Gas goin' up again?

[Lt. G]

I know the folks on the gulf coast/Texas are fixin' to get slammed. But do you think the media has to drum up panic about the gas shortage,(to be), And send the sheep in a tizzy that they have to fill up their tanks, RIGHT NOW!!! ?

Also I really like that they are "predicting" a gallon of gas will be $4 to $5. very shortly. I'm glad somebody is going to be getting rich over this.

Sorry to sound bitter, but what happened to honesty and being decent to one another?

[jefnvk]

Yeah, I don't see the logic in predicting $5 gas.  I can see no reason other than to cause problems, give people somethign to complain about.

Let's see what the hurricane does before complaining what the prices might be.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

I know the folks on the gulf coast/Texas are fixin' to get slammed. But do you think the media has to drum up panic about the gas shortage,(to be), And send the sheep in a tizzy that they have to fill up their tanks, RIGHT NOW!!! ?

Also I really like that they are "predicting" a gallon of gas will be $4 to $5. very shortly. I'm glad somebody is going to be getting rich over this.

Sorry to sound bitter, but what happened to honesty and being decent to one another?

Nobody is going to get rich over this (except OPEC - they'll make a killing).  The extra money we pay at the pump doesn't stay in the pockets of the domestic gasoline industry.  

Take a moment to consider the situation, from the perspective of a big oil company:
You'll have to evacuate all of the personel from all of your facilities in the gulf and in Texas (Expensive)
You'll lose the usage of all of your infrastructure until the weather clears and you can get your people back to work (Expensive)
You'll hafta pay the repair bill for all the damage caused by the massive hurricane (Expensive)
Your distribution network will be a logistical mess for weeks, and you'll hafta pay to fix things back up (Expensive)

Can you see why they must increase prices substantially just to break even?

On top of that, demand for your product spikes as consumers everywhere rush to fill up their tanks.  Basic supply and demand: when demand increases so does price.

It's no wonder that gasoline prices are expected to go up.  If anything, we should be thankful they don't go up any more than they do.

There's nothing indecent or dishonest about having to charge more to cover the additional costs of bringing your product to market.  And there's nothing indecent about the media making a reasonable prediction.  

Exploiting emotion by sending the sheep into a tizzy or making wild allegations of price fixing/gouging is definitly low, though

[TarpleyG]

You'll have to evacuate all of the personel from all of your facilities in the gulf and in Texas (Expensive)
You'll lose the usage of all of your infrastructure until the weather clears and you can get your people back to work (Expensive)
You'll hafta pay the repair bill for all the damage caused by the massive hurricane (Expensive)
Your distribution network will be a logistical mess for weeks, and you'll hafta pay to fix things back up (Expensive)

Uh huh...and after it's all over the fatcat oil execs will get big fat bonus checks for a "job well done" or some such nonsense.  I work in a large corporation and believe me, the guys on the top floor ALWAYS get rich.  Good for them I guess but to pretend it won't happen is like sticking your head in the sand.

Greg

[LadySmith]

What really bugs me is the unholy glee that some in the media get about the rising gas prices; the type who openly hope that it will force everyone out of their evil SUVs. They have no sympathy for commuters, folks who can't afford to live near where they work, and those who are one paycheck away from homelessness. What happens when it becomes more expensive to get to work than to actually work? They love to point out that people pay much more for gas in places in other countries, as if we care (we're not there), and how we happily spend so much more for a gallon of bottled water. With water, we can choose a cheaper brand, drink from the tap or purify what's in the wild. With gas, we're pretty much screwed.

[cfabe]

They have no sympathy for commuters, folks who can't afford to live near where they work, and those who are one paycheck away from homelessness.

I'm one of the ones that has no, or very little, sympathy for those who claim that the gas price increase is putting them in dire financial straits. That gas prices are going up is not a surprise to anyone; it's been comming knowledge for at least two years. This should be plenty of time to adjust to compensate for this. If you are running your finances so tight that a gradual increase is gas prices or a short term spike beacuse of a natural disaster is going to put you into debt, then it was bound to happen anyway. Sound financial planning is also planning to have enough to get you through hard times or setbacks, and adjusting as situations change.

[garyk/nm]

Can you see why they must increase prices substantially just to break even?

Ever heard of a business loss? What about all of those multiple billions of dollars of profit they post every quarter? Couldn't that go toward offsetting the loss?
But, no, shareholders would scream! They are ENTITLED to that profit!

Sure, you can try to increase price to cover your losses, but at some point the consumers are going to say ENOUGH!
For my part, I'm going to put the price of my next fill-up ($60.00 at today's price) in to a bicycle purchase and bike to work.

[Paddy]

The extra money we pay at the pump doesn't stay in the pockets of the domestic gasoline industry.

Then why are they reporting record profits?

