Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ned Hamford on January 31, 2020, 11:55:35 AM
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https://ryanandrewlangdon.wordpress.com/2020/01/28/today-i-learned-that-not-everyone-has-an-internal-monologue-and-it-has-ruined-my-day
So apparently about 4/5 folks think in the form of an internal monologue. While first amazed at the notion that many people are thinking at all, it did get me musing. Despite having the public speaking career, I do think that way. I typically hold a reality or concept map and navigate it. The idea of an internal monologue seems abhorrent to me. How could thinking like that not be absurdly linear and error prone ect. Multi tasking/tracking must be horrible. Lawyer Joke: How can you talk out of both sides of your mouth?
So, what/how do you think?
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I think in a narrative, when I read there is a voice in my head. I also usually have a 2nd or third thought train with a different voice going on. Sometimes I have a song or music also playing on top of that all. I think way faster than I can speak or type too, hence why I mistype a bunch or if we have a in person conversation I may say the end of the sentence before the first half. I can watch TV and read a book, and tell you about both if you ask a question. I can also see text in my thoughts at times on top of the verbal narrative.
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Yep. Inner monologue. And for some reason it's in second person when I'm daydreaming.
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This is where the NPC meme came from. There was a discovery awhile back that a good portion of the population do not have inner dialogues, possibly lacking personal agency and only reacting to exterior stimuli. It also points to a possibility that our reality might only be a simulation
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=58493.0
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My inner voice actually makes my day go faster if I have to do a routine task. If I have to do a task that I've done many times before and I'm at the point that it requires very little processing power, I can think about hobbies, or solve problems related to the outside, while I'm at work.
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Wow. I also had no idea some people literally can't talk to themselves. The article is only anecdotal, so I don't know how accurate it might be. I find it hard to believe some people have no internal monologue. Anything's possible though.
Somewhere along the line, I noticed that I am constantly internally verbalizing my thoughts. It helps when writing or trying to figure out how to talk to someone about something in particular. Otherwise, it's slow and clunky. For example, I'll think about going to the grocery store. The original thought includes a visualization of the location of the store, the layout of the store, what should go on my list, the fact that I need to remember to bring my wallet and whether it's in the jacket I'm planning to wear or on my dresser or whatever. It's a massively detailed and visual process, very nearly instantaneous. Then my monologue kicks in and starts narrating the thought, "I should look in the fridge to see what I need, my wallet is on my dresser, don't forget to put on pants . . . . " It's unnecessary, time-consuming, and can be exasperating. Which of course causes another line of thought along the lines of, "Why am I thinking this through? I've already got it all worked out. Ugh." So yeah, there's always at least one monologue running . . . .
I've often wondered what it would be like without the narrative. Nice and quiet I suppose . . . .
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I've often wondered what it would be like without the narrative. Nice and quiet I suppose . . . .
If the narrative isn't running, my brain runs the dreaded annoying song verse loop, which is not only difficult to turn off, but also quickly gives me a raging headache.
ETA: my wife who has ADHD says that I definitely have undiagnosed ADHD.
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Inner dialogues.
Sometimes insights just pop into my consciousness. I figure that comes from back of the house functions running in the background. Oftentimes they're insights related to patterns.
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If the narrative isn't running, my brain runs the dreaded annoying song verse loop, which is not only difficult to turn off, but also quickly gives me a raging headache.
ETA: my wife who has ADHD says that I definitely have undiagnosed ADHD.
My meditative practices are centered around not engaging with that monologue. It's peaceful. It only lasts a second or two, but at least it's peaceful for a second or two . . .
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Unless an MRI scan were to prove otherwise, my inner thought processes seem to be non-verbal. I'm well aware that I'm thinking all the time, daydreaming, or gaming out things I want to do, or whatnot, but it doesn't seem to be in the form of "talking to myself". At least I don't talk to my self so strongly that it feels as though that's what I'm doing. I can't 100% deny that I "think in words said to myself", but it doesn't feel like it, unless I'm doing what I'm doing now, and typing out a message or letter of some sort.
