Art: "Don't believe me? Look at the numbers for credit card debt. Look at the success of TV ads with thier implicit "Gratification now!" and "You deserve..."
crt360: "This is certainly present, but I think it is more the side-effect of "successful" capitalism. I'm certain that had millions of Americans been hammered with $5000-10,, 0% for 1 year, then fixed at 6.8% (but really goes to 27.99% because one of your payments was received a day late) offers daily, back in the 1920s, they'd have been in the same boat."
Art: Yeah, but I'm talking about today. Look at your following statement about available information. If these people USE the available information, they wouldn't get themselves into "hedonistic pickles".
True, now that its happened to enough people. But before it became the topic of news, many were abused with interest rates that would be considered usurious and illegal if collected by any other type of business. An exception was created specifically for credit card companies that very few people knew about or should have expected.
crt360: "I think one of the main factors is the openness and sheer volume of information easily available now. When I was a kid, I either believed what someone told me or I didn't. We had schools with skimpy government approved text books, little school libraries, and TVs that got a few stations. We read newspapers and magazines. There was no other place to learn about things you really were trying to learn about. Thinking back about it, I wonder how we all weren't dumber than dirt."
Art: Well, I graduated from high school in 1951. I learned enough to be independently not-broke by the time I was 45 years sold, back in 1979. For that matter, were the Founding Fathers dumber than dirt?
Information does not create wisdom, nor does great intelligence.
That was part of a larger reference to the lack of shared religious information and I was half-joking about being dumber than dirt.
Art, Ive read enough of your posts to respect and envy your undertakings and success. Its true that wisdom, knowledge, intelligence, and information are not necessary for getting by. Ive known some people that were very short on those things, but quite successful financially. They keep my profession busy.
While information may not create wisdom, wisdom cannot be gained without it.
Art: True, but that's a people-behavior function. Not all preachers are that way. Not all sects are that way. Face it, you're always gonna find somebody that likes having power over others, whether governmental hired hands or church-biggies. Most of the preachers I've ever known are pretty much live and let live types. Their basic deal is that if you want a good life, believe in your religion and behave accordingly. If A, then B.
A good preacher tries to interpret, not give orders.
I agree. I wasnt particularly dogging on preachers. Ive known quite a few small town preachers that were great guys and had no desire to gain more power or control people. It's pretty easy to spot the bad ones. On a small scale, Im thinking more about congregation and church council members; the ones who bicker over whether the preacher is right for our church or not; the ones who fire the preacher that everyone else likes because his sermons arent monotonous enough. Not to mention the churchladies who think we need to a pitch in for new $20,000 stained glass to outdo the church down the street. On a larger scale, Im talking about the really high-ups who decide which direction the church as a whole will go, what political positions they will take, which people they will not accept in their congregation or ministry, etc. It has been my observation (correct or not) that this was one of the functions of the church from the very beginning - controlling the masses, by telling them what to believe - and I'm afraid there was a little more order-giving and a little less interpreting than we'd like to think.
