Author Topic: Illinois carry status? (Read 26844 times)

AZRedhawk44 · « **on:** May 17, 2013, 11:04:27 AM »

What is the scoop folks?

I remember hearing that if they default on doing something that the court thinks is reasonable then they become constitutional carry by default. Where does that stand?

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #1 on:** May 17, 2013, 11:09:08 AM »

They have till June 9th, I believe. Chicago keeps obstructing with may-issue and home rule nonsense, which downstate doesn't seem willing to settle for. I'd recommend Illinois Carry Dot Com for moar informations.

Scout26 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 17, 2013, 01:32:13 PM »

http://www.illinoisconcealedcarrycountdown.com/

And the discussion site: http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

And it's not really "Constitutional Carry", it's "Court Carry" as, for Illinois Residents it will require possessing a FOID card. Non-residents, presumably, will get a pass on that requirement.

Lots of shenanigans being attempted in the legislature, with various No-Issue, May-Issues, and Cook County/Chicago Carve-out bills being floated. None however have even come close having anywhere near a majority to pass either house. And of course, Gov. "Three-County" Quinn (he only won 3 of 102 Illinois counties in the last election) has promised to veto any LTC/CCW legislation.

Now since the UUW and AUUW statutes have been declared unconstitutional, conceivably one could carry RFN as any charges would get tossed come June 9. (Offer valid anywhere outside of Chicago and Cook County only.)

No matter what happens, it's too late. Even if they were to pass something today (HA!). There's not enough time to hire people to staff the office, set-up rules and procedures to apply, print and distribute forms and all the 10,000 other little things that would need to be done to get a program in place and running on 9 June.

At this point, I'm urging my rep and senator to vote against everything and let us have "Court Carry". Once we get that, there's no way we'll let them pass a law requiring us to pay for the right.

lee n. field · « **Reply #3 on:** May 17, 2013, 01:53:52 PM »

Don't do it, yet.

They've pissed away 5.5 months. They may yet pass something. If they don't, the absolute prohibition on carry is vacated. What they may or may not pass may or may not have an exclusion for Mordor. Illinioiscarry.com is the place to keep tabs on the games.

Wifely asked me the other day, either what I was going to carry or what holster I was going to use.

lee n. field · « **Reply #4 on:** May 17, 2013, 02:02:23 PM »

Anyway AZRH, what you're probably asking is if it's OK to come here, and how.

You've got the XDS with you, IIRC. That should be fine. We have no approved gun list, no magazine limits at this point (outside Crook Co.), and there are none publically contemplated that would affect that little thing.

No open carry. There are legal blurry edges to the absolute ban on CCW, through a quirk in our transportation law. Google up "fanny pack carry". People have gotten away with it. I wouldn't want to this close to 6/9 anyway.

Look decent, don't misbehave, keep the gun unloaded in it's case in your saddlebag, and no one will have a legal leg to stand on to harrass you over.

I suspect, once we're safely past the "CCW Cliff", that a lot of interesting stories will come out.

Scout26 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 17, 2013, 02:06:28 PM »

Or you could just arrive here on or after 9 June and join the rest of us in shoot-outs over parking spaces.

lee n. field · « **Reply #6 on:** May 18, 2013, 01:35:19 PM »

Three weeks and counting.

Viking · « **Reply #7 on:** May 18, 2013, 01:48:04 PM »

If/when Court Carry becomes law, would that allow for conceal carry only?

Scout26 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 18, 2013, 01:56:39 PM »

No, it would allow for any kind of carry as there are/will be no UUW statut

Quote

e.

