Author Topic: R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)  (Read 4482 times)

Stickjockey

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« on: September 20, 2005, 07:48:34 AM »
Famous Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal passed away yesterday. He was 96. Rest in Peace, sir. You've earned it.

From MSNBC.com:

Quote
LOS ANGELES - Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust survivor who helped track down Nazi war criminals following World War II, then spent the later decades of his life fighting anti-Semitism and prejudice against all people, died Tuesday. He was 96.

Wiesenthal died in his sleep at his home in Vienna, said Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.

I think hell be remembered as the conscience of the Holocaust. In a way he became the permanent representative of the victims of the Holocaust, determined to bring the perpetrators of the greatest crime to justice, Hier told The Associated Press.

Wiesenthal, who was an architect before World War II, changed his lifes mission after the war, dedicating himself to trying to track down Nazi war criminals and to being a voice for the 6 million Jews who died during the onslaught. He himself lost 89 relatives in the Holocaust.

Wiesenthal spent more than 50 years hunting Nazi war criminals, speaking out against neo-Nazism and racism, and remembering the Jewish experience as a lesson for humanity. Through his work, he said, some 1,100 Nazi war criminals were brought to justice.

When history looks back I want people to know the Nazis werent able to kill millions of people and get away with it, he once said.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry said Tuesday that Wiesenthal brought justice to those who had escaped justice.

He acted on behalf of 6 million people who could no longer defend themselves, ministry spokesman Mark Regev said. The state of Israel, the Jewish people and all those who oppose racism recognized Simon Wiesenthals unique contribution to making our planet a better place.

Concentration camp survivor
Calls of remorse poured into Wiesenthals office in Vienna, where one of his longtime assistants, Trudi Mergili, struggled to deal with her grief.

It was expected, she said. But it is still so hard.

(image)
Simon Wiesenthal, seen here in June 2005, was born in 1908 in what is now Ukraine and helped catch major Nazi war criminals such as Adolf Eichmann and Franz Stangl, the ex-commandant of the Treblinka death camp.
Wiesenthal was first sent to a concentration camp in 1941, outside Lviv, Ukraine, according to the Wiesenthal Center Web site. In October 1943, he escaped from the Ostbahn camp just before the Germans began killing all the inmates. He was recaptured in June 1944 and sent back to Janwska, but escaped death as his SS guards retreated westward with their prisoners from the Soviet Red Army.

Wiesenthals quest began after the Americans liberated the Mauthausen death camp in Austria where Wiesenthal was a prisoner in May 1945. It was his fifth death camp among the dozen Nazi camps in which he was imprisoned, and he weighed just 99 pounds when he was freed. He said he quickly realized there is no freedom without justice, and decided to dedicate a few years to that mission.

It became decades, he added.

Even after turning 90, Wiesenthal continued to remind and to warn. While appalled at atrocities committed by Serbs against ethnic Albanians in Kosovo in the 1990s, he said no one should confuse the tragedy there with the Holocaust.

We are living in a time of the trivialization of the word Holocaust, he told AP in 1999. What happened to the Jews cannot be compared with all the other crimes. Every Jew had a death sentence without a date.

Wiesenthals life spanned a violent century.

He was born on Dec. 31, 1908, to Jewish merchants at Buczacs, a small town near the present-day Ukrainian city of Lviv in what was then the Austro-Hungarian empire. He studied in Prague and Warsaw and in 1932 received a degree in civil engineering.

He apprenticed as a building engineer in Russia before returning to Lviv to open an architectural office. Then the Russians and the Germans occupied Lviv and the terror began.

After the war ended, working first with the Americans and later from a cramped Vienna apartment packed floor to ceiling with documents, Wiesenthal tirelessly pursued fugitive Nazi war criminals.

He was perhaps best known for his role in tracking down Adolf Eichmann, the one-time SS leader who organized the extermination of the Jews. Eichmann was found in Argentina, abducted by Israeli agents in 1960, tried and hanged for crimes committed against the Jews.

