Author Topic: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.  (Read 10494 times)

BridgeWalker

  • Guest
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2007, 09:15:31 PM »
The trouble with catastrophic plans, for me at least, is that they have never worked out financially.  Still several hundreds dollars, still a six or eight thousand dollar deductible, and then still only 70 or 80% coverage. 

Figure in not working because of said catastrophe, and  nope, no possibility of it working out.

As for paying for care?  Yep.  Done it: one pregnancy, one baby $1800.  That doesn't work as well for things requirig hospitalization.  They will still charge you ten bucks for that aspirin you didn't even take. 

geronimotwo

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,796
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2007, 03:48:18 AM »
the really horrible part of the situation is that if the hospital accepted the same payment from the consumer as what they accept from hmo's and medicare/aid, then i wouldn't need insurance for my family in the first place (as i could afford to pay it myself).
make the world idiot proof.....and you will have a world full of idiots. -g2

mfree

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,637
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2007, 04:17:26 AM »
If we have to consign ourselves to socialized medicine (and don't blow smoke up my ass, that's what it is), at least do or administrate it on a state level instead of federal. It's much easier to command and control a small bureaucracy than a gigantic one, and folks have MUCH more power over their government at the state level than the federal.


Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2007, 06:28:34 AM »
I worked for a large hospital system for several years, and can tell you that a majority of healthcare providers, especially hospitals, depend on Medicare for an income stream.  The single largest issue is with different reimbursement rates for different areas.

Just because they depend upon it doesn't mean that it isn't an inefficient boondoggle, not to mention that with increased effciency the hospitals could probably find alternate revenue streams.

The trick with medicare is if you ask the question 'who does it cover', the answer is mostly the retired and disabled.  Who needs the most medical care?  The retired and disabled.

Quote from: RileyMC
Fraud is on the part of the 'healthcare providers'.  You know, those good doctors and hospitals that care so much about their patients?  It has nothing to with the Medicare system. I challenge you to name a system as big as Medicare without any 'fraud or mismanagement'.  As far as 'huge paperwork', that is no longer the case thanks to the DRG system and electronic billing.

This came up on another forum, and I did a quick check.  Approximately 11% of medicare payments are fraudulent.  It happens everywhere.  Sure, other companies will have fraud, waste and abuse.  But 11%?  This doesn't even include waste.

Quote from: wooderson
"Health insurance," as commonly referred to, is actually 'health service,' covering your preventive care, routine checkups, prescriptions, etc..

Agreed, though the 'High deductable' plans which combine what's essentially a savings account with insurance to cover if you exceed that level is close.

Quote
It is entirely possible for individuals to purchase affordable 'health insurance' that only covers hospitalization and major health issues - but most people find this useless, given that it's the cost of routine healthcare/specialists and drugs they feel to be prohibitive.

I've read of a number of cases where if it wasn't for the fighting between insurance companies and providers, care would be substantially cheaper.

For example, when my brother broke his arm he didn't have insurance.  Still, they charged him half of what they would have charged an insurance company for paying cash upfront for the X-ray.

Years ago they had a tale of a GP who, fed up with life working in a clinic, closed shop and started working out of her home with a part time nurse.  She charged for kids by the pound, kept minimal records, etc...

Many people with health plans would take their kids to her when they had minor illnesses/injuries because her basic fee was below their copay.

And she was making 2/3rds the money with 1/2 the work.

Quote from: shootinstudent
I don't know any Aussie, for example, who dreams of having American style healthcare.  No Singaporeans either-indeed, healthcare is at least arguably more accessible (and just as good) in Thailand than in the USA.  It's a third world country that somehow manages to secure and provide medicine as advanced as ours at a fraction of the cost.

Which do you think is more likely, Singapore/Australia style coverage, or the at least semi-broken mess that's Britain's and Canada's system?

