"Greek" riots spreading over Europe

[Viking]

What are the Swedish laws on domestic usage of military units in riot suppression?

We had a policy against it, going back to the 1930's, when the army shot 5 people dead at a demonstration - since back in those days, cops were a rare species, so they used conscripts to try to stop this march/demonstration, especially on the countryside. Anyhow, it's now legal for the armed forces - whatever we have left of them - to assist the police in certain circumstances. I'm not sure if riots qualify for it. Looking into it a bit, it appears they can assist against terrorist threats. Hell, I say these events qualify for that! Not sure others agree though :rolleyes:. After all, we are supposed to feel sorry for them :rolleyes:. Read a newspaper article that honestly claimed that the architecture in these areas were to blame for the riots. Odd that, the houses have been there since the 1950's-1970's, and we sure didn't have car burnings, rapes, robberies etc back then when the areas where first populated by Swedish workers... :rolleyes:.

[RevDisk]

We had a policy against it, going back to the 1930's, when the army shot 5 people dead at a demonstration - since back in those days, cops were a rare species, so they used conscripts to try to stop this march/demonstration, especially on the countryside. Anyhow, it's now legal for the armed forces - whatever we have left of them - to assist the police in certain circumstances. I'm not sure if riots qualify for it. Looking into it a bit, it appears they can assist against terrorist threats. Hell, I say these events qualify for that! Not sure others agree though :rolleyes:. After all, we are supposed to feel sorry for them :rolleyes:. Read a newspaper article that honestly claimed that the architecture in these areas were to blame for the riots. Odd that, the houses have been there since the 1950's-1970's, and we sure didn't have car burnings, rapes, robberies etc back then when the areas where first populated by Swedish workers... :rolleyes:.

I cross trained with all of the Nordic militaries, including the Swedish.  While their numbers are limited, their equipment and training is excellent.  Ask your neighbors, the Finns, if that strategy can be efficient.  Granted, training was small arms and not specifically riot control, but...  Never know when that comes in handy in dealing with looters.  If your govt had the will, I'd bet my life that the Swedish Army would do the job as required.  Hell, I remember the Swedish pulling an Alamo near Caglovica (I think) and held off a mob with only a couple men and little ammo.  The American CG played turtle; cowardly bastard.


Uhm.  Just curious, what was the newspaper article's claim on the architecture and its influence?  They used too much concrete, and not enough designer brick?

[Viking]

I cross trained with all of the Nordic militaries, including the Swedish.  While their numbers are limited, their equipment and training is excellent.  Ask your neighbors, the Finns, if that strategy can be efficient.  Granted, training was small arms and not specifically riot control, but...  Never know when that comes in handy in dealing with looters.  If your govt had the will, I'd bet my life that the Swedish Army would do the job as required.  Hell, I remember the Swedish pulling an Alamo near Caglovica (I think) and held off a mob with only a couple men and little ammo.  The American CG played turtle; cowardly bastard.

Uhm.  Just curious, what was the newspaper article's claim on the architecture and its influence?  They used too much concrete, and not enough designer brick?

It was an older article, but it adresses basically the same sort of things. It seems to have been archived/pulled, so I can't read all of it, but the gist of it seems to be that the area is "unfriendly" and thus generates crimes, in the same established way that guns generates school shootings, and spoons are responsible for making Rosie fat. Anyhow, some pot smoking do-gooder believed that a big public square would help, so people could hold meetings there and be democratic and do all that worldsaving fluffy bunny crap. Personally, I don't believe it'll do any difference. The area is pretty run down in certain aspects. The city did/does spend a lot of money at basketball courts, football fields etc. Apparently, this is not enough, because the poor widdle chyyyldren are still bored, and torch cars to amuse themselves, demanding that we activate them and make sure they have fun. I mean, what the hell are they? Dogs that needs a master to chuck some tennis balls for them? Retards?
Since I grew up outside the town I live in, I didn't have any playgrounds nearby, nor any basketball courts, football fields or such. Strangely enough, I managed to grow up without torching any cars. Am I odd because of this?

I'll write some more tomorrow sometime, I need to hit the sack right now.

[agricola]

It was an older article, but it adresses basically the same sort of things. It seems to have been archived/pulled, so I can't read all of it, but the gist of it seems to be that the area is "unfriendly" and thus generates crimes, in the same established way that guns generates school shootings, and spoons are responsible for making Rosie fat. Anyhow, some pot smoking do-gooder believed that a big public square would help, so people could hold meetings there and be democratic and do all that worldsaving fluffy bunny crap. Personally, I don't believe it'll do any difference. The area is pretty run down in certain aspects. The city did/does spend a lot of money at basketball courts, football fields etc. Apparently, this is not enough, because the poor widdle chyyyldren are still bored, and torch cars to amuse themselves, demanding that we activate them and make sure they have fun. I mean, what the hell are they? Dogs that needs a master to chuck some tennis balls for them? Retards?
Since I grew up outside the town I live in, I didn't have any playgrounds nearby, nor any basketball courts, football fields or such. Strangely enough, I managed to grow up without torching any cars. Am I odd because of this?