Wiesenthal often was accused of exaggerating his role in Eichmanns capture. He did not claim sole responsibility, but said he knew by 1954 where Eichmann was.

Eichmanns capture was a teamwork of many who did not know each other, Wiesenthal told the AP in 1972. I do not know if and to what extent reports I sent to Israel were used.

Among others Wiesenthal tracked down was Austrian policeman Karl Silberbauer, who he believed arrested the Dutch teenager Anne Frank and sent her to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp where she died.

Wiesenthal decided to pursue Silberbauer in 1958 after a youth told him he did not believe in Franks existence and murder, but would if Wiesenthal could find the man who arrested her. His five-year search resulted in Silberbauers 1963 capture.

Wiesenthal did not bring to justice one prime target  Dr. Josef Mengele, the infamous Angel of Death of the Auschwitz concentration camp. Mengele died in South America after eluding capture for decades.

Ignored and insulted
Wiesenthals long quest for justice also stirred controversy.

In Austria, which took decades to acknowledge its own role in Nazi crimes, Wiesenthal was ignored and often insulted before finally being honored for his work when he was in his 80s.

In 1975, then-Chancellor Bruno Kreisky, himself a Jew, suggested Wiesenthal was part of a certain mafia seeking to besmirch Austria. Kreisky even claimed Wiesenthal collaborated with Nazis to survive.

Ironically, it was the furor over Kurt Waldheim, who became president in 1986 despite lying about his past as an officer in Hitlers army, that gave Wiesenthal stature in Austria.

Wiesenthals failure to condemn Waldheim as a war criminal drew international ire and conflict with American Jewish groups. But it made Austrians realize that the Nazi hunter did not condemn everybody who took part in the Nazi war effort.

Wiesenthal did repeatedly demand Waldheims resignation, seeing him as a symbol of those who suppressed Austrias role as part of Hitlers German war and death machine. But he turned up no proof of widespread allegations that Waldheim was an accessory to war crimes.

'The world owes him'
Wiesenthals work also exposed him to danger.

His house and office have been guarded by an armed police officer since June 1982, when a bomb exploded at his front door, causing severe damage but resulting in no injuries, according to the Wiesenthal Center Web site. One German and several Austrian neo-Nazis were arrested.

He pursued his crusade of remembrance into old age with the vigor of youth, with patience and determination. But as he entered his 90s, he worried that his mission would die with him.

I think in a way the world owes him and his memory a tremendous amount of gratitude, Hier said.

Wiesenthal had more distinguished foreign awards than any other living Austrian citizen. In 1995, the city of Vienna made him an honorary citizen. He also wrote several books, including his memoirs, The Murderers Among Us, in 1967, and worked regularly at the small downtown office of his Jewish Documentation Center even after turning 90.

The most important thing I have done is to fight against forgetting and to keep remembrance alive, he said in the 1999 interview with The Associated Press. It is very important to let people know that our enemies are not forgotten.

Wiesenthals wife, Cyla, whom he married in 1936, died in November 2003.

A memorial service is tentatively planned to be held in Viennas central cemetery on Wednesday. Funeral services will be in Israel, said Avra Shapiro, the Wiesenthal Centers public relations director.
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SalukiFan

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2005, 08:07:46 AM »
Baruch Dayan HaEmet.
Blessed are you G-d, Ruler of the Universe, You are indeed the Judge.

He'll be remembered as a great man who had the courage and persistence to seek justice for the millions who died in the Holocaust.

The Rabbi

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2005, 09:13:29 AM »
Quote from: SalukiFan
Baruch ata Adonai Eloheynu melech ha-olam, dayan ha-emet.
Blessed are you G-d, Ruler of the Universe, You are indeed the Judge.

He'll be remembered as a great man who had the courage and persistence to seek justice for the millions who died in the Holocaust.
Except the convention is to write merely "Baruch Dayan HaEmes."