Our problem is that we've managed to take the worst of both worlds of medical healthcare.  We're neither free market or government single-payer.  Instead we have the government sticking it's fingers(and money) into everything while the commercial operators try to work around it.  Oh, and if you lose your job you'll eventually lose coverage as well(even assuming you have enough money to keep paying for coverage).  At least through that company.  You get the health insurance your company chooses, not you.  At least for the majority of americans.

Quote from: wooderson
Unless that cold is bronchitis, which becomes pneumonia, which becomes a $3000 ER trip (the basic cost for walking through the door) that gets paid by you, your insurance (if it's the bottom of the barrel kind - and you hope they pick up the tab) or when you can't pay and your insurance can't pay... gets eaten by the hospital. (Now, if the argument then is that the hospital isn't really eating $3, that its actual costs are much lower, that circles around into the wisdom of a profit-oriented health system...)

Of you don't get an appointment to see your PCM until six months in the future because all appointments are full until then, and you end up in the ER anyways.

There are often issues with government healthcare, some of which is denial of care to needy people, sometimes until they don't need it anymore because they're dead.

Google medical waiting lists in the UK/Canada.

With 'Doc in a Box' type clinics I've seen outright cash charges around $40 for a 'cold/strep/pnemonia' assesment visit.  Combine that with a high deductible insurance plan combined with a tax-advantaged health savings account where you just swipe your card(automatically tracks health care purchases) to pay for care.

Quote
The trouble with catastrophic plans, for me at least, is that they have never worked out financially.  Still several hundreds dollars, still a six or eight thousand dollar deductible, and then still only 70 or 80% coverage.

Then you need to shop around a bit more.  My dad's plan was 100% after the deductible was met.  And that was an annual deductible, not per visit/incident.

Quote from: geronimotwo
the really horrible part of the situation is that if the hospital accepted the same payment from the consumer as what they accept from hmo's and medicare/aid, then i wouldn't need insurance for my family in the first place (as i could afford to pay it myself).

They're trying to make up for the uninsured who don't pay.  Try negotiating up front(if possible).  Either that or stay out of the large hospitals(admin nightmares) in favor of smaller clinics.

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2007, 07:34:18 AM »
Quote
Of you don't get an appointment to see your PCM until six months in the future because all appointments are full until then, and you end up in the ER anyways.
If this were true, it would be borne out in medical costs or quality of care. But it's not.

Quote
With 'Doc in a Box' type clinics I've seen outright cash charges around $40 for a 'cold/strep/pnemonia' assesment visit.  Combine that with a high deductible insurance plan combined with a tax-advantaged health savings account where you just swipe your card(automatically tracks health care purchases) to pay for care.
I'm referring specifically to Doc in a Box clinics, private practices run higher - there's not one DIAB in North Texas, which is a low cost of living area - that you see a doctor for less than $100 without a co-pay. The last time I went in one (for a GP to look at my eye (scratched the cornea, couldn't wait for my free university clinic to see me), flush it and prescribe me some painkillers (lovely, lovely painkillers) was $130.


"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2007, 08:34:52 AM »
Every complaint here can be pointed out that it is caused by .gov interference/restrictions/regulations.

Again the problem is the government interference, not the "evil CEO's" and their salaries.   That's  just socialist class envy.

Again if we got .gov out the heatlhcare business, insurance companies woudl be free to develop and tailor products to meet their customers needs, much like they have with car insurance. Coverting to single payer or universal will just lock-in the current ineffiencies.  As it stands now, I can only choose between a "High" deductible plan or a "Low" deductible.   When I get my homeowners or car insurance, I can choose to get just "basic" coverage, but then I can choose to add anywhere from 15-30 different options to my policies.  Things like water back-up, replacement cost coverage, etc..... and as I pointed out in my OP, the car insurance companies are offering customers a variety of coverages and features to attract and retain their customers (the greedy bastards  rolleyes).

Again the free market will create solutions to the problem, meeting their customers needs.  Socialization of medicine will make the bad parts worse and the good parts bad.

Free markets find individual solutions to individual problems.  Governments force a single solution to fit everyones problem. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2007, 09:04:56 AM »
Quote
Every complaint here can be pointed out that it is caused by .gov interference/restrictions/regulations.
If you're ideologically predisposed, sure.

