No Blood For Cures

[Perd Hapley]

If Obama was de-criminalizing embryonic stem cell research that would one thing.  But it was already legal. 

What he did today, was to decide that your tax dollars could be used to fund such research, even if you think that killing embryos is murder. 

Was that really necessary?   

[AZRedhawk44]

I hear ya.

So many people are now conditioned to think that for research to happen, it MUST be subsidized by government money.  It really is a shame.  Regardless where you stand on stem cell research... this is more of a tax-and-spend issue than it is a proper use of embryonic cells issue.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If Obama was de-criminalizing embryonic stem cell research that would one thing.  But it was already legal. 

What he did today, was to decide that your tax dollars could be used to fund such research, even if you think that killing embryos is murder. 

Was that really necessary?   

Of course it was necessary.  He said ti was necessary.  Who are you to doubt him?

[makattak]

Of course it was necessary.  He said ti was necessary.  Who are you to doubt him?

Hey, I heard a doctor from Boston on the radio this morning who said that now we can find the cures for parkinsons and alzheimers! After all, there are doctors who want this, how could it be a bad thing.

Anyone opposed to it is just opposed to science, anyway. They should be ignored- we all know anyone who is opposed to science must be crazy.

Our new rallying cry: "Death to all who oppose science!"

Edit: <Most of the preceeding was sarcasm and satire. Please do not construe my post as serious in any way. Except for the part about the radio, I really did hear that>

[RoadKingLarry]

Proponents make it sound like embryonic stem cell research is the direct express route to the cure of everything, the pot of gold at the end of the medical rainbow. If that is the case why has the private sector not invested more heavily? I really don't think it is a constitutional function of our government to be spending billions of our tax dollars funding what should be private research of anykind.

[El Tejon]

Ahh, yes, The Scientists. :rolleyes:

Or, as I call them, The Agendaists. 

Science=another way to have others give money to beggars

[Manedwolf]

This is not even necessary. They've already found that all the cures can be pursued using adult stem cells.

[MicroBalrog]

Now. I do not view embryos as human, but I think that funding the stem cell research Federally is unconstitutional.

Mind, it would probably be constitutional for, say, the Californians to fund them.

[coppertales]

I hear you.  I have been saying, since this issue came up, that all of these research companies did not want to use their own money to research stem cells.  They wanted the government, aka you and me, to fund their black hole.  You can hear that great sucking sound starting up right now. People I have talked to about this look at me like I am from Mars or something.  The news media really pulled off one this time with their ajenda of making Bush look bad.....chris3

[Perd Hapley]

No blud for there ajenda, ether. 

[MechAg94]

I hear you.  I have been saying, since this issue came up, that all of these research companies did not want to use their own money to research stem cells.  They wanted the government, aka you and me, to fund their black hole.  You can hear that great sucking sound starting up right now. People I have talked to about this look at me like I am from Mars or something.  The news media really pulled off one this time with their ajenda of making Bush look bad.....chris3

The problem was the debate was always framed out with the abortion issue and never as a "who should be funding this?" issue. 

[Perd Hapley]

The problem was the debate was always framed out with the abortion issue and never as a "who should be funding this?" issue. 

You mean, the way cuts in spending increases are always portrayed as actual cuts?   :rolleyes:

[MrRezister]

Seems like this is another instance where the liberals have framed the argument in such a way that everyone who disagrees with them can be routinely dismissed as "religious nutjobs".  Every news story I've heard about this today made it sound like Bush banned the research altogether, instead of just turning off the spigot of federal funds.

[FTA84]

See renovated post on page 2

[Perd Hapley]

Can you please delete all of that, and add something relating to the topic?   

[Manedwolf]

Seems like this is another instance where the liberals have framed the argument in such a way that everyone who disagrees with them can be routinely dismissed as "religious nutjobs".  Every news story I've heard about this today made it sound like Bush banned the research altogether, instead of just turning off the spigot of federal funds.

And this is ignorance on the part of the liberals, because it isn't needed. NOBODY minds the use of adult stem cells, and it turns out those will work just fine.

This is actually distracting from real research.

[AZRedhawk44]

Can you please delete all of that, and add something relating to the topic?   

Lolz.