I am of mixed feelings.  Certainly he brought many low lifes and murderers to justice, which they richly deserved.
But I hate to see the Holocaust be almost the sum total of anyone's Jewish identity and the thing most non Jews associate with us.
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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2005, 09:43:12 AM »
The man had some stones, R.I.P.

SalukiFan

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2005, 10:05:57 AM »
Quote from: The Rabbi
Quote from: SalukiFan
Baruch ata Adonai Eloheynu melech ha-olam, dayan ha-emet.
Blessed are you G-d, Ruler of the Universe, You are indeed the Judge.

He'll be remembered as a great man who had the courage and persistence to seek justice for the millions who died in the Holocaust.
Except the convention is to write merely "Baruch Dayan HaEmes."
Got it.  I will edit my post.  I'm used to saying it rather than writing it.

Art Eatman

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2005, 11:05:21 AM »
Rabbi, when you consider the attention span and the lack of any knowledge of history on the part of the Average Merkin*, at least the awareness of the Holocaust makes for less susceptibility to the BS of the Jew-haters...

Art

*  Remember LBJ's, "My fellow Merkins..."?  Then, finding a comprehensive dictionary, you discover that merkin is belly-button lint...
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The Rabbi

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2005, 11:58:16 AM »
Quote from: Art Eatman
Rabbi, when you consider the attention span and the lack of any knowledge of history on the part of the Average Merkin*, at least the awareness of the Holocaust makes for less susceptibility to the BS of the Jew-haters...

Art

*  Remember LBJ's, "My fellow Merkins..."?  Then, finding a comprehensive dictionary, you discover that merkin is belly-button lint...
Art,
I am certainly sympathetic to that.  But it should not take a horrible event to make people stop hating whole groups for no reason at all.  It shouldnt take anything, really.  But for many Jews their identity as such begins in 1936 and ends in 1945, or maybe 1948, depending.  Being part of "the people who were thrown into ovens" is not exactly something I would sign up for and does a huge disservice to many-faceted and deep intellectual and cultural tradition that Judaism has.

Oh, and I always thought a "merkin" was a pubic-hair wig.
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bountyhunter

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2005, 12:11:10 PM »
Quote from: Art Eatman
Rabbi, when you consider the attention span and the lack of any knowledge of history on the part of the Average Merkin*, at least the awareness of the Holocaust makes for less susceptibility to the BS of the Jew-haters...

Art
And it makes the sheeple less vulnerable to the lies spewed by the neo Nazis and such who still claim the holocaust never happened.

I say God bless Wiesenthal.  The man had some serious cajones and brought a lot of inhuman murderers to the hangman's rope.

matis

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« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2005, 05:45:24 PM »
"... for many Jews their identity as such begins in 1936 and ends in 1945, or maybe 1948, depending.  Being part of "the people who were thrown into ovens" is not exactly something I would sign up for and does a huge disservice to many-faceted and deep intellectual and cultural tradition that Judaism has."
_____________________________________________________________

Rabbi,

What you say is certainly true and this is what made up most of my own identity as a Jew for a long time.  I'm thankful that that's not all it remained.


I have since come to realize what a treasure my heritage is and my 17 yr old daughter (and her mother) have become Chassidic Jews.  Although I myself have not yet reached that stage, I cannot express the joy that this gives me.  At the very least this is my contribution to the continuity of the Jewish people.


I believe you and I both understand that ONLY the progeny of Orthodox or Chassidic Jews remain Jewish.  I was shocked to see a study of 200 each of secular, Reform, Conservative, Orthdox and Chassidic Jews from 100 years ago.  In each of the first three groups only 3, 4 up to 12 of the 200 in each group studied remained Jewish today.  The Orthodox Jews OTH grew to 800 and of the Chassidic Jews 200 became 5000 in 100 years.  For me that said it all.  What use was my (secular) Jewish pride in the face of such a statistic?