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or

carries any bludgeon, black-jack, slung-shot, sand-club, sand-bag, metal knuckles or other knuckle weapon regardless of its composition, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or
(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same

unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character; or
(3) Carries on or about his person or in any vehicle,

a tear gas gun projector or bomb or any object containing noxious liquid gas or substance, other than an object containing a non-lethal noxious liquid gas or substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older; or
(4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed

on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,

firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card; or (5) Sets a spring gun; or
(6) Possesses any device or attachment of any kind

designed, used or intended for use in silencing the report of any firearm; or
(7) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or

carries:
(i) a machine gun, which shall be defined for the

purposes of this subsection as any weapon, which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manually reloading by a single function of the trigger, including the frame or receiver of any such weapon, or sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses, or carries any combination of parts designed or intended for use in converting any weapon into a machine gun, or any combination or parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person;
(ii) any rifle having one or more barrels less

than 16 inches in length or a shotgun having one or more barrels less than 18 inches in length or any weapon made from a rifle or shotgun, whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise, if such a weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches; or
(iii) any bomb, bomb-shell, grenade, bottle or

other container containing an explosive substance of over one-quarter ounce for like purposes, such as, but not limited to, black powder bombs and Molotov cocktails or artillery projectiles; or
(8) Carries or possesses any firearm, stun gun or

taser or other deadly weapon in any place which is licensed to sell intoxicating beverages, or at any public gathering held pursuant to a license issued by any governmental body or any public gathering at which an admission is charged, excluding a place where a showing, demonstration or lecture involving the exhibition of unloaded firearms is conducted.
This subsection (a)(8) does not apply to any auction

or raffle of a firearm held pursuant to a license or permit issued by a governmental body, nor does it apply to persons engaged in firearm safety training courses; or
(9) Carries or possesses in a vehicle or on or about

his person any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or firearm or ballistic knife, when he is hooded, robed or masked in such manner as to conceal his identity; or
(10) Carries or possesses on or about his person,

upon any public street, alley, or other public lands within the corporate limits of a city, village or incorporated town, except when an invitee thereon or therein, for the purpose of the display of such weapon or the lawful commerce in weapons, or except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (10) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:
(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case,

firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card.
A "stun gun or taser", as used in this paragraph (a)

means (i) any device which is powered by electrical charging units, such as, batteries, and which fires one or several barbs attached to a length of wire and which, upon hitting a human, can send out a current capable of disrupting the person's nervous system in such a manner as to render him incapable of normal functioning or (ii) any device which is powered by electrical charging units, such as batteries, and which, upon contact with a human or clothing worn by a human, can send out current capable of disrupting the person's nervous system in such a manner as to render him incapable of normal functioning; or
(11) Sells, manufactures or purchases any explosive

bullet. For purposes of this paragraph (a) "explosive bullet" means the projectile portion of an ammunition cartridge which contains or carries an explosive charge which will explode upon contact with the flesh of a human or an animal. "Cartridge" means a tubular metal case having a projectile affixed at the front thereof and a cap or primer at the rear end thereof, with the propellant contained in such tube between the projectile and the cap; or
(12) (Blank); or
(13) Carries or possesses on or about his or her

person while in a building occupied by a unit of government, a billy club, other weapon of like character, or other instrument of like character intended for use as a weapon. For the purposes of this Section, "billy club" means a short stick or club commonly carried by police officers which is either telescopic or constructed of a solid piece of wood or other man-made material.
(b) Sentence. A person convicted of a violation of subsection 24-1(a)(1) through (5), subsection 24-1(a)(10), subsection 24-1(a)(11), or subsection 24-1(a)(13) commits a Class A misdemeanor. A person convicted of a violation of subsection 24-1(a)(8) or 24-1(a)(9) commits a Class 4 felony; a person convicted of a violation of subsection 24-1(a)(6) or 24-1(a)(7)(ii) or (iii) commits a Class 3 felony. A person convicted of a violation of subsection 24-1(a)(7)(i) commits a Class 2 felony and shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 3 years and not more than 7 years, unless the weapon is possessed in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle as defined in Section 1-146 of the Illinois Vehicle Code, or on the person, while the weapon is loaded, in which case it shall be a Class X felony. A person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of subsection 24-1(a)(4), 24-1(a)(8), 24-1(a)(9), or 24-1(a)(10) commits a Class 3 felony. The possession of each weapon in violation of this Section constitutes a single and separate violation.
(c) Violations in specific places.
(1) A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(6) or

