Art said, "Hedonism and religion don't get along well together."
crt360 said, "They might. Many religious people I know seem to use it (religion) as a balance to their Hedonism."
Yeah, fine; SOME. What I'm talking about is the modern preponderance of hedonism for a great many. They're not looking for balance. They don't want restraint. As usual, I'm talking about "many", not "all".
Art: "Don't believe me? Look at the numbers for credit card debt. Look at the success of TV ads with thier implicit "Gratification now!" and "You deserve..."
crt360: "This is certainly present, but I think it is more the side-effect of "successful" capitalism. I'm certain that had millions of Americans been hammered with $5000-10,, 0% for 1 year, then fixed at 6.8% (but really goes to 27.99% because one of your payments was received a day late) offers daily, back in the 1920s, they'd have been in the same boat."
Yeah, but I'm talking about today. Look at your following statement about available information. If these people USE the available information, they wouldn't get themselves into "hedonistic pickles".
crt360: "I think one of the main factors is the openness and sheer volume of information easily available now. When I was a kid, I either believed what someone told me or I didn't. We had schools with skimpy government approved text books, little school libraries, and TVs that got a few stations. We read newspapers and magazines. There was no other place to learn about things you really were trying to learn about. Thinking back about it, I wonder how we all weren't dumber than dirt."
Well, I graduated from high school in 1951. I learned enough to be independently not-broke by the time I was 45 years sold, back in 1979. For that matter, were the Founding Fathers dumber than dirt?
Information does not create wisdom, nor does great intelligence.
crt360: "I also feel similarly to Tallpine regarding the power and control issues of organized religion and I think that this is another big thing which turns many away from the church. Its like another government that you have to subject yourself to, with people, no better than yourself, in higher positions, making decisions that you are expected to support. Some churches are arguably much better than others in this matter, but all churches, by their very nature as gathering places for dozens to thousands of people who want to belong, are magnets for people who want to assert influence and control over others."
True, but that's a people-behavior function. Not all preachers are that way. Not all sects are that way. Face it, you're always gonna find somebody that likes having power over others, whether governmental hired hands or church-biggies. Most of the preachers I've ever known are pretty much live and let live types. Their basic deal is that if you want a good life, believe in your religion and behave accordingly. If A, then B.
A good preacher tries to interpret, not give orders.
, Art