However, my feelings about the holocaust and its cost to those who had remained in Europe of the families of my mother and father -- those feelings are what kept me fiercely, proudly, stubbornly Jewish long enough to finally have contact with real Judaism and to realize what my inheritance was and that I could at last come home.



So my point is, even a stunted or "bagels and lox" Jewishness can serve to keep one around long enough to discover the real thing.



However I am NOT defending those Jews who honor the commandment, "...and you shall teach it to your children...." by subsituting teachings about "social justice" -- by which they mean left-liberal clap-trap.




Sometime in the early nineties, Weisenthal came to my town to speak and I came up aftwards to say a few words to him.  I had read about him and felt a profound respect and affection for him.  When I reached him, however, words failed me and all I could do was look into his eyes and shake his hand.


Afterwards, thinking about the way he responded, I got the feeling that he must have encountered this kind of reaction before.

matis
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Standing Wolf

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2005, 06:47:53 PM »
Well, yeah, but it couldn't happen here.
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Antibubba

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« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2005, 09:23:26 PM »
Matis, although I do understand your feelings about a Chasid a more authentic Jew than someone like myself, I resent your saying it.

When I was in seventh grade, I was sent to the local Hillel.  The arrogant, demeaning, Holier-than-thou-can-ever-be attitude of the Chasids and ultra-orthodox who ran the place almost drove me away forever.  It certainly drove away my brother; I can still hear the rage in his voice, and he only attended for two years to my three.  It takes a special kind of attitude to make a Jew despise other Jews, but they had it.  Of course, there were other kids whose families were not very religious, but as most of them were wealthy, and supported the school financially, so much more was forgiven.

I might have more respect for the Black Hats if they at least defended Israel, but when the State formed, they got themselves exempted from the Army.  I suppose that's only right, since most of them refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the existence of Israel, since it was not founded by G-d and Moshiach, but by mere men.  

I have considered aliyah, a few times, and I would drop everything and go over to defend our people if our enemies were massing on the border.  Would your Chasids stop davvening long enough to protect their neighbors?

If I sound bitter, I am.  I despise hypocrisy and religious arrogance, and I am ashamed when I see it in other Jews.
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2005, 04:42:42 AM »
Hmm, two interesting and widely divergent posts, one by antiBubba and one by Matis.  In true Talmudic fashion maybe there is a synthesis to show there is no contradiction at all.
Antibubba's experience (and I am sure this is so as I have heard the same story repeated numerous times from numerous people) was as big a turn off as one can have.  Arrogance, hypocrisy, disrespectful behavior--who would want to be part of that?  Yet is that something endemic to Judaism itself or is that reflection of character flaws of the individuals involved?  Do we judge Judaism (or any religion or movement) based on the behavior of individuals or based on the doctrines and teachings of that faith?  I think everyone would agree the latter.
Matis' experience is quite different.  I am sure it is so as I have heard this story many times from many different people too.  He looks at what might be ultimate test of any movement or philosophy: the test of time.  He is right, traditional (Orthodox) Judaism passes this test with flying colors.  It is very succesful at passing on its values to the next generation (I would argue fundamentalist Christianity is equally succesful).  It therefore passes "the test of time" far better than its liberal counterparts.  And interestingly, Matis no doubt encounters the same observant people as Antibubba encountered and since he is maybe not so observant himself there is plenty of opportunity for others to belittle him, just as they did to Antibubba.  But he doesnt mention this even if it did happen.  Hmm.
Perhaps if Antibubba had encountered the same people as Matis has his expereince and outlook would have been totally different.  It is a lesson for those of us "on the inside" even more than those "on the outside" of observance.
Antibubba, I am sorry for your experience.  And I dont know what I could say to make it better.  But I hope the passing of years has given you perspective to overlook the failings of others and instead look towards the essentials.
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2005, 04:47:21 AM »
Quote
I might have more respect for the Black Hats if they at least defended Israel, but when the State formed, they got themselves exempted from the Army.  I suppose that's only right, since most of them refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the existence of Israel, since it was not founded by G-d and Moshiach, but by mere men.
I wanted to address this separately.
There are many religious Jews (defined as those who keep Shabbos) in the Israeli army.  Many are chassidim or otherwise "black hats."  The issue of army service is a hot one, and not just in those circles.  Now, even those who formerly identified as religious Zionists are having second thoughts about army service since Gush Katif.  Also the issue of Zionism is a long standing one in Orthodox thought.  There are many strong, legitimate arguments against it and I feel it is a legitimate position within Judaism (and one I myself share).  So I have no issue with those who refuse Army service on those grounds.  Where I do have an issue is when those same people take money from the Israeli government for their institutions, or for their families.  Not all do.  The Satmar notably do not accept any funding from the Israeli government, and have their own endowment to support institutions.  But I feel one needs to be consistent about it.
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Art Eatman