24-1(a)(7) in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a public transportation agency, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, public transportation facility, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 2 felony and shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 3 years and not more than 7 years.
(1.5) A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(4),

24-1(a)(9), or 24-1(a)(10) in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a public transportation agency, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, public transportation facility, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 3 felony.
(2) A person who violates subsection 24-1(a)(1),

24-1(a)(2), or 24-1(a)(3) in any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, in residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, in a public park, in a courthouse, on the real property comprising any school, regardless of the time of day or the time of year, on residential property owned, operated or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development, on the real property comprising any public park, on the real property comprising any courthouse, in any conveyance owned, leased or contracted by a school to transport students to or from school or a school related activity, in any conveyance owned, leased, or contracted by a public transportation agency, or on any public way within 1,000 feet of the real property comprising any school, public park, courthouse, public transportation facility, or residential property owned, operated, or managed by a public housing agency or leased by a public housing agency as part of a scattered site or mixed-income development commits a Class 4 felony. "Courthouse" means any building that is used by the Circuit, Appellate, or Supreme Court of this State for the conduct of official business.
(3) Paragraphs (1), (1.5), and (2) of this subsection

(c) shall not apply to law enforcement officers or security officers of such school, college, or university or to students carrying or possessing firearms for use in training courses, parades, hunting, target shooting on school ranges, or otherwise with the consent of school authorities and which firearms are transported unloaded enclosed in a suitable case, box, or transportation package.
(4) For the purposes of this subsection (c), "school"

means any public or private elementary or secondary school, community college, college, or university.
(5) For the purposes of this subsection (c),

"public transportation agency" means a public or private agency that provides for the transportation or conveyance of persons by means available to the general public, except for transportation by automobiles not used for conveyance of the general public as passengers; and "public transportation facility" means a terminal or other place where one may obtain public transportation.
(d) The presence in an automobile other than a public omnibus of any weapon, instrument or substance referred to in subsection (a)(7) is prima facie evidence that it is in the possession of, and is being carried by, all persons occupying such automobile at the time such weapon, instrument or substance is found, except under the following circumstances: (i) if such weapon, instrument or instrumentality is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; or (ii) if such weapon, instrument or substance is found in an automobile operated for hire by a duly licensed driver in the due, lawful and proper pursuit of his trade, then such presumption shall not apply to the driver.
(e) Exemptions. Crossbows, Common or Compound bows and Underwater Spearguns are exempted from the definition of ballistic knife as defined in paragraph (1) of subsection (a) of this Section.
(Source: P.A. 95-331, eff. 8-21-07; 95-809, eff. 1-1-09; 95-885, eff. 1-1-09; 96-41, eff. 1-1-10; 96-328, eff. 8-11-09; 96-742, eff. 8-25-09; 96-1000, eff. 7-2-10.)

AZRedhawk44 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 18, 2013, 07:17:54 PM »

I'll probably be there right after 6/9.

It's 5/18 right now. Leaving NOLA tomorrow. Probably spend 4-5 days in FL, possibly more... got an old HS friend down in West Palm Beach that I haven't seen in forever. Then hanging with Jocassee memorial day weekend, I think. Probably leaving New England and headed west along the Lakes by 6/1, maybe a day or two later. Going up and around Lake Michigan like I want will take all weekend of June 7/8/9.

lee n. field · « **Reply #10 on:** May 18, 2013, 07:35:11 PM »

Just in time for Blood in De Streets.

We're already starting to see "No Guns" signs.

Matthew Carberry · « **Reply #11 on:** May 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM »

From what I'm reading it won't be a free for all. There's no state premption and every jurisdiction can put in place its own time place and manner restrictions. The dreaded patchwork of laws.