Take a moment to consider the situation, from the perspective of a big oil company:
You'll have to evacuate all of the personel from all of your facilities in the gulf and in Texas (Expensive)

A contingency accrual, already expensed in prior periods.  It now sits as a liability on the books.  When settled, it's just a balance sheet swap and does not affect profitability.

You'll lose the usage of all of your infrastructure until the weather clears and you can get your people back to work (Expensive)

You're also not depleting/selling your inventory, so you have no 'cost of goods sold'.

You'll hafta pay the repair bill for all the damage caused by the massive hurricane (Expensive)
Your distribution network will be a logistical mess for weeks, and you'll hafta pay to fix things back up (Expensive)

Most of that will be covered by insurance.

None of those are reasons for short term price increases.

[El Tejon]

Let's hope so!  Too many of you people out on my roads.

Walk, bike, run, whatever, just get out of my way.  That is all.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Wow, it's no better here than on THR.  Everybody hates the oil industry.  Everybody loves to feel like a victim of the fatcat oil executives and stockholders.

For a bunch of independent, freedom minded folks, there seems to be an awful lot of desire to nationalize the oil industry.

'Cause that's essentially what you're saying, right?  The oil companies have no right to set the price of the product they produce and market.  It's indecent for them to earn any money for doing a difficult job under difficult circumstances.  How dare those execs be in busines for their own sakes, and not for the benefit of "society" (whatever the heck that is).

Your percieved "need" for gasoline somehow justifies your desires to control the oil industry.  You "need" to drive to work everyday, therefore it's your right to tell that station owner what he's allowed to charge you for a gallon of gas.



Yeah well, I need a new roof on my house.  Maybe I should go down to the local builders' supply and explain to them how my need justifies me taking whatever materials I want.  I'll pay for it, but I'll pay whatever price I think is fair.  And if they disagree, well they're just being greedy and indecent and trying to profit from the suffering of others, right?.

[charby]

+1 for headless tommy gunner

[cfabe]

+2 for HTG

Everyone is bitching and whining about gas prices, but amazingly you still see them all filling up at the pumps for 3.50 a gallon. If you think a product is too expensive, don't buy it. If you wish it were cheaper, but buy it at current market price anyway because your percieved need or desire for it justifies the expense, then it's not too expensive.

[Paddy]

Your percieved "need" for gasoline somehow justifies your desires to control the oil industry.  You "need" to drive to work everyday, therefore it's your right to tell that station owner what he's allowed to charge you for a gallon of gas.

No.  I just pointed out that your 'reasons' for steep price increases don't have merit.  Now if you want to say the increases are a result of 'supply vs. demand', or 'that's what the market will bear', you'd be a lot closer to the truth.  The oil companies are not 'evil', and AFAIK nobody said they were.  Any corporate entity with a captive audience will exploit the situation to the max.  That's the American way, isn't it?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

My reasons for increases have a lot more merit than you're willing to admit.  Two Cat 5 hurricanes generally aren't covered by insurance or routine planning, nor are long term shutdowns.  And I did say that supply and demand was a central reason for the increases...  But I'm not much interested in a point by point argument here.  



I hope the oil execs and fatcat capitalist stockholders make a killing.  They perform a vital service for the nation, and they deserve to be rewarded for it.  

If gas is too expensive for you, then start driving less.  Sell that Suburban and buy a used Honda or a Yamaha motorcycle.  Invest the difference in Exxon Mobile stock, and share in the profits from the other poor saps who were too stupid to do the same thing.

[matis]

+3 for HTG.


It will occasionally rain on your parade.

That's what they make umbrellas for, isn't it?

Didn't you put some $$ away for a rainy day?

I saw a sign on someone's wall: "Your lack of planning does NOT comprise an emergency for me."


When you were little, didn't they teach you the story of the grasshopper and the ants?


As the Boy Scouts teach their kids, BE PREPARED.  (I'll bet that's also part the reason for hating the boy scouts that just isn't mentioned.)

Sorry, but the whining gets to me.

matis

[Paddy]

If gas is too expensive for you, then start driving less.  Sell that Suburban and buy a used Honda or a Yamaha motorcycle.  Invest the difference in Exxon Mobile stock, and share in the profits from the other poor saps who were too stupid to do the same thing.

You presume too much.  This is one of my vehicles.  It consistently gets 40+mpg. If gasoline were to get as high as $6,$7,$8 a gallon, it would affect me not at all.

And, FWIW, part of my mutual funds are in oil stocks.

You seem to be particularly sensitive to any criticism of high gasoline prices.  I can't believe you're so myopic as to not understand the negative effect that has on the entire economy.  It isn't just about 'poor people vs. big oil' as you portray.  That's a simplistic one dimensional concept that only serves as pap for the Democrat's constituency. That's the same group who will be calling for 'nationalization' of the oil industry unless that same industry gets their greed under control.  That's all I'm sayin'.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Sorry RileyMc, I didn't mean to sound like I took offense to anything you said.  Most of my remarks weren't directed at you personally.  I apologize for perhaps getting a little too emotional




So here's the deal:

People bitching about high gas prices is OK with me.  Nobody likes it when prices go up, misself included.