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« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2005, 08:47:24 AM »
"But it should not take a horrible event to make people stop hating whole groups for no reason at all."

100% right.

I guess I'm lucky.  At age 15, I learned that a shonuff minority is a tall blond guy in downtown Manila, Hong Kong or Tokyo.  Those places aren't overloaded with Presbyterians, either.  Then add four years in the Army with all sorts of guys from everywhere, followed by four years in college in Florida with Jewish and Goy roomates.  

Hey, guess what?  People are people.  Most good, some bad.  Life is much, much simpler and easier if I judge others by behavior and leave it at that...

Smiley, Art
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Stickjockey

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R.I.P. Simon Wiesenthal (long)
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2005, 08:56:36 AM »
Wow. I was not expecting this; I was merely hoping to honor the passing of a man who dedicated his life to bringing true criminals to justice, not start a major discussion of religious differences. Thanks for keeping it (mostly) civil, and I would ask that it remain so.

BTW, according to dictionary.com:

Quote
mer·kin    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (mûrkn)
n. A pubic wig for women.
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bountyhunter

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« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2005, 09:14:02 AM »
WOW!  I would not have wanted to have this guy on my trail.....

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/20/obit.wiesenthal/index.html


"Wiesenthal is credited with helping to bring more than 1,100 Nazi war criminals to justice."




Nazi hunter Wiesenthal dead at 96
Holocaust survivor dedicated his life to fighting prejudice

Tuesday, September 20, 2005; Posted: 6:43 p.m. EDT (22:43 GMT)

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Simon Wiesenthal, the Holocaust survivor who helped track down Nazi war criminals following World War II and spent the later decades of his life fighting anti-Semitism and prejudice, died Tuesday. He was 96.

A statement on the Simon Wiesenthal Center Web site said he died early Tuesday in Vienna, Austria.

With more than 6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust, including 89 members of his own family, Wiesenthal felt driven to track down those involved in the atrocities. (Watch story of man dedicated to never letting world forget -- 1:48)

In his book "Justice, Not Vengeance," Wiesenthal wrote: "Survival is a privilege which entails obligations. I am forever asking myself what I can do for those who have not survived.

"The answer I have found for myself (and which need not necessarily be the answer for every survivor) is: I want to be their mouthpiece, I want to keep their memory alive, to make sure the dead live on in that memory."

Wiesenthal is credited with helping to bring more than 1,100 Nazi war criminals to justice.

"Simon Wiesenthal was the conscience of the Holocaust," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.

"When the Holocaust ended in 1945 and the whole world went home to forget, he alone remained behind to remember. He did not forget," Hier said.

"He became the permanent representative of the victims, determined to bring the perpetrators of history's greatest crime to justice.

"There was no press conference and no president or prime minister or world leader announced his appointment. He just took the job. It was a job no one else wanted.

