Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: dogmush on May 27, 2020, 12:32:39 PM
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Space-X's Demo-2 flight is going to try to launch people to the ISS this afternoon, weather permitting.
This test, if it goes well, will certify the Dragon for regular crew use. Should be pretty cool if it launches.
Scheduled for 1633 EDT.
Stream here: https://www.spacex.com/launches/
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I'm streaming here, it's the same feed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjb9FdVdX5I
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Already had NASA live on youtube up in a browser tab for it.
Light this candle!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aymrnzianf0
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Was typing mine at the same time you posted lol
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Those new suits would fit right in on The Expanse.
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Those new suits would fit right in on The Expanse.
Yeah, I was just gonna post on those. Interesting that this time around they seemed to combine utility and fashion. :)
I remember seeing, maybe a year ago or so, the new design for the Mars spacesuits. Those were pretty cool too.
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Awesome, I see Elon is there to see
his minions for world domination, I mean, the astronauts off.
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This is great, thanks for posting this.
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There appear to have been a few updates to the User Interface for spacecraft:
(https://i.imgur.com/zFcPJTL.jpg)
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There appear to have been a few updates to the User Interface for spacecraft:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/zFcPJTL.jpg
There's probably some joke about government vs private in there somewhere. :laugh:
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Here comes Air Force One
Cue the liberal outrage
Orange Launch Bad!
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There appear to have been a few updates to the User Interface for spacecraft:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/zFcPJTL.jpg
Shuttle was 70s tech. (yes I know that's the updated flight deck)
Think about how TVs, computers, cars, and phones have changed from then.
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Shuttle was 70s tech. (yes I know that's the updated flight deck)
Think about how TVs, computers, cars, and phones have changed from then.
Oh, I know. I wasn't picking on the shuttle, just pointing out the stark differences.
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Call me when they have some astronauts that will honestly tell us how flat the earth is. ;/ So tired of these shills for the New World Order.
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Showing T-58 minutes right now.
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This is incredibly cool. I've not been this excited about a launch since the first space shuttle flight in 1981.
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Almost a million people watching the feed now. Looks like, weather permitting, Bob and Doug are going to take off, eh.
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COME ON WEATHER!!! :mad:
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Looks like weather is a problem. Scrubbed today.
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Looks like weather is a problem. Scrubbed today.
Yep. Next window is Saturday at 3:22pm EDT, 1922Z.
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Scrubbed?!?!? Get out, eh!
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Screw the weather, you hosers!
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Back in my day we didn't let the weather stop us :old:
(https://images.twnmm.com/c55i45ef3o2a/WrnnEMFnstij96HgvmjXO/782b5d8e407d2b3b61e6fe55c8b36055/Ligthning-strikes-Apollo12-SaturnV-NASA.jpg?w=600&h=400&fit=pad&fm=jpg)
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Looks like a Saturn V taking a lightning strike. Apollo 12?
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Oh, I know. I wasn't picking on the shuttle, just pointing out the stark differences.
Analog vs. digital? I think there are many switches I'd want secondary and tertiary backups direct wired to their components.
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Looks like a Saturn V taking a lightning strike. Apollo 12?
Yep
They were struck twice during launch
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Good read on the strikes
More than SCE to AUX - Apollo 12 Lightning Strike Incident
https://history.nasa.gov/afj/ap12fj/a12-lightningstrike.html
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I do find it curious that the launch and flight is planned (constricted?) to the point that there is literally no window, while watching the live stream it became pretty apparent that it's go at go time down to the second or not at all.
I wonder if this is more operational choice or if it's strictly a matter of physics and capabilities? Does the spacecraft and mission have the ability to calculate alternate burns and what not to still make a proper rendezvous if the launch happens ten minutes later (as alluded to on the stream, the weather probably would've allowed for given another ten or 15 minutes)? Or is it simply not an option within the spacecrafts abilities? I'm obviously no rocket scientist or judge, just a legitimate curiosity.
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I do find it curious that the launch and flight is planned (constricted?) to the point that there is literally no window, while watching the live stream it became pretty apparent that it's go at go time down to the second or not at all.
I wonder if this is more operational choice or if it's strictly a matter of physics and capabilities? Does the spacecraft and mission have the ability to calculate alternate burns and what not to still make a proper rendezvous if the launch happens ten minutes later (as alluded to on the stream, the weather probably would've allowed for given another ten or 15 minutes)? Or is it simply not an option within the spacecrafts abilities? I'm obviously no rocket scientist or judge, just a legitimate curiosity.
