Author Topic: Wind turbines kill bats  (Read 31584 times)

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Wind turbines kill bats
« on: August 25, 2008, 12:12:41 PM »
Hey, look, greenies, more unintended consequences! NUCLEAR plants don't kill bats, which are essential to keep mosquito populations down to control malaria and other diseases.

Quote
Wind Turbines Give Bats the "Bends," Study Finds
Brian Handwerk
for National Geographic News
August 25, 2008
 
Wind turbines can kill bats without touching them by causing a bends-like condition due to rapidly dropping air pressure, new research suggests.

Scientists aren't sure why, but bats are attracted to the turbines, which often stand 300 feet (90 meters) high and sport 200-foot (60-meter) blades.

The mammals' curiosity can result in lethal blows by the rotors, which spin at a rate of about 160 miles (260 kilometers) per hour.

But scientist Erin Baerwald and colleagues report that only about half of the bat corpses they found near Alberta, Canada, turbine bases showed any physical evidence of being hit by a blade.

A surprising 90 percent showed signs of internal hemorrhagingevidence of a drop in air pressure near the blades that causes fatal damage to the bats' lungs.

In humans, the condition is called the bends and can affect divers and airplane passengers during ascents and descents.

(Related story: "Military Sonar May Give Whales the Bends, Study Says" [October 1, 2003])

The "Bends"

"As a turbine blade goes around, it creates liftlike an airplane's wingsand there is a small zone of [dropping] pressure, maybe a meter or so in diameter, on the tips of the blades," explained Baerwald, a doctoral candidate at the University of Calgary, in Alberta.

"Bats fly through this area, and their lungs expand, and the fine capillaries around the edges of the lungs burst."

The bats' lungs subsequently fill with fluid, and the animals essentially drown.

"We compare it to diversthey are pretty much dying of the bends," Baerwald said.

Bats have no natural defense against the unnaturally dramatic pressure changes.

"Bats can actually detect pressure changes, but we're talking large-scale, relatively slow changes, like the coming of a storm front," said Baerwald. "This is something entirely different."

Most bats that fall victim to turbines are migrating species, such as hoary bats, eastern red bats, and silver-haired bats.

There are not enough data to determine how wind turbine fatalities might be affecting populations of these slow-reproducing mammals.

Birds are also killed by blows from wind turbine rotors (see a related story), but their rigid, tubelike lungs can better withstand air pressure changes.

The study appears this week in the journal Current Biology.

Curiosity Killed the Bat

"They are the first to have done a large scale look at this [damage to the bat lungs]," Bat Conservation International (BCI) biologist Ed Arnett said of the researchers.

"It's fascinating information," said Arnett, who is not involved with the study.

"But ultimately it might not matter so much how [the bats] die but what is attracting them to the turbines in the first place."

Preventing the bat deaths has challenged experts for years.

"We've partnered with industry and federal agencies to raise and spend about two million dollars looking for a solution," said BCI founder and president Merlin Tuttle.

Laurie Jodziewicz, of the American Wind Energy Association in Washington, D.C., said where the turbines are placed may be the key.

"Bats are not being [killed] at all the wind projects all over the countryit is happening in some places and not others," she said.

"We're trying to determine before construction what areas might be risky."

Turbines create drops in pressure drop during normal operations, so the problem could possibly be addressed by changing when the turbines run, according to BCI's Tuttle.

"A large portion of the kills occur at the lowest wind speeds," he said, "and at those low speeds [the turbines] are not generating appreciable electricity anyway."

Bats also are at particular risk during migration periods in late summer and early fall, when many turbine related fatalities occur.

Arnett, Baerwald, and others are currently conducting tests to see if raising the "cut-in" wind speed at which rotors begin to turn will save batsparticularly during peak migration periods.

"It won't eliminate the problem, but it's a good step in the right direction," Tuttle said.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080825-bat-bends.html

richyoung

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,242
  • bring a big gun
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2008, 12:25:08 PM »
That's not the "bends" - thats pulmonary hemorrhage.  Bends is nitrogen bubbles in tissue.  Article gets a F for FAIL.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

Scout26

  • I'm a leaf on the wind.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25,997
  • I spent a week in that town one night....
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2008, 12:31:08 PM »
Quote
Wind Turbines Give Bats the "Bends," Study Finds

Scientists aren't sure why, but bats are attracted to the turbines, which often stand 300 feet (90 meters) high and sport 200-foot (60-meter) blades.