Scout26 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 18, 2013, 08:41:02 PM »

Quote from: Matthew Carberry on May 18, 2013, 08:15:05 PM

From what I'm reading it won't be a free for all. There's no state premption and every jurisdiction can put in place its own time place and manner restrictions. The dreaded patchwork of laws.

And there will be a patchwork of 1983 lawsuits. Judge Pozner of the 7th Circuit will NOT be amused by the shenanigans of a bunch of towns, villages, park districts and library boards. He's going to have a serious case of the ass when his "You got 6 months to come up with a LTC law" comes to end on 9 June with no law passed by the ILGA. I would love to be a fly on the wall.....

drewtam · « **Reply #13 on:** May 18, 2013, 09:18:23 PM »

To my chagrin, Peoria has a concealed carry ban since '07, but no ordinance on open carry.

BTW, these city ordinances are capped as misdemeanors as the maximum offense per State constitution.

Scout26 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 18, 2013, 11:59:32 PM »

Quote from: drewtam on May 18, 2013, 09:18:23 PM

To my chagrin, Peoria has a concealed carry ban since '07, but no ordinance on open carry.

BTW, these city ordinances are capped as misdemeanors as the maximum offense per State constitution.

Correct. Only the state can charge you with a felony.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #15 on:** May 22, 2013, 11:07:32 PM »

What's up with this?

If it's accurate, http://www.gunssavelife.com/?p=7650

Seems to indicate the belief that an expensive permit, and lots of craptastic no-carry zones is worth stripping Chicago of it's home-rule status on things gun-related...

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #16 on:** May 22, 2013, 11:10:19 PM »

What is a "goofy panel"?

drewtam · « **Reply #17 on:** May 23, 2013, 02:07:24 PM »

I think Illinois Carry servers are overloaded, can't seem to connect.

Quote from: fistful on May 22, 2013, 11:10:19 PM

What is a "goofy panel"?

Are you referring to the bill details?
The police can object to an applicant that otherwise meets the requirements. The objection goes before a hearing panel, the members of the panel seem to be appointed by the Gov. Many are worried this is a backdoor "may issue" loophole by systematically objecting to every applicant.

Matthew Carberry · « **Reply #18 on:** May 23, 2013, 08:18:08 PM »

When the server comes up go read the bill. The review panel includes both parties, and can't be completely stuffed by design, and Posner will not take kindly to any attempt to make it proforma "no issue." It isn't as simple as "we object", being repeated ad nauseum, actual supporting evidence is required.

The key win apparently was the preemption, no more supermajorities required to improve the law and the various local laws, like Chicago's AWB, are gone.

Now the grind starts.

It actually reads like most of the first wave of "shall-issue" laws passed in the early '90s. Signage, high fees, lots of restricted places, etc. But those have fallen in a matter of years in most states, session by session.

The big two gripes are the review panel, which I think won't be as bad as it is being presented by folks (like me) who thought a clean bill would be passed; and the ban on carry on public transportation. The latter can probably be challenged on equal rights grounds using poor gun owners as front men, likewise the high permit fees.

The thing to keep in mind is that even though this law is a couple decades behind the current shall-issue status quo, IL is starting better than NY/NJ/MD or Cali and there is push-back even in those states about the anti-Dems trying to tighten their laws. The momentum is with the pro-carry side in IL.

Ron · « **Reply #19 on:** May 23, 2013, 09:58:34 PM »

It's a little underwhelming with all the tall talking that has gone on.

drewtam · « **Reply #20 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:10:07 PM »

In the high level view, I think you are right Matt.

To the gripe I would add there are so many public places restrictions that it seems almost impossible to do anything with the family outdoors while armed.

PROS

Shall issue
Preemption (no city can ban)
Able to travel to a parking lot near a prohibited area/building, disarm or rearm, inside, or the immediate vicinity of your vehicle. (vehicle is essentially a safe habor anywhere in the state)
Appears to eliminate a majority of the issue over Chicago Firearm Permits, Removes all local firearm bans/registries/licenses (including the chicagoland rules)
Reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor for accidentally carrying in a prohibited place.