They talked about that during the livestream. Basically, the rocket doesn't have the extra fuel to do it. As the LOX heats up, it loses performance, which means more fuel is needed. As the flight is delayed, the Space Station gets farther away, which means more fuel is needed.
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Seems like that's cutting it a bit closer than I'd be comfortable with. Just enough fuel to make it there - with nothing left over?
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Once they hit orbit they have a window but how wide it is we might never know. I'm sure they have enough to get back home if it goes tits up.
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Seems like that's cutting it a bit closer than I'd be comfortable with. Just enough fuel to make it there - with nothing left over?
JIT. If they need more, they'll hit up Amazon.
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Seems like that's cutting it a bit closer than I'd be comfortable with. Just enough fuel to make it there - with nothing left over?
Their default is to reenter so there's no extra danger to only have enough, but it does seem to make their window pretty narrow.
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Keep in mind that when used in either return to launch site or drone ship landing modes (as this launch is intended) the first stage must maintain enough fuel after separation to land itself. The window is smaller because they have To reserve that thrust. If they wanted to go full expendable mode then I bet they could have a wider window.
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Seems like that's cutting it a bit closer than I'd be comfortable with. Just enough fuel to make it there - with nothing left over?
What Cordex said, plus, extra fuel = extra weight = less payload.
Smarter Every Day on youtube had some info about giving up fuel/rocket weight to gain payload weight. Interesting stuff.
I think the info is in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0fG_lnVhHw It is long, but very interesting, even to a layman.
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This is also an and to end flight test. They may be testing some set of variables that lock them into this particular orbital insertion.
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There appear to have been a few updates to the User Interface for spacecraft:
(https://i.imgur.com/zFcPJTL.jpg)
I'm frankly amazed that SpaceX has managed to stick to such a clean futuristic industrial design aesthetic inside the Dragon capsule. I kind of assumed that after seeing the mockups, the realities of design and man-rating would force them to have more exposed pipes, levers, and various greeblies around the cabin. Not so apparently.
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I'm frankly amazed that SpaceX has managed to stick to such a clean futuristic industrial design aesthetic inside the Dragon capsule. I kind of assumed that after seeing the mockups, the realities of design and man-rating would force them to have more exposed pipes, levers, and various greeblies around the cabin. Not so apparently.
Somewhere around T-35m before the scrub the guy on board pulled his feet out of the stirrups and stretched his legs followed by scratching his left shoulder with his right hand. My he first thought was "couldn't do that in the shuttle!"
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So in the event of manual maneuvers, does the crew fly the Crew Dragon with a joystick, or is it tapping on a touchscreen?
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So in the event of manual maneuvers, does the crew fly the Crew Dragon with a joystick, or is it tapping on a touchscreen?
Tappy Tap Tap.
This simulator is the actual interface: https://iss-sim.spacex.com/ If you click on the link in the blurb before yous start the sim, there's a video of someone in a Dragon using the controls. There does seem to be a physical button to engage the control interface.
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And while there are full on manual overrides, a big point is being made that it really is basically autonomous. Which makes sense I suppose considering the spacecraft has cargo only variants.
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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I do find it curious that the launch and flight is planned (constricted?) to the point that there is literally no window, while watching the live stream it became pretty apparent that it's go at go time down to the second or not at all.
I wonder if this is more operational choice or if it's strictly a matter of physics and capabilities? Does the spacecraft and mission have the ability to calculate alternate burns and what not to still make a proper rendezvous if the launch happens ten minutes later (as alluded to on the stream, the weather probably would've allowed for given another ten or 15 minutes)? Or is it simply not an option within the spacecrafts abilities? I'm obviously no rocket scientist or judge, just a legitimate curiosity.
Not so much a matter of fuel, as it is of orbital mechanics and safety.
Catching up to something in orbit means you have to go faster than it. Going faster raises your orbit. So now you're above it. To match its elevation and its position in orbit, you'll be burning a lot of fuel.
Falcon's 2nd stage has enough fuel to deliver a cargo like Dragon all the way to a GTO orbit, way beyond LEO. But it's a big engine and using it at even minimum thrust it can put out throws a lot of G's at those humans inside the capsule. So the ideal solution is to use the hypergolic fuel in the Dragon for orbital maneuvering (the OMS engines on Dragon are called Dracos), and only have 2nd stage perform the orbital insertion from the point of booster MECO and final approximate orbital height/speed. That's only a couple of minutes of burn time.