"The task was overwhelming. The cause had few friends. The Allies were already focused on the Cold War, the survivors were rebuilding their shattered lives and Simon Wiesenthal was all alone, combining the role of both prosecutor and detective at the same time.

"His greatest accomplishment was that he showed the world what one person determined to do the right thing can accomplish," Hier said.

Wiesenthal was held in a number of concentration camps during World War II and was freed from Mauthausen in Austria by American troops on May 5, 1945. At the time, he weighed less than 100 pounds, according to his biography.

He said he quickly realized "there is no freedom without justice," and decided to dedicate "a few years" to seeking justice. "It became decades."

Art Eatman

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« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2005, 09:39:00 AM »
Yeah, he was one helluva man.  What's amazing is how much he got accomplished for the relatively small amount of money, compared to, say, the FBI.  

I always figured you could walk into a fancy restaurant in Buenos Aires or in Bolivia and yell, "Simon Wiesenthal" and half the customers would flop over with heart attacks.

Art
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matis

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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2005, 09:07:28 PM »
Matis, although I do understand your feelings about a Chasid a more authentic Jew than someone like myself, I resent your saying it.
________________________________________________________________

Antibubba,
The last thing I want is to post in such a way as to push you away.  I wish I were eloquent enough to be able to communicate to you what I'm trying, so clumsily, to say.

I don't consider any Jew more authentic than any other.  I DO, however, consider Orthodox Judaism, not only more authentic -- I consider it the only Judaism.  That is why it endures while the non-orthodox fall away.

So the question of authenticity does not address the Jew himself, but only his "brand" or lack of "Judaism".



__________________________________________________________________
I have considered aliyah, a few times, and I would drop everything and go over to defend our people if our enemies were massing on the border.
____________________________________________________________

In that sentiment you and I, Antibubba, are in complete agreement.

But as I wrote in my post above, what good is such feeling if it doesn't pass the test of time as The Rabbi wrote above?

If we feel so strongly about fighting for our people, why, much as it is necessary, ONLY with guns?  What about fighting the cultural acid that eats away at our Judaism until there is almost nothing left?

Personally, I have discovered that only Orthodox Judaism can ultimately "fight for our people" in the sense of enduring over millenia and against seemingly impossible odds.  Your life and my life are certainly important.  But our lives will pass in a flash.  So if the Jewish people are important to you, what about their survival after you and I are both gone?

Any brand of Judaism that fails the test of time is IMO inauthentic.



I completely sympathize with your bitterness over your early experiences at Hillel.  As The Rabbi wrote earlier, it's lucky you didn't become a Zoroastrian (you didn't, did you?  Just kidding.).


In my own case I grew up in Montreal in an apartment building where all 12 tenants were Jewish.  My father considered himself a Marxist and so we were the only non-observant (atheist) family.  (My father was a good man who meant well and I don't blame him in the slightest for believing as he did.  He gave me much and much of him lives on in me.)

Outside I took beatings for being Jewish.  "Dirty Jew" they called me.  At home I was scorned by my fellow Jews and called "goy" (gentile).  Kinda between a rock and a hard place.

My reaction was to develop a militant atheism.  My hobby became arguing with the religious, using what I then thought was impeccable logic and reason to chew them up and spit them out.  I enjoyed it and I got good at it.

So I can understand completely your bitterness.

Trouble is by remaining bitter you are cheating yourself, your loved ones and the Jewish people.   I know from personal experience and from what I know of assimilated Jews in the West, that most do not have the faintest clue what their heritage really is.

I hope you dont take that as condescending because that is the last thing I intend.


In poetry class I remember learning to take each word in apoem separately and to pull out its denotation, its many connotations and then to analyze how each word carried its weight in supporting the authors meaning.  I absolutely loved doing that, but I never again found that kind of thing.  Until much later in life when I began to learn about Judaism.

That is what they do in Yeshiva. That is what those who study Torah learn to do.

