »
Quote
OR those who have dismissed the existence of certain higher beings based on logic and/or scientific reasoning.
According to their opinion. Unless of course I missed where "science" proved there is no spiritual realm.

Tallpine

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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2006, 12:53:25 PM »
I don't really care how anyone believes as long as they leave me alone.

I used to be a "believer" and regular church-goer, and even a deacon for a while, but now I will never set foot in a church again because of the power&control abuse that I have both witnessed and suffered in multiple churches.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Strings

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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2006, 01:30:34 PM »
I've seen LOTS of "Christian Bashing", and usually argue against the bashers: religious bigotry ALWAYS bothers me, for some reason. Usually, the bashers are doin' the herd thing anyways, which is comtemptable in itself...

280plus

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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2006, 02:02:56 PM »
To each his own.
Avoid cliches like the plague!

cosine

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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2006, 02:09:23 PM »
Quote from: GoRon
Quote from: Nightfall
OR those who have dismissed the existence of certain higher beings based on logic and/or scientific reasoning.
According to their opinion. Unless of course I missed where "science" proved there is no spiritual realm.
I must have missed that too. Like GoRon said, it's 'their opinion." I never knew that science had either proved or disproved the spiritual realm.

Conversely, there are those people who have based their belief in the existance of a higher being on logic and/or reason. It can be done.



Now, about the question put forth in the first post of the thread...

I think Sindawe's answer to the question hits it on the head pretty well.
Andy

The Rabbi

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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2006, 02:17:23 PM »
I wouldnt discount the generational aspect.  A lot of tech people tend to be younger.  Younger people in general tend to be less religious in the formal sense.  Older people tend to be more religious.
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Art Eatman

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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2006, 03:02:58 PM »
As far as derrogating religions:  I think a large part of it stems from the fact that to be religious means self-discipline insofar as "baser instincts".  Self control.  Ever since the '60s and Tim Leary's "If it feels good, do it!" became pouplar with a large segment of younger people--who are now middle-aged--there has been much less self-discipline, much less self-control.

Don't believe me?  Look at the numbers for credit card debt.  Look at the success of TV ads with thier implicit "Gratification now!" and "You deserve..."

Hedonism and religion don't get along well together.

And, statists don't like the idea of a Higher Power.  Government is supposed to be the highest power.

Art
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crt360

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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2006, 04:45:54 PM »
Quote
Hedonism and religion don't get along well together.
They might.  Many religious people I know seem to use it (religion) as a balance to their Hedonism.  I suspect this has always been the case.  Religious participation cleanses the guilty conscience and allows people to continue to wallow uninhibited in their sinful ways.  Those that practice religion to the point of enhanced self-discipline are usually called monks.  Most people have just done the bare amount necessary to be saved.  Some who think they need more saving might spend a little more time praying and offering.

Quote
Don't believe me?  Look at the numbers for credit card debt.  Look at the success of TV ads with thier implicit "Gratification now!" and "You deserve..."
This is certainly present, but I think it is more the side-effect of "successful" capitalism.  I'm certain that had millions of Americans been hammered with $5000-10,, 0% for 1 year, then fixed at 6.8% (but really goes to 27.99% because one of your payments was received a day late) offers daily, back in the 1920s, they'd have been in the same boat.

I think one of the main factors is the openness and sheer volume of information easily available now.  When I was a kid, I either believed what someone told me or I didn't.  We had schools with skimpy government approved text books, little school libraries, and TVs that got a few stations.  We read newspapers and magazines.  There was no other place to learn about things you really were trying to learn about.  Thinking back about it, I wonder how we all weren't dumber than dirt.  What I'm getting at is kids now are inundated with information and choices from an early age that we couldn't even imagine back then.  When I questioned things that my Sunday school teachers couldn't explain or told me I had to accept as the truth based on my faith in something that I had never seen, I either had to buy what the teacher was selling or discount it.  From the churchs position, it was wrong to question it in the first place and not believing was even worse.  I couldn't hop on the internet and instantly get hundreds of other opinions or explanations like we can now.  The open availability of information has to some degree divided (but not conquered) religion by giving people the freedom to research the issues, learn more, and make better informed decisions.

I also feel similarly to Tallpine regarding the power and control issues of organized religion and I think that this is another big thing which turns many away from the church.  Its like another government that you have to subject yourself to, with people, no better than yourself, in higher positions, making decisions that you are expected to support.  Some churches are arguably much better than others in this matter, but all churches, by their very nature as gathering places for dozens to thousands of people who want to belong, are magnets for people who want to assert influence and control over others.
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Standing Wolf

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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2006, 05:21:38 PM »
According to my kitty, the Great Cat is just biding her time.