The second stage will be deorbited for this mission probably at least half full of fuel. If the 2nd stage did perform OMS catch-up, it would also have to perform OMS de-acceleration. That would be hours later, and keep in mind that Falcon 9 uses superchilled fuels. These fuels get warmed in space, or cooled, depending on sun exposure. The RP-1 can gel up on the night side, or get too warm on the sunny side. Reliability of engine output goes down from ideal, and you're talking about trying to account for hundreds of meters per second of velocity difference between Dragon and ISS during rendezvous. I think Dragon's full hypergolic load only provides about 400m/s delta-V. Using that to slow down a capsule that was accelerated at the ISS by a 2nd stage is not an ideal situation.
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Light this candle!
weather 50-50 for the 3:22 launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexTqJGzFtE
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T -:49 minutes Still GO on weather.
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Looking good. T-23m [popcorn]
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5 min. Looking good for today.
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WOOT!!!
I'm pretty geeked out.
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Better
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIZsnKGV8TE
The NASA feed switched to NBC which sucks
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First stage landed
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Orbit achieved, landing stuck, zero gee indicator positive. Very slick. :cool:
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Did anyone else notice they brought a small stuff dragon onto the flight? Was floating around shortly after they were in orbit. So there is a wee little dragon flying around inside of the big dragon.
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Did anyone else notice they brought a small stuff dragon onto the flight? Was floating around shortly after they were in orbit. So there is a wee little dragon flying around inside of the big dragon.
Didn't they refer to it as their "zero gravity indicator"?
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Didn't they refer to it as their "zero gravity indicator"?
Indeed!
I question it's official status, but it seems good as any
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"Up, up the long delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,
where never lark, or even eagle, flew;
and, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
the high untrespassed sanctity of space,
put out my hand and touched the face of God."
Clipped the appropriate bit.
That was awesome to watch.
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Indeed!
I question it's official status, but it seems good as any
I think they said it was picked by one of the 'naut's kids.
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Less then 100M to go to the ISS now. Hopefully they don't ding it.
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Docking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CATOMgU22Nk
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huh. Space craft still have the red and green position lights. I wonder if the visibility arcs are adjusted?
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&%#! I left the keys at the Cape. Got to go back and get them.
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"After he opens his zipper"
Wait, what?
:rofl:
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1:02 p.m. EDT -- hatch open. Nothing seems to have blown up.
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Obama is probably unhappy.
He worked SO hard to take the USA out of space as part of his efforts to diminish this country, and here we are, resuming manned space flight under Trump.
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I can hear Karen screaming at her screen. "OMG! NO MASKS!!!! 6 FEET! 6 FEET!
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Obama is probably unhappy.
He worked SO hard to take the USA out of space as part of his efforts to diminish this country, and here we are, resuming manned space flight under Trump.
Wasn't 100% his fault there was no Shuttle replacement ready to go in 2011. Clinton, Bush, Congress, and NASA get the lion share of the blame there
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Wasn't 100% his fault there was no Shuttle replacement ready to go in 2011. Clinton, Bush, Congress, and NASA get the lion share of the blame there
I'll agree with you but they were retired earlier than necessary.
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I'll agree with you but they were retired earlier than necessary.
Shuttle was simply the wrong tech line to pursue. But the Right People got paid.
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Just watched The ISS go over
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Women and minorities harmed the most.
=D
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In case anyone was wondering why the live video feed of the booster landing on the droneship always cuts out.
Why does the SpaceX droneship camera cut out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH75bVG7HBo
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In case anyone was wondering why the live video feed of the booster landing on the droneship always cuts out.
Why does the SpaceX droneship camera cut out?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH75bVG7HBo
That's what they want you to believe [tinfoil]
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Yeah we all know it's the aliens.
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Did anyone else notice they brought a small stuff dragon onto the flight? Was floating around shortly after they were in orbit. So there is a wee little dragon flying around inside of the big dragon.
Too bad they didn't bring a couple of plastic dinosaurs.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.nZocFjgPA6tvjnkZHmM2-wHaFj%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
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Actually what I saw was a dinosaur
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Something NASA bitched about with the older Cargo Dragon spacecraft was the "new car smell" of new manufacturing, getting into the ISS.