I used to feel so frustrated in college because when I found something, say a poet who spoke to ME, I would come home from the library with armfuls of books about him and learn everything I could about him.  Problem was the teacher didnt appreciate my doing this.  I wasnt following the program.  Matis, he would say, Youre still on Wordsworth?  The rest of us are already way past Blake.

And I was usually terribly lonesome for someone to tear into the stuff with me.  But everyone was too busy getting an education to really learn anything in depth.  Or so it seemed to me.

Then, decades later, I found out that in Orthodox chaider (for younger children) and in yeshiva (high school) that is EXACTLY what they do.  They pair up the kids, assign a page and direct them to tear into the material and then defend their individual understanding with each other.  They actually encourage them to ARGUE with each other about the material.  I was overjoyed to discover this!  What a marvelous way to learn!  Turns out that Jews have been doing this for thousands of years.  Who knew?

This is just one treasure I found that my heritage had waiting for me -- when I finally surfaced.  When after learning so much about so many topics and so many other people -- I finally began learning about who I was.  And although this method means so much to me, its actually a trivial discovery by comparison to the vast riches that await anybody who begins to learn Judaism.  And I havent even mentioned content yet.


Antibubba, I respectfully invite you to explicate my sentence above as I had learned to do with poetry: Most assimilated Jews in the west do not have even the faintest clue what their heritage really is.

Its just an ordinary sentence.  You can fight it, you can take offense at it.  But I honestly mean this with all my heart.  I honestly believe that if you simply explicate it  pull out every ounce of meaning you can find in it, fill a few pages of a notebook with your results, then with all respect to you -- you will never again be the same person.

And certainly not because of my sentence, but because of what it can lead you to.




To The Rabbi:
The Chassidim who treated me with so much loving patience are the Lubavitchers.  My poor rabbi, Yossie, suffered my arrogance and my ignorance for years.  And today, although I am a founding member of the Chabad shul here, I am still like the village idiot  except in my case I am the Chabad atheist (grin).

But one who now burns like a fire for what he found.


These people believe that in every Jew burns a Jewish soul  even if in some people, due to circumstances, it barely smolders.  I remember saying to Yossie, shortly after I met him, But if the Beit Hamikdash (the Temple) were standing today, then I would be stoned to death for my disbelief.

No, he replied, You are a prisoner of the Galut (diaspora) and cannot be blamed for the way you are.

And that is their core belief and that is what motivates them to send shluchim,  (emissaries of the Rebbe) everywhere, including the most unlikely corners of the world (would you believe Thailand?  How about Nepal?  Theyre there.).  To find lost Jews and bring them home (spiritually).  Their way is Chesed (kindness).  And did I ever test them!  But I was no match for them.

They are exactly opposite to the people Antibubba encountered at Hillel.  They judge no one, regardless of their level of knowledge or observance.  They accept everybody.  And their Shabbos table (Friday night) fed me for years, intellectually, and when I was ready, spiritually and boy -- can the Rebbitzin (Rabbis wife) cook!


Antibubba, please dont allow your bitterness at people with character defects from long ago in your past, to keep you from examining what Judaism really is.  After all, its your inheritance, too.  Why leave it on the table?  Why not at least examine whats yours, anyway?  Why go through life owning a treasure chest - without ever opening it?  Who knows, perhaps there is something inside you can use.

You want to defend your people?  So do I.  To defend them you must first find out who they really are.  And that's the beauty of Judaism.  By fighting for them, you fight for (or through to?) yourself.

With respect (I won't say affection 'cause I wouldn't want to embarrass anyone),

Matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

Antibubba

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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2005, 11:34:45 PM »
Matis, I believe strongly in Tikkun Olam, and the only way to do that is to be of the world, or at least to be in it.  I know that the Hillelites I knew were nowhere near the ideal, but sadly, I found that experience to be fairly typical.  And a large part of my experience had to do with these pious Jews "shunning" the world outside their own community.  They saw no irony in creating shtetls for themselves.  The cultural acid also eats from the inside.  I still run into people who don't know any Jews, who know next to nothing about Judaism-and I live in Sacramento.  And I know that none of them are likely to get to know one of the Chasids-because the Chasids will not mingle with goyim.