Every complaint in the history of manking can be blamed on '.gov' if you're feeling up to it. My shoulder hurts today, must have been that nasty government making me, uh, do something. I dunno what, but I'm sure it's because of regulation.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2007, 09:33:06 AM »
There are three things needed to end the "health care crisis."

1) Get gov't out of the business.  The basic issue is that people using healthcare and people paying for healthcare are not the same.  Each state imposes mandates on insurers, driving up costs in that state.  And you aren't free to shop across state lines.
2) End deductibility of health insurance costs to employers.  Employers could pay their employees more to cover it, gov't could tax people less so they could afford it.
3) Cap malpractice damages.

In all the theme is making people responsible for their own health.  If people ate approrpriately, quit smoking, drank moderately and exercised there wouldn't be a health care crisis.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

Glock Glockler

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2007, 09:47:22 AM »
Riley,

Why is it that I can buy a much better DVD player now than I could have 8yrs ago at a fraction of the price, yet healthcare costs more and more for less?

I can't think of a sector of the economy where the govt is less involved than tech. and I also cannot think of one it is more involved than healthcare. 

K Frame

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 44,403
  • I Am Inimical
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2007, 09:57:59 AM »
Hum...

I wonder if the solution might be to simply kill everyone...
Carbon Monoxide, sucking the life out of idiots, 'tards, and fools since man tamed fire.

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2007, 09:58:53 AM »
Quote
Why is it that I can buy a much better DVD player now than I could have 8yrs ago at a fraction of the price, yet healthcare costs more and more for less?
Because DVD technology matured. A good Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player will cost you... exactly what a good DVD player cost you in 1999. Probably more, actually.

Healthcare costs haven't - and don't - mature in the same way at the same rate.

Yeesh.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2007, 09:59:34 AM »
"Why doesn't this apple cost just as much as this orange, huh? THE GOVERNMENT."
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Glock Glockler

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 182
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2007, 10:09:21 AM »
Because DVD technology matured. A good Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player will cost you... exactly what a good DVD player cost you in 1999. Probably more, actually.

Healthcare costs haven't - and don't - mature in the same way at the same rate.

Yeesh.


First off, I can get a much wider selection of DVD players for a lot less than they were years ago, I got a good one at Walmart for $35 a few months ago.  Keep in mind that inflation has taken place and the change is even more dramatic.

That being the case, why can't improved technology lower healthcare costs?

If you got the govt out of the healthcare business you'd see healthcare being delived more and more efficiently to the market, just like any other industry when market forces are allowed to do their thing. 

RadioFreeSeaLab

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,200
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2007, 10:13:08 AM »
There are three things needed to end the "health care crisis."

1) Get gov't out of the business.  The basic issue is that people using healthcare and people paying for healthcare are not the same.  Each state imposes mandates on insurers, driving up costs in that state.  And you aren't free to shop across state lines.
2) End deductibility of health insurance costs to employers.  Employers could pay their employees more to cover it, gov't could tax people less so they could afford it.
3) Cap malpractice damages.

In all the theme is making people responsible for their own health.  If people ate approrpriately, quit smoking, drank moderately and exercised there wouldn't be a health care crisis.

Damn. Right.

Although Mike's idea of killing everyone would be my close second choice.

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2007, 10:52:16 AM »
For now the system is not oriented toward the pay it yourself customers.  I'm self insured and I actively shop for my medical care.  Talk to a prospective doctor's office and you quickly see a fundamental mindset which is suspicious of self-pay patients. 

We can spin all kinds of free market tales about the superiority of a free market approach to health care but it is largely irrelevant.  We have exactly the system our handlers want us to have.  And we are about to go the full monty on national health care.  Major business is tired of paying the costs of healthcare and they are about to strike an alliance with government to nationalize health care.  Why?  Because it is a cost that can be shed simply by relocating to another country.  Look for the big legacy companies (GM, Ford, GE, etc) to crawl into bed with our elected statists to off load medical costs onto the taxpayer. 
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

The Rabbi

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,435
  • "Ahh, Jeez. Not this sh*t again!"
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2007, 11:02:23 AM »
There are three things needed to end the "health care crisis."