Evidently the paint used was outgassing enough that it passed trace hydrocarbons to experiments both inside and outside the ISS, and even deposited a very faint film onto the cupola glass. I'm curious if SpaceX resolved this issue for the Crew Dragon craft.
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Something NASA bitched about with the older Cargo Dragon spacecraft was the "new car smell" of new manufacturing, getting into the ISS.
Evidently the paint used was outgassing enough that it passed trace hydrocarbons to experiments both inside and outside the ISS, and even deposited a very faint film onto the cupola glass. I'm curious if SpaceX resolved this issue for the Crew Dragon craft.
I could see where that could be a problem in a closed environment like the ISS
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Obama is probably unhappy.
He worked SO hard to take the USA out of space as part of his efforts to diminish this country, and here we are, resuming manned space flight under Trump.
As much as I hate Obama, he did do well by killing Ares.
Ares was basically a Space Shuttle era SRB as a single candle stack, with the Orion capsule on top of it.
SRB's are horrifically unsafe. No throttle control, FTS turns it into a poisonous highly flammable event that will likely damage parachutes on the crew capsule.
I'm eagerly awaiting to hear from these two Shuttle veterans, if the ride up on F9 with its liquid fueled engines, was smoother than the dual SRB ride on Shuttle. The acoustic environment of Shuttle was very demanding. They certainly looked quite comfortable during launch.
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The shuttle was originally meant to have liquid fuel boosters but budget cuts in the 70s forced them to switch to solids
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Space X is using Skinny Fuel.
(https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/bea/c68/24ccde7f424d6718c7c48328cc0bb9a849-space-force-recaps-ep-07.rsquare.w1200.jpg)
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Just watched a replay of the docking.
Really disappointed in how sloppy the design of the IDA came out. All those hoses all over the place, nobody took ducting and air cycle into account. And the door retention in the open position is underwhelming. Should be more out of the way.
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I'm eagerly awaiting to hear from these two Shuttle veterans, if the ride up on F9 with its liquid fueled engines, was smoother than the dual SRB ride on Shuttle. The acoustic environment of Shuttle was very demanding. They certainly looked quite comfortable during launch.
Spotted this on wiki
Launching in the Dragon 2 spacecraft was described by astronaut Bob Behnken as "smooth off the pad" but "we were definitely driving and riding a dragon all the way up... a little bit less g's [than the Space Shuttle] but more 'alive' is probably the best way I would describe it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_2
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Watched the June 3rd launch and the landing barge video didn't cut out during the booster landing so the cut out is hit or miss.
BTW: Love the names they give the barges (spaceport drone ship)
Of Course I Still Love You
Just Read The Instructions
Two more are under construction
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BTW: Love the names they give the barges (spaceport drone ship)
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Two more are under construction
That should be the name of the next one.
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On 23 January 2015, during repairs to the ship following the unsuccessful first test, Musk announced that the ship was to be named Just Read the Instructions,[11] with a sister ship planned for west coast launches to be named Of Course I Still Love You.[12] On 29 January, SpaceX released a manipulated photo of the ship with the name illustrating how it would look once painted.[13] Both ships are named after two General Contact Units, spaceships commanded by autonomous artificial intelligences, that appear in The Player of Games, a Culture novel by Iain M. Banks.[14]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_spaceport_drone_ship
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_spaceport_drone_ship
Ah. I had no idea about the book. Makes sense.
Still are great names, even without the context.
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Yeah I didn't either until I just came across that,
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Both ships are named after two General Contact Units, spaceships commanded by autonomous artificial intelligences, that appear in The Player of Games, a Culture novel by Iain M. Banks.
Love it.
(Not a huge reader of Ian M. Banks, but am familiar with The Culture universe.)
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The shuttle was originally meant to have liquid fuel boosters but budget cuts in the 70s forced them to switch to solids
A hugely expensive second launch facility was built on the left coast (politics) - and immediately mothballed. BIG hit to the budget.
A desire to "go green" caused the first shuttle disaster because NASA switched to an ecologically friendly insulating foam on the fuel tank.
And the jointed SRBs - rather than a solid tube - which caused the second disaster were inflicted on the shuttle, again due to politics.
NASA and politicians are a terrible mix when it comes to money AND science management.