[high pitched bat voice] Holy Carp !!!!! Sonar indicates the biggest freakin' moquito ever !!!! [/HPBV]
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2008, 03:01:15 PM »
That's not the "bends" - thats pulmonary hemorrhage.  Bends is nitrogen bubbles in tissue.  Article gets a F for FAIL.
Sounds to me like "the bends" is an apt description.  The bat suddenly finds itself in a very low pressure area, which causes dissolved gas in the lung capillaries to bubble out.  The article doesn't say so, but the gas involved would be mostly nitrogen.

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »
indeed the bends is a term that covers a variety of symptomology and the pulmonary embolism is one of them
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Standing Wolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,978
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2008, 03:57:44 PM »
Quote
Scientists aren't sure why, but bats are attracted to the turbines, which often stand 300 feet (90 meters) high and sport 200-foot (60-meter) blades.

I can tell you right now: it's those stupid French meters that are killing bats. Use honest inches and feet, and they'll be fineif you care about bats, that is.
No tyrant should ever be allowed to die of natural causes.

lupinus

  • Southern Mod Trimutive Emeritus
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9,178
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2008, 03:59:21 PM »
Quote
Scientists aren't sure why, but bats are attracted to the turbines, which often stand 300 feet (90 meters) high and sport 200-foot (60-meter) blades.

I can tell you right now: it's those stupid French meters that are killing bats. Use honest inches and feet, and they'll be fineif you care about bats, that is.
Yep.  Just ask NASA  laugh
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

One of Many

  • friend
  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 107
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2008, 04:16:12 PM »
Why not mount an emitter on the end of each blade, that sends out a sound that drives the bats away. Make it interfere with their natural sonar, or better yet make them think they are about to hit a brick wall.

never_retreat

  • Head Muckety Muck
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,158
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2008, 05:56:18 PM »
So what don't wind turbines kill?
I needed a mod to change my signature because the concept of "family friendly" eludes me.
Just noticed that a mod changed my signature. How long ago was that?
A few months-mods

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2008, 06:01:25 PM »
So what don't wind turbines kill?

Fistful.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

freakazoid

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,243
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2008, 06:20:13 PM »
Quote
which spin at a rate of about 160 miles (260 kilometers) per hour.

 shocked Everytime I see them it looks like they are barely spinning.
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

French G.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 10,195
  • ohhh sparkles!
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2008, 06:39:26 PM »
Quote
shocked Every time I see them it looks like they are barely spinning.

Figure out the circumference and the RPM, the tip speed can be astonishingly fast with even a low RPM.

Wind is costly to us in subsidy handouts, environmental damage, and in my local case scenery and habitat which drive the tourist trade. Benefits are dubious.

Build more nukes.
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

freakazoid

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,243
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2008, 06:54:42 PM »
crazy
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic

LAK

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 915
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2008, 12:43:13 AM »
Quote
So what don't wind turbines kill?
Exactly.

Sounds like a few dingbats are suffering deaths from misadventure. It is not as if they can not "see" the spinning blades. Evidently some of them are taking chances and getting too close to them.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2008, 03:19:10 AM »
Yup, I used to watch the dolphins have fun by swimming through the rotating screws on the DDG I was on. never seen one get hurt but that doesn't mean it never happens. How do we know these bats aren't just doing some joyride thing through the blades and a few are well,,, cutting it a bit too close? Nope evrything is our fault, which utlimately means...  undecided
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Mabs2

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,979
  • セクシー
    • iCarly
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 03:39:59 AM »
Quote from: jamisjockey
Sunday it felt a little better, but it was quite irritated from me rubbing it.
Quote from: Mike Irwin
If you watch any of the really early episodes of the Porter Waggoner show she was in (1967) it's very clear that he was well endowed.
Quote from: Ben
Just wanted to give a forum thumbs up to Dick.

Manedwolf

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 14,516
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 03:40:44 AM »
Quote
So what don't wind turbines kill?
Exactly.

Sounds like a few dingbats are suffering deaths from misadventure. It is not as if they can not "see" the spinning blades. Evidently some of them are taking chances and getting too close to them.