But I'm seeing a very disturbing trend.  Many people aren't content to gripe about the high prices.  They hafta take it to a whole new level, one that has alarming political repercussions.

The usual argument goes somthing like this:   "I NEED to drive, therefore I deserve XYZ in order to get my gas at unreasonably low prices."  'XYZ' is always some sort of socialist-type meddling, usually involving the government discriminently "redistributing" assets that rightfully belong to one group private citizens.

The idea that your need somehow grants you entitlement seems unspeakably WRONG to me.  This idea is the pivotal first step towards an America that welcomes communism.  The fact that nobody else is willing to stand up and say "no, this is NOT right, this is NOT ok" is frightening to me.




There are other common arguments, all of which have socialist connotations.  The most often repeated are:

"Gas prices affect the whole economy, therefore the government needs to do something to keep them in line."  There are a thousand and one factors that affect the whole economy.  Taxes, employment laws, and interest rates are all FAR more influential than oil prices, but you never hear these folks clamoring for the government to improve those factors.

"It's immoral for oil executives and stockholders to make a profit from something terrible like a hurricane."  It's unfortunate that people are impacted by Mother Nature, but it ain't the oil companies' fault.  We ALL have a right and an obligation to do our best, even in the bad times.  (Especially in the bad times).  If it were wrong to succeed when others suffer, then nobody would ever succeed.

"The oil companies will use any excuse they can to make us all pay more."  BS.  Gas costs more during a disaster because gas is worth more during a disaster.  TANSTAAFL.

"They just want to line their own pockets."  Of course they do!  That's the usual reason for anyone to go into business, and there's nothing improper about it.

"But the oil companies don't really need to charge that much."  Not true, but these folks generally don't know enough about industry to know they're wrong.  Neither do most of the people listening to them.

"But the oil companies are making record profits!"  There's nothing sinister about record profits.  Record profits are common and expected (and nearly innescapable) in any growing company. Besides, profit is a GOOD thing.




Blech.  That's enough ranting for one night.  Bottom line is that it really bothers me to hear intelligent, freedom minded folks denigrating the oil industry and subtlely advocating socialism.  I figure someone ought to voice opposition.

Forgive me if I reacted a little too harshly.

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

My family's income for many years was sourced from oil royalties.  We have oil underneath the family farm. It's a fortunate accident of both property ownership and birth.  It's not as much as it used to be, but it's still significant.  BFD.

In my area, gas prices went up .20 a gallon in 12 hours as stations ran out of inventory Thursday. I saw a couple of them did get tankers in over the weekend, but there are still some majors that are out of everything except diesel.  I haven't seen prices jump so in say, 2 weeks when Katrina hit the gulf coast.

As for me, I filled up my *empty* tank Thursday morning before they started running dry.  Until I start working from home again, I'm going to have to buy gas to get to and from work.  I make a pretty decent living fixing problems on behalf of Big Blue for folks who brainlock and screw up their computers while doing silly things to them.  I'm not too terribly concerned how much it costs for fuel for me, but I feel for the OTR independents and folks who *have* to drive long distances...and farmers.   I figure if Blue loves the job I do, I'll work from home if it gets too 'oppressive' in their eyes.


Regards,
Rabbit.

[Art Eatman]

I get hacked at the phrasing of "obscene" profits, and even more so at the lack of understanding of the difference between gross dollar profit and profit as a percentage of sales.  

In general, a restaurant chain such as McDonald's profits more, per share of stock, than do the oil companies on a year-over-year basis.  Most folks neither know nor care, obviously.

Newspaper phrasing--or the lack of useful information on Page 1--also chaps me:  "Oil profits double!" is the headline.  Yeah, well, if you make one dollar on a billion dollars in sales, that's a profit.  If you then sell a billion bucks' worth and make $2, "Profits double!"    I note that oil ocmpanies, right now, are profiting around seven to nine percent on sales, which is indeed a record.  Who had sympathy for them during the years of 3% or 5%?

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal is free.  It doesn't even cost money to look at the P/E ratios of corporation, to find out just who makes how much profit in terms of percentage.

And as a country, we're spoiled.  We've had 40 years of severe loss of buying power of the dollar.  At around three bucks a gallon, we're paying pretty much the same price in terms of buying power as we were in the early 1970s.

Hey, I like cheap gasoline, also, but I don't expect it as a Constitutional Right...

Art

[thorn]

RELIEF- the cane was weaker than expected, and prices have fallen.
diesel is down 20 cents over the last 10 days thank God.