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A hugely expensive second launch facility was built on the left coast (politics) - and immediately mothballed. BIG hit to the budget.
That was Vandenberg, correct?
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A hugely expensive second launch facility was built on the left coast (politics) - and immediately mothballed. BIG hit to the budget.
A desire to "go green" caused the first shuttle disaster because NASA switched to an ecologically friendly insulating foam on the fuel tank.
And the jointed SRBs - rather than a solid tube - which caused the second disaster were inflicted on the shuttle, again due to politics.
NASA and politicians are a terrible mix when it comes to money AND science management.
A hugely expensive second launch facility was built on the left coast (politics) - and immediately mothballed. BIG hit to the budget.
A desire to "go green" caused the first shuttle disaster because NASA switched to an ecologically friendly insulating foam on the fuel tank.
And the jointed SRBs - rather than a solid tube - which caused the second disaster were inflicted on the shuttle, again due to politics.
NASA and politicians are a terrible mix when it comes to money AND science management.
Yep, Vandenberg. One thing to note though is that launching from the West coast cuts down on payload capacity a bit.
You got the next two reversed. The 2nd shuttle disaster (Columbia) was cause by foam coming off the tank and striking the shuttle. The 1st (Challenger) was cause by a leaking joint on a booster.
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Vandy launches never go east. They always go south, for polar orbit. The big motivator for polar orbits is spy satellite deployment, to get full latitude observation.
You can't really do polar orbits from FL, because you overfly Cuba. Only recently have SpaceX and ULA offered FL based polar launches due to mass optimizations and new flight trajectories that avoid Cuba.
As such, Earth's rotational speed cannot aid in making orbit and you lose a small amount of peak efficiency for total payload. This is why the French launch from French Guiana in South America.
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Watched the June 3rd launch and the landing barge video didn't cut out during the booster landing so the cut out is hit or miss.
Explanation of why the video cuts out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH75bVG7HBo
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A hugely expensive second launch facility was built on the left coast (politics) - and immediately mothballed. BIG hit to the budget.
SLC6 was never mothballed. It launched titans and most recently deltas. It continues as one of vandenberg's active launch complexes AFAIK.
Edit: sorry, athena, not titans. Titan IVs spacelifted off slick 4.
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Vandy launches never go east. They always go south, for polar orbit. The big motivator for polar orbits is spy satellite deployment, to get full latitude observation.
You can't really do polar orbits from FL, because you overfly Cuba. Only recently have SpaceX and ULA offered FL based polar launches due to mass optimizations and new flight trajectories that avoid Cuba.
As such, Earth's rotational speed cannot aid in making orbit and you lose a small amount of peak efficiency for total payload. This is why the French launch from French Guiana in South America.
The big benefit is you can setup a precessing orbit that keeps the satellite always in sunlight. Continuous power is important when your radar mapping the earth. This amazing orbit also happens to be directly over the terminator of the day and night sides so any optical observation has wonderful shadows to help in height estimations, etc. Fun times.
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And... NASA astronauts Doug Hurley and Bob Behnken are back on Earth after a successful de-orbit, re-entry and splashdown. By all accounts they are in fine condition. There were some concerns about elevated propellant residual fume levels in the service section of the Endeavor spacecraft. They purged that area for about a half hour before the astronauts exited the spacecraft.
Lots of lookie-loos in private boats around the recovery craft, many actually getting too close and interfering with operations. One boat with a "Trump 2020" flag went sailing by in the foreground while the Spacex recovery fast boats were conducting their operations.
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I saw splash down, but didn't stick around for more than that. Good to see everything work out for them.
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I saw splash down, but didn't stick around for more than that. Good to see everything work out for them.
Me too. Was very glad to see everything function well. Looks like the U.S. back in the launching (people) business.
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Lots of lookie-loos in private boats around the recovery craft, many actually getting too close and interfering with operations. One boat with a "Trump 2020" flag went sailing by in the foreground while the Spacex recovery fast boats were conducting their operations.
Given Elon's apparent "red pill"-ing, are we sure that wasn't another SpaceX ship?
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Given Elon's apparent "red pill"-ing, are we sure that wasn't another SpaceX ship?
I'm sure it was a private craft not affiliated with Spacex. But it sure would have been a hoot if it had been a Spacex boat. :rofl:
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I guess they may as well keep the space suits on...
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The USS Private Enterprise (https://issuesinsights.com/2020/08/05/dragon/)