CONS

Bans carrying on subsidized public transport (trains, buses, etc), which is big impact for Chicagoland
16hr training requirement (time consuming and expensive)
$150 Permit fee PLUS training/qualification/ammo alienates citizens unable to attend due to circumstances or afford due to financial situation.
Discourages non-residents seeking to legally carry in IL due to high fees plus training/ammo/etc. ($300 for out of state permit, $??? for training)
No substitute for those who are already qualified for permits in other states VIA DD214/Military service to bypass training requirements.
Zero reciprocity with other states permit
Carrying in restaurants with 50% food /50% alcohol revenue is forbidden, how would a person know? (bars are obvious, but Chile's might be difficult to judge)
Signs specifying carry is prohibited are too small/need to be larger.
Numerous gun free zones
Creates gun owner database available for any state or fed agency

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #21 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:13:55 PM »

Quote from: Matthew Carberry on May 23, 2013, 08:18:08 PM

It actually reads like most of the first wave of "shall-issue" laws passed in the early '90s. Signage, high fees, lots of restricted places, etc. But those have fallen in a matter of years in most states, session by session.

The big two gripes are the review panel, which I think won't be as bad as it is being presented by folks (like me) who thought a clean bill would be passed; and the ban on carry on public transportation. The latter can probably be challenged on equal rights grounds using poor gun owners as front men, likewise the high permit fees.

The thing to keep in mind is that even though this law is a couple decades behind the current shall-issue status quo, IL is starting better than NY/NJ/MD or Cali and there is push-back even in those states about the anti-Dems trying to tighten their laws. The momentum is with the pro-carry side in IL.

That's kinda what I was thinking.

The permit fee works out to $30/year. Missouri sheriffs are allowed to charge up to $33.33/year, though it can be less than that. I think MO's law is about to change to five-year permits, though, which would bring our costs down considerably.

I'm more worried about IL's non-resident fee, which is apparently going to be $300. I don't think I'll be able to swing that, especially with the 16-hour course.

Scout26 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:27:09 PM »

Quote from: Matthew Carberry on May 23, 2013, 08:18:08 PM

It actually reads like most of the first wave of "shall-issue" laws passed in the early '90s. Signage, high fees, lots of restricted places, etc. But those have fallen in a matter of years in most states, session by session.

The big two gripes are the review panel, which I think won't be as bad as it is being presented by folks (like me) who thought a clean bill would be passed; and the ban on carry on public transportation. The latter can probably be challenged on equal rights grounds using poor gun owners as front men, likewise the high permit fees.

The thing to keep in mind is that even though this law is a couple decades behind the current shall-issue status quo, IL is starting better than NY/NJ/MD or Cali and there is push-back even in those states about the anti-Dems trying to tighten their laws. The momentum is with the pro-carry side in IL.

This is Illinois. There won't be any "Fix it later". Madigan and Cullerton won't allow it. We'll get a pat on the head and told "You got carry, now *expletive deleted*ck-off peasant."

Instructors have to "approved" by Illinois State Police. NRA instructors need not apply. You have to have LE credentials AND then be approved. What happens if the ISP refuses to first "approve" a course of instruction and then refuses to certify any instructors?

That board will end up reviewing every application. Any contact with LE and you'll be denied. THey can deny you if they think you are a danger to yourself or others. "Hmmm, he wants to carry a gun, he;'ll be a danger to others."

The list of prohibited places means that I can carry in my car and front yard, but pretty much every other public place is off limits.

Plus all the stuff Drewtam lists.

This is a bad, bad bill. HB997 or let's go over the cliff.

lee n. field · « **Reply #23 on:** May 24, 2013, 09:25:54 AM »

As my brother opined to me: "Don't worry, they'll pass something that sucks for everyone."

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #24 on:** May 24, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »

Well, it IS Illinois.

News:

Author Topic: Illinois carry status? (Read 26844 times)