I'll write some more tomorrow sometime, I need to hit the sack right now.

There is definately an argument that the youth has never had it so good in most of the EU, both in terms of the chances available to them, the wealth levels of the population and the almost complete abdication of responsibility from the state and society generally when they misbehave (in fact its probably worse - lots of the EU member states actively seek to prevent anyone from enforcing responsibility). 

This is why we (at least we in the UK) have ended up with an horrendous youth crime epidemic that is entirely fuelled by completely needless acts of violence, and is - until the little darlings actually kill someone - designed to excuse the youth's offending away in a cloud of liberal idiocy. 

As for the riots, at least the Greek riots have at their heart a genuine issue of concern.  The French riots of 2005 were just idiotic, though they did play a large part in getting Sarkozy elected.   

[Viking]

There is definately an argument that the youth has never had it so good in most of the EU, both in terms of the chances available to them, the wealth levels of the population and the almost complete abdication of responsibility from the state and society generally when they misbehave (in fact its probably worse - lots of the EU member states actively seek to prevent anyone from enforcing responsibility). 

This is why we (at least we in the UK) have ended up with an horrendous youth crime epidemic that is entirely fuelled by completely needless acts of violence, and is - until the little darlings actually kill someone - designed to excuse the youth's offending away in a cloud of liberal idiocy. 

As for the riots, at least the Greek riots have at their heart a genuine issue of concern.  The French riots of 2005 were just idiotic, though they did play a large part in getting Sarkozy elected.   

You guys are still better at actually punishing "the poor widdle chyyyldren" when they go apeshit. Over here, people have gotten off with a €200 fine and 30 hours of community service for taking part in a killing. You atleast haul their asses off to prison...I don't think we are seeing quite the levels of youth violence that you guys are having, not at the moment. Being a pessimist, I expect it to get worse though.

[roo_ster]

If your govt had the will, I'd bet my life that the Swedish Army would do the job as required.  Hell, I remember the Swedish pulling an Alamo near Caglovica (I think) and held off a mob with only a couple men and little ammo.  The American CG played turtle; cowardly bastard.

Weasely Clark?

[RevDisk]

Weasely Clark?

Clark was an ambious political general who nearly started WWIII trying to take an underground facility from the Russian Federation but he wasn't a coward AFAIK.  Thank the Gods for British sensibility, there.  Our rotation did a pretty decent job.  The rotation following us was undermanned and over-officered worse than our's.  A short duration after our rotation left, some of the locals got ramped up and did the usual mob stuff.  Instead of handling the locals appropriately, the CG locked the gates and ordered everyone to not do anything.  The US had the most aviation support and we could drop in a couple infantry squads armed to the gills within minutes to provide cover until the Bradley's or Apaches were on station (within 20, 30 minutes).  The US general, may he burn in whatever Hell he believes in, did not choose to support our allies. 


Some Swedes (and a few other Euros I think) held off an angry mob bent on burning down a religious site with probably less than a few hundred rounds between the lot of them.  No crew serve, don't even think they had 40mm's.  They ended up Ok, but they should have had Americans in Blackhawks with miniguns or a pair of Apaches ready to rain down the Wrath of the Gods(tm) on the mob if they tried to BBQ our buddies.  I felt guilty as hell demob'ing at Ft Dix and the most angry I can remember at the CG, his career-minded ticket-punching toady staff of empty suit sycophants pretending to be officers, and to a lesser extent, all of our replacements who could have done something to help even if they had to keep it from their own chain of command.  At a minimum, someone could have kicked some ammo out the door of a helo. 

[agricola]

Revdisk,

Thats why its amazing Clark is still a political figure - you would have thought that the first question out of the mouth of any half-decent reporter would be "Didnt you almost start WW3?". 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

If Clark were a Republican, that's exactly what the first question would be.  You have to remember that the reporters in this country aren't actually reporters, they're PR agents for the Democrat Party.

[Francis Marion]

Viking, you have me laughing out loud.  Well written.
If you're ever in need of a new country, just come on over.
We'll have a Swedish Mauser waiting for you.

[Viking]

Viking, you have me laughing out loud.  Well written.
If you're ever in need of a new country, just come on over.
We'll have a Swedish Mauser waiting for you.

Thanks, and I'm trying to get over. I need to start studying again and get a degree of some kind though. Doesn't look like the Green Card Lottery is the best option.

[gunsmith]

Thanks, and I'm trying to get over. I need to start studying again and get a degree of some kind though. Doesn't look like the Green Card Lottery is the best option.

If you were the dishonest type you could simply go to Mexico, easily get Mexican ID and American job, but we know you better then that.

[Viking]

If you were the dishonest type you could simply go to Mexico, easily get Mexican ID and American job, but we know you better then that.