FTA:  The topic is goobermint FUNDING of embryonic stem cells... not whether or not "they iz evulz" or "they iz teh gr8est fur fiksin stuf so go awai u baibel tumper!!1!1one!"

Regardless of good/bad, there is no government ban on the research.  This is an issue of taxpayer funding versus corporate funding.  If it were profitable or likely to yield reasonable results, companies would be all over it.

It's just a financial sink-hole.

[Firethorn]

It's just a financial sink-hole.

The best justification I've heard about is that work on embryonic stem cells would provide basic knowledge about how stem cells work; theoretical research as opposed to practical.  IE discovering how stem cells develop, say, into a liver.  You then go 'we need to get adult stem cells to do that'.  Because the research is more theoretical in nature, it's less likely to result in hugely profitable patents, thus is underfunded by businesses.

Otherwise, embryonic stemcells are of limited medical use, lacking any cells saved from the time you were a fetus(umbilical cord stem cells), treatments with embryonic or near embryonic would be lacking due to the same rejection issues that stem from organ transplants today.

On the other hand, you'd think that the rest of the world could make up for the lack of government sponsored research in the USA with their own subsidies rather easily.  Not being a cellular biologist, that the other countries haven't made up the difference makes me think that those trying for funding of those lines of research haven't been able to prove that the research will be of value in line with the costs.

[makattak]

I have also heard that Obama also defunded the research that was looking into alternatives to embryonic stem cells.

Instead, Obama eliminated the Bush policy and then took the unusual and provocative step of also rescinding Bush’s 2007 executive order providing support for alternative sources of stem cells — an order that in no way limited embryonic stem-cell research and need not have been retracted. Having lifted these restrictions, Obama put no rules or boundaries of any kind in their place, instructing the scientists at the National Institutes of Health to do so on his behalf over the next few months. Obama’s executive order makes no mention of any moral qualm about the destruction of human embryos — whether left over from fertility treatments or created especially for experimentation, including human embryos created by cloning.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MzEzNDI1OWJiZmRkN2NiNTU1NmVhNTJmYzRhOWNmZmE=


Yep, because we can't have a federal government money funding reserach into a promising field that may make embryonic stem cells an unnecessary debate. We have to use government money to stick it to people who don't believe in Science!

For Science!

[MicroBalrog]

You mean, the way cuts in spending increases are always portrayed as actual cuts?   :rolleyes:

Well, you yourself framed the topic as "No blood for cures"  - thus implying a right-to-life/abortion significance to this issue.

Firethorn here says that there is a role to embryonic stem cell research even if we're going to end up using adult stem cells to cure diseases rather than embryonic ones. I don't know if this is true, but this sounds very interesting to me - I'm not a biologist, I don't play one on TV, I don't know what these things mean.

On the other hand, the Constitution grants no power to the government to fund medical research, either into embryonic nor into adult stem cells. As such the proper answer is to fund neither.

[MechAg94]

But apparently no one was able to get significant private funding or non-US govt funding to do that "relevant" research. 

The news just last night told me that Parkinson's will now be cured!!  (or was that just new hope or something similar)

[makattak]

But apparently no one was able to get significant private funding or non-US govt funding to do that "relevant" research. 

The news just last night told me that Parkinson's will now be cured!!  (or was that just new hope or something similar)

And "Under Obama, the paralyzed will take their first steps on earth!" (From one of the wheelchair-bound at the signing of the order)

Nothing like preying on the hopes of the handicapped.

[MicroBalrog]

The news just last night told me that Parkinson's will now be cured!!  (or was that just new hope or something similar)

Indeed, there has been major breakthroughs with Parkinon's research. Of course, these have started during Bush's reign, but who cares?

[makattak]

Indeed, there has been major breakthroughs with Parkinon's research. Of course, these have started during Bush's reign, but who cares?

And that is precisely the research Obama just DE-funded. (See my previous post for the defunding)

Deploying a method that removes potentially cancer-causing genes, Whitehead Institute researchers have "reprogrammed" human skin cells from Parkinson's disease patients into an embryonic-stem-cell-like state.

[roo_ster]

And that is precisely the research Obama just DE-funded. (See my previous post for the defunding)

If you can't turn potential human life into chum on the backs of the taxpayers, it is just not worth doing.