One of the highlights at Hillel was Talmudic study; the realization that every word of the Tanach had been analyzed and held up and examined over the centuries; of commentaries that studied previous commentary; of the Law as living.  Even the disdain of my ignorance that some of the rebbes who taught the subject showered on me(and, yes, I do know how unJewish that attitude is) did not diminish the joy of this most intricate jewel.  I'd like to study it again someday.  That someone could study twenty centuries of different takes on a single theme, and yet so utterly dismiss the World around them-it's alien to me.

I have to go back to Simon Weisenthal.  I don't remember hearing about his religiosity.  I've never heard about how devout he was, or that he davvened[i/] twice daily.  But is there anyone here who would say that he was not a good Jew?
***********

Rabbi, if I ever encounter two women fighting over a baby, I'll know who to send them to.  Smiley  Thank you.
If life gives you melons, you may be dyslexic.

The Rabbi

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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2005, 04:53:20 AM »
I have to say this has been one of the nicest, most heart warming threads I have read on the Net in some time.  Three people from very different backgrounds and very different places with a lot to disagree about nontheless finding sources of agreement and mutual respect and affection.  Mi k'amcha Yisroel?
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matis

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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2005, 07:05:06 AM »
"I have to go back to Simon Weisenthal.  I don't remember hearing about his religiosity.  I've never heard about how devout he was, or that he davvened[i/] twice daily.  But is there anyone here who would say that he was not a good Jew?"
______________________________________________________________________
Antibubba, I believe that Weisenthal was one of the very best.  And I'm certain that you are, as well.



"If either of you guys make it to Nashville you are both cordially invited to stay with me and continue the conversation over some good schnapps."
_______________________________________________________________
Rabbi, I have never been to Nashville, but I hear you have some good country music.  Your invitation makes it more likely that I will find my way there.  When I do, be sure that I'll take you up on your invitation.

matis
Si vis pacem; para bellum.

SalukiFan

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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2005, 07:19:04 AM »
Speaking of Wiesenthal, if you've never read his book The Sunflower: On the Possibilities and Limits of Forgiveness you might want to check it out.  I read it a couple of years ago and it's a fascinating book.

It's a true story of how, when working in a hospital as a concentration camp slave laborer, a dying Nazi asks Weisenthal forgiveness for his crimes against the Jews.  The book goes on to describe Weisenthal's reaction and then has a section where thinkers and theologians from the Dalai Lama to Primo Levi discuss whether or not Wiesenthal should have forgiven the soldier or if it is even possible to forgive genocide.


Does he forgive the soldier?  You'll have to read it to find out.

Antibubba

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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2005, 08:30:49 PM »
If I make it to Nashville, Rabbi, I'll call ahead.

Nashville-isn't that the home of the Grand Ole Mikvah?
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The Rabbi

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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2005, 05:05:08 AM »
Quote from: Antibubba
If I make it to Nashville, Rabbi, I'll call ahead.

Nashville-isn't that the home of the Grand Ole Mikvah?
True story,

In the old days (prior to 1960) the Orthodox synagogue was located downtown next door to the Ryman Auditorium, home of the Grand Ole Opry.  The often had (and still do) non Jews visiting to see what its like etc.
One Yom Kippur the cantor was doing Neilah (the dramatic prayer at the very end of Yom Kippur).  Some guy walks in.  The ushers hand him a prayer book and a yarmulke and show him to a seat.  He sits through it, about 30 minutes or so.
Afterwards he goes up to one of the ushers and says, that feller you got singing up there is pretty good.  But he aint near as good as Roy Acuff!
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