I figure she's probably just loafing like most cats.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

Strings

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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2006, 06:54:27 PM »
speaking of power and control issues, allow an anecdote...

 Two of my friends are getting married: she's VERY pagan, he's somewhat Christian (from a VERY Christian family). As a gesture to his parents, the bride to be suggested that they get married in the groom to be's old church (where his parents still attend). The preacher made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't preform any such ceremony, heaping abuse on the Btb in the process. ALL she did was say that she wasn't of the same faith, and had no intentions of converting...

 Things like this can easily result in religion being ridiculed...

Headless Thompson Gunner

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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2006, 07:00:43 PM »

The Rabbi

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« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2006, 05:53:16 AM »
Quote from: Hunter Rose
speaking of power and control issues, allow an anecdote...

 Two of my friends are getting married: she's VERY pagan, he's somewhat Christian (from a VERY Christian family). As a gesture to his parents, the bride to be suggested that they get married in the groom to be's old church (where his parents still attend). The preacher made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't preform any such ceremony, heaping abuse on the Btb in the process. ALL she did was say that she wasn't of the same faith, and had no intentions of converting...

 Things like this can easily result in religion being ridiculed...
It is always easy to ridicule people with standards.
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cosine

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Religion not COOL?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2006, 06:08:33 AM »
Rabbi, I think the problem was that the preacher was "heaping abuse" on the bride to be, instead of just simply refusing to perform the ceremony. I understood that the abuse is what leads to religion being ridiculed, not the refusal to perform the ceremony.

I know that in similar circumstances I probably would refuse to perform such a ceremony, but I wouldn't ridicule or abuse the party with a different or nonexistant belief system than mine.
Andy

onions!

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« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2006, 06:43:14 AM »
A few of us were talking about this here at work the other day.The consensus is that it's O.K. to say that you're a gay masturbater but,unless it's out of the norm,don't even mention your religon.

280plus

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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2006, 07:06:54 AM »
By "gay" you mean light hearted and frivilous I presume...

Tongue
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onions!

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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2006, 07:30:53 AM »
Quote from: 280plus
By "gay" you mean light hearted and frivilous I presume...

Tongue
Could be rabbit,could be!:lol:

richyoung

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Religion not COOL?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2006, 07:42:13 AM »
Quote from: Hunter Rose
speaking of power and control issues, allow an anecdote...

 Two of my friends are getting married: she's VERY pagan, he's somewhat Christian (from a VERY Christian family). As a gesture to his parents, the bride to be suggested that they get married in the groom to be's old church (where his parents still attend). The preacher made it abundantly clear that he wouldn't preform any such ceremony, heaping abuse on the Btb in the process. ALL she did was say that she wasn't of the same faith, and had no intentions of converting...

 Things like this can easily result in religion being ridiculed...
So the preacher is supposed to just bend over and sanction and bless something that's against his religion?  Suppose she was Satanic, and they were getting married in HER church - would you expect hte head whatever to be just FINE with him, and his family and friends, wearing chrosses and praying to God IN THEIR CHURCH?
  Why should it be a black mark for a religion to stand up for its own beliefs?   If it doesn't, its not much of a religion.  If they just want a civil ceremony, they can get a justice of the peace.  A church wedding is both a civil ceremony and a RELIGIOUS ceremony - if the head "blesser" in charge can't, in good conscience bless the union, what else do you expect?
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richyoung

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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2006, 07:46:37 AM »
Quote from: cosine
Rabbi, I think the problem was that the preacher was "heaping abuse" on the bride to be, instead of just simply refusing to perform the ceremony. I understood that the abuse is what leads to religion being ridiculed, not the refusal to perform the ceremony.

I know that in similar circumstances I probably would refuse to perform such a ceremony, but I wouldn't ridicule or abuse the party with a different or nonexistant belief system than mine.
One person's proseltizing out of a sincere concern for the other's future is very often, in my experience, described as "heaping abuse", especially by those who in fact have little beleif or faith in what they claim to beleive in.  Of course, if the bride involved REALLY believes in driads, wood nymphs water spirits, etc. as opposed to claiming to be pagan to be: 1. trendy, (who ever heard of caballa before Madonna hopped onto its band wagon?) or 2: irritate her parents and everyone else, I appologize....
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...