Exactly, but some immigrants have to keep up some standards, right?
Besides, I would have to learn Spanish, and I'm not going to take classes in that language ever again! 6 years of it in school, and the only thing I can say is "Una cerveza, por favor" .

[Iapetus]

It was an older article, but it adresses basically the same sort of things. It seems to have been archived/pulled, so I can't read all of it, but the gist of it seems to be that the area is "unfriendly" and thus generates crimes, in the same established way that guns generates school shootings, and spoons are responsible for making Rosie fat.

I can't speak for that article, but I have seen some seemingly reasonable discussions on the effects of estate design on crime.

Such as are the houses are laid out so that someone can break into one without being seen by the neighbours; are there lots of alleyways and alcoves for people to lurk in or escape from the police down; are houses/streets/walkways etc laid out to make it easy for people to meet their neighbours, or does the layout encourage people to keep to themselves; is the street-lighting well designed so as to create even illumination, or does it create alternate patches of bright (where you get dazzled) and dark (for criminals to lurk in), etc

That said, I've seen some seemingly reasonable arguments that directly contradict other seeminly reasonable arguments. 

[Viking]

I can't speak for that article, but I have seen some seemingly reasonable discussions on the effects of estate design on crime.

Such as are the houses are laid out so that someone can break into one without being seen by the neighbours; are there lots of alleyways and alcoves for people to lurk in or escape from the police down; are houses/streets/walkways etc laid out to make it easy for people to meet their neighbours, or does the layout encourage people to keep to themselves; is the street-lighting well designed so as to create even illumination, or does it create alternate patches of bright (where you get dazzled) and dark (for criminals to lurk in), etc

That said, I've seen some seemingly reasonable arguments that directly contradict other seeminly reasonable arguments. 

IMHO, the theory is bullshit, and I can give the perfect reason for why I feel that way. When the areas were built, they soon filled up with people who moved in from the countryside. Yes, they were boring & bland back then, and they still are, but crime was low, same as the rest of the country. Fast forward 20 years or so, and our insane asylum politics are in full force, and the areas are now being populated by illiterate goat farmers from various third-world hellholes. Crime, especially assaults, robberies & rape skyrocket. It's not a problem with the architecture, it's a problem with the people who live there. They refuse to learn the language, they refuse to integrate, they refuse to get jobs. Since our politicians are more naive than a kitten, they accept this and let it go on. Now, we reap from what we've sown. And the politicians are frantic in trying to shift the blame away from themselves and away from the people who throw the stones. Thus, we get the imbecilles who pretends to be journalists or serious researchers who defend them by blaming architecture, or "structural discrimination", or whatever the buzzword of the day is.

[Balog]

Damn it Viking, every time I read your posts I want you in this country more.

[Manedwolf]

Good.

I hope nobody here in Europe is affected, but maybe this will teach the general population why it's important to be armed.

I've talked to people over there who are absolutely astonished that I am allowed, by law, to shoot someone who is about to throw a molotov at a building with people in it, and that it is not a crime.

There? They'd be in prison, the molotov thrower would get a wristslap.

So this is the result of that sort of policy.

[Viking]

Damn it Viking, every time I read your posts I want you in this country more.

http://www.reason.com/images/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad.jpg
It's going to be a while...

[Viking]

Good.

I hope nobody here in Europe is affected, but maybe this will teach the general population why it's important to be armed.

I've talked to people over there who are absolutely astonished that I am allowed, by law, to shoot someone who is about to throw a molotov at a building with people in it, and that it is not a crime.

There? They'd be in prison, the molotov thrower would get a wristslap.

So this is the result of that sort of policy.

[Leftard]But they are just young boys!111!!!oneone!!!![/Leftard]
Yes, I've heard this "excuse", used by a wellknown, but (atleast I think) not very respected criminologist. The crime commited? A police station in the city of Södertälje, in the Ronna area, which is heavily infested with shitheads from various backwards countries, had an AK-47 emptied against it. He referred to this as "a prank", commited by "young boys" (they were aged from 17 to 35 or something IIRC). That day, I felt that he deserved to have napalm poured down the letter slot in his door...

[Manedwolf]

I expect there will be riots in the US when Obama's New New Deal doesn't give all the entitlement sorts a million dollars and their own magic ponies, but they won't be like the ones in Europe at all. Or last as long.

Remember the Korean shopkeepers up on the roofs during the LA riots, with SKSs? Guess whose stores weren't burned down?

[Viking]

I expect there will be riots in the US when Obama's New New Deal doesn't give all the entitlement sorts a million dollars and their own magic ponies, but they won't be like the ones in Europe at all. Or last as long.

Remember the Korean shopkeepers up on the roofs during the LA riots, with SKSs? Guess whose stores weren't burned down?

Closest thing here would probably be when a bunch of ordinary workers grabbed blunt & heavy object and went out to crack communist skulls during the Gothenburg EU summit riots...I've also heard that the cops turned a blind eye to the doings of the Wisemen (a hooligan firm) who also decided to bash some communists...