1) Get gov't out of the business.  The basic issue is that people using healthcare and people paying for healthcare are not the same.  Each state imposes mandates on insurers, driving up costs in that state.  And you aren't free to shop across state lines.
2) End deductibility of health insurance costs to employers.  Employers could pay their employees more to cover it, gov't could tax people less so they could afford it.
3) Cap malpractice damages.

In all the theme is making people responsible for their own health.  If people ate approrpriately, quit smoking, drank moderately and exercised there wouldn't be a health care crisis.

Damn. Right.

Although Mike's idea of killing everyone would be my close second choice.

Well, it does have the virtue of simplicity.
Fight state-sponsored Islamic terrorism: Bomb France now!

Vote Libertarian: It Not Like It Matters Anyway.

wooderson

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,399
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2007, 11:06:39 AM »
Quote
First off, I can get a much wider selection of DVD players for a lot less than they were years ago, I got a good one at Walmart for $35 a few months ago.  Keep in mind that inflation has taken place and the change is even more dramatic.
Yeah, I kind of answered that.

Quote
That being the case, why can't improved technology lower healthcare costs?
Drug patents, for one, between the length of patent exclusivity and patent holders are less apt to license technology (since a drug, for the most part isn't part of a functioning whole, as with electronic components, but an ends to itself). You're buying the 'generic' DVD player today - if you could buy a generic prescription drug eight years after the first one hits the market, how would that effect health expenditures?

Doctors are a rather large expense in healthcare - and so far as I know, we've yet to find a way to manufacture them faster and cheaper. If you've got a lead on some super-cheap robo-docs, I'd love to hear about them.

Begging the question - particularly in such an inane apples-to-oranges scenario - doesn't work. You can't just whine that "see, this ain't got no interference, and it works good!"  You've got to show how the two fields are similar. You've got to show exactly how 'government regulation' differs between the two fields, how the implentation of regulation on one might effect the other. Etc. etc. etc.
"The famously genial grin turned into a rictus of senile fury: I was looking at a cruel and stupid lizard."

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2007, 11:15:07 AM »
Quote
First off, I can get a much wider selection of DVD players for a lot less than they were years ago, I got a good one at Walmart for $35 a few months ago.  Keep in mind that inflation has taken place and the change is even more dramatic.

That being the case, why can't improved technology lower healthcare costs?

There's no basis for comparison. Your DVD player is made in China by slave labor.  Your healthcare is delivered personally and individually to you by people who spend a long time in school getting advanced degrees (many of those schools, btw, are government sponsored, as are many of the students).

'Improved technology' is always going to be extremely expensive because the private company that developed the technology did so for profit.  They want to get as much money as possible for their product.
That's the free market 'n all.............


Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2007, 12:19:17 PM »
Every complaint here can be pointed out that it is caused by .gov interference/restrictions/regulations.

Again the problem is the government interference, not the "evil CEO's" and their salaries.   That's  just socialist class envy.

Is this a complaint?  I haven't particularly heard about healthcare insurance CEOs making enough money to make the news out of any proportion of other CEOs.

Fact is that medical care is one of the most regulated industries in this country.  Depending on how you consider it, it might be the most.

I might not have pointed it out specifically enough, but I do favor a move away from 'health care plans' back to 'health care insurance'. 

Consumers not having to pay(visibly) for their healthcare is a large portion of the problem.

Wooderson, it might be that local regulations prohibit doc-in-a-box type businesses.  Still, $40 or $120 - it's still probably cheaper than what it costs through insurance

Come to think of it.  Figure the doc takes 10 minutes per patient, and works a 8 hour day seeing patients.  That's 48 patients a day, 240 a week, 12k a year(2 weeks vacation).