You miss the point. Nuclear plants do not kill ANYTHING. Seabrook is surrounded by wetland marshes, silent and pristine.

Mabs2

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,979
  • セクシー
    • iCarly
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 03:47:26 AM »
Quote
So what don't wind turbines kill?
Exactly.

Sounds like a few dingbats are suffering deaths from misadventure. It is not as if they can not "see" the spinning blades. Evidently some of them are taking chances and getting too close to them.

You miss the point. Nuclear plants do not kill ANYTHING. Seabrook is surrounded by wetland marshes, silent and pristine.

My dad is moving to a town past Richmond with a Nuclear plant that cools off from the local lake.  The lake stays like 80 degrees year round they say.  Far as I can think, that can't be anything but good for local aquatic life.
Quote from: jamisjockey
Sunday it felt a little better, but it was quite irritated from me rubbing it.
Quote from: Mike Irwin
If you watch any of the really early episodes of the Porter Waggoner show she was in (1967) it's very clear that he was well endowed.
Quote from: Ben
Just wanted to give a forum thumbs up to Dick.

Firethorn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,789
  • Where'd my explosive space modulator go?
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 04:20:50 AM »
My dad is moving to a town past Richmond with a Nuclear plant that cools off from the local lake.  The lake stays like 80 degrees year round they say.  Far as I can think, that can't be anything but good for local aquatic life.

It's been known for years that some of the best fishing is just downstream of a nuclear plant - the warmer water encourages marine life, as long as it's not too hot, and no plant is allowed to release water that hot.

richyoung

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,242
  • bring a big gun
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 04:33:59 AM »
That's not the "bends" - thats pulmonary hemorrhage.  Bends is nitrogen bubbles in tissue.  Article gets a F for FAIL.
Sounds to me like "the bends" is an apt description.  The bat suddenly finds itself in a very low pressure area, which causes dissolved gas in the lung capillaries to bubble out.  The article doesn't say so, but the gas involved would be mostly nitrogen.

Nitrogen does not dissolve int o blood at 1 atmosphere pressure.   You need many times atmosphereic pressure for it to dissolve in - such as occurs on deep ocean dives.  In fact, I seriously doubt that a wind-driven airfoil is going to reach low enough pressure to cause ANY gas to bubble in blood - more likely, the capillaries rupture from simple differential hydraulic pressure.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

richyoung

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,242
  • bring a big gun
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 04:39:00 AM »
indeed the bends is a term that covers a variety of symptomology and the pulmonary embolism is one of them

"Pulmonary embolism" is not the same thing as "pulmonary hemorrhage".  Further, "bends" can indeed cause a pulmonary embolism, but not all pulmonary embolisms  are "bends".

"the bends": caused by breathing nitrogen or other gases under pressure, which are not metabolized by the body.

Last I checked, bats don't scuba dive...
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't...

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,785
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 06:08:16 AM »
Surely it would be simply to add some sort of siren to keep the bats away.  It doesn't have to be loud and doesn't have to be audible to humans.
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge

cassandra and sara's daddy

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 20,781
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2008, 06:09:34 AM »
folks got the bends long before scuba
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,651
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2008, 06:23:48 AM »
folks got the bends long before scuba
"Caisson disease" was an affliction of bridge builders.

As for the bats . . . sounds like windmills may speed evolution along and, eventually, make the bat population just a bit smarter.
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

Tuco

  • Fastest non-sequitur in the West.
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,111
  • If you miss you had better miss very well
Re: Wind turbines kill bats
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2008, 06:24:15 AM »
My dad is moving to a town past Richmond with a Nuclear plant that cools off from the local lake.  The lake stays like 80 degrees year round they say.  Far as I can think, that can't be anything but good for local aquatic life.

Warning - Hijack and oversimplification ahead -

Freshwater's ability to contain dissolved oxygen decreases as water temperature increases.  Fish "breathe" dissolved oxygen through their gills.
Cold water lowers fish metabolism (fish are cold blooded) and they don't need as much oxygen.  Warm water raises fish metabolism, requiring more oxygen..
    
Different fish species have different oxygen (temperature) requirements.  The specific requirements for specific species is easily available with a google "Fish (trout, carp, cisco) Oxygen Requirements"

Warm water does not equate to limnological nirvana, but please, reach your own conclusions.

hijack off.
7-11 was a part time job.