At $40 per visit, that's $480k a year.  Within reason, I think.  Figure $200k for the doc, $100k for the nurse, $80k for the receptionist, $100k for etc such as supplies, building rent, and profit.
At $120 per visit, that'd swell to 1.44M per year. 

But then, these figures are based on WAGs.  If they end up having half their clients not pay, for example, that'd quickly explain the extra expense.

Quote
(scratched the cornea, couldn't wait for my free university clinic to see me),

Ah, the wait was too long for the government funded* healthcare, so you went to private practice.

*Or maybe through your tuition, but universities are a lot like government.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2007, 12:21:49 PM »
Quote
technology' is always going to be extremely expensive because the private company that developed the technology did so for profit.  They want to get as much money as possible for their product.


Wow, a laptop that costs over $2000 a couple of years ago, can be had for less then $1000 today.  I guess, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc. is just gouging their customers.

Oh, and a huge expense with developing new healthcare technology (and Drugs) is the expense of complying with USFDA regs.  

Quote
Quote
Why is it that I can buy a much better DVD player now than I could have 8yrs ago at a fraction of the price, yet healthcare costs more and more for less?
Because DVD technology matured. A good Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player will cost you... exactly what a good DVD player cost you in 1999. Probably more, actually.
Healthcare costs haven't - and don't - mature in the same way at the same rate.

What ?!?!?!??!?  Yep, doctors are still performing blood letting and adjusting the humors.  In everyother industry technoolgy has managed to reduce costs or improve effieciency, yet only in healthcare does technology raise costs.  Yeah, right.

Name one country that has socialized medicine that has a better standard of care then the US.  (hint: when the rich and famous need healthcare where do they go ?)

Quote
I wonder if the solution might be to simply kill everyone...

Then we'd have a funeral/burial crisis that RileyMc, Wooderson, would want Hilliary/Obama/Edwards to solve.  
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2007, 12:42:54 PM »
Quote
Wow, a laptop that costs over $2000 a couple of years ago, can be had for less then $1000 today.  I guess, Dell, Gateway, IBM, etc. is just gouging their customers.

Apparently, you've never heard of 'economies of scale'. Those companies will sell a gazillion of those laptops.   Philips won't sell anywhere near that number of new 16 slice CT scanners, however.  And you can bet the CT scanner is not manufactured in some 3rd world sweatshop like your computer, either. 

Quote
Oh, and a huge expense with developing new healthcare technology (and Drugs) is the expense of complying with USFDA regs.

Right. Evil government is responsible for high drug prices and the HUGE multibillion dollar profits they generate. rolleyes   

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2007, 12:49:44 PM »
Can anyone point out to me where in the Constitution the .gov supposed to provide my healthcare ??   rolleyes

[/sarcasm]
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2007, 01:01:29 PM »
Quote
And you can bet the CT scanner is not manufactured in some 3rd world sweatshop like your computer, either. 


Wanna bet ??  I worked for a freight forwarder/customs broker up at O'Hare for several years.....  Our third biggest import commodity after Electronics (computers/cell-phones) and Clothing was Medical Equipment.   Used to drive the Customs agents crazy.  Anyone can say "That's a computer, or that's a Wool Sweater."  But once you get to medical equipment the Harmonized Tariff Schedule is not very informative....and we'd spend quite a bit of time scratching our heads and saying "Well they say it's this and they made it, so I'd bet that's what it is....."

Google "medical equipment manufacturers in china" or "india" or any other 3rd world sweatshop nation.
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2007, 01:19:38 PM »
The best solution is just to never get sick.

Cheat them money hungry docs and horsespittals out of a living  laugh
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Paddy

  • Guest
Re: Why healthcare is a "Crisis" and how to fix it.
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2007, 01:23:08 PM »
Quote
Wanna bet ??  I worked for a freight forwarder/customs broker up at O'Hare for several years..... 

Well, why didn't you say so earlier?  That right there qualifies you to make experienced, educated, objective assessments of the U.S. healthcare system.