When I read fiction I just see or perceive the events unfolding in my mind, and generally once I'm into it I'm not consciously aware I'm reading at all. There's no narrator, myself or anyone else.
[Morgan Freeman]This was untrue, AJ Dual heard many different voices all day long, and they told him things like "Birds aren't real" and "The government spies on you through mattress tags"...[/Morgan Freeman] =D
One interesting thing that I do notice is that when I'm talking out loud, with, or to someone about a subject, I'll often have more notable eureka moments or insights that I don't have when I'm just thinking by myself alone. So I can tell that actually engaging my speech center makes me smarter, or again, this all being so subjective... or so it seems. [tinfoil]
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I'm sorry, are the voices in my head bothering you?
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Instant cognitive fail on the part of the author.
Literally the first person I asked was a classmate of mine who said that she can not “hear” her voice in her mind. I asked her if she could have a conversation with herself in her head and she looked at me funny like I was the weird one in this situation. So I began to become more intrigued. Most people I asked said that they have this internal monologue that is running rampant throughout the day. However, every once in a while, someone would say that they don’t experience this.
A "conversation" is a dialogue, not a monologue.
Over and out.
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Cogito, ergo sum
Sometimes I think my mind is like an internet browser. Way too many open tabs, at least two of them have crashed and I have no idea where the music is coming from.
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What the hell?? Your trying to tell me those voices are not real. Their my friends man. Come on. It’s not just me up there.
Damnit. I’m don’t wanna shut up.
I’m sorry can’t talk out loud right now.
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Cogito, ergo sum
Absolutely. The antithesis is also correct.
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At least half the time, I have the Meow Mix song going through my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTunhRVyREU
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At least half the time, I have the Meow Mix song going through my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTunhRVyREU
This was the one stuck in my head on Monday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdDwm3QIwfg
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I don't think at all. According to a former candidate for high office, I'm a deplorable subhuman who only seeks to minimize pain, enhance pleasure, and increase DNA.
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Most of my ideas pop into my head visually, as some have noted above. I also used to finish sentences from other people, aloud, until back in high school somebody advised me that was extremely annoying.
I also used to talk to myself aloud when alone, but sound carries, and I was advised to quit that, too. Quite some time ago I discovered that the internal monologue was pretty much stimulated at root by the visuals. I had to do quite a bit of introspection, a la Wilhelm Wundt, to discover this.
I also frequently have music running in the background. Sometimes it's banal earworms, like "Tutti Frutti" yesterday, and sometimes it's complete passages from more complex orchestral music.
(That's also why I credit animals with more intelligence than most people think... they "think" visually, aurally, and by smell and taste, but mostly can't communicate in detail verbally. I note that lately some people studying animal behavior have approached this idea.)
We had a lady where I used to work who had to be situated a little bit off in the boonies since she could not squash her verbalizations as she worked in her cubicle. They finally broke down and gave her a closed-door office as soon as one was available. "Like a fox," I thought, but actually kept my mouth shut.
For once.
Pterry, 230RN
REF (Long Tall Sally and Tutti Frutti):
https://vimeo.com/265741856
Now that's thinkin' with your feet. And knees. And sacrum. And upper body. And arms.
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As I'm not inside these other people's heads, I assume that I fall into the "inner monologue"/inner dialogue side.
Not sure how it would work otherwise. Of course, I am able to, for example, type this very message with the words I am typing in my head before they (comparatively slowly) come from my fingers, while at the same time analyzing the individuals walking outside my window.
The "monologue" is not the whole of my thought process. As others have noted, I will often have a song (or songs) playing in my head at the same time.
Additionally, as others note, I will also sometimes give up on a "problem" and have the answer pop up into my forethoughts some time later. (Often, I have purposely given up actively thinking about it knowing the answer will be worked on in the subprocesses.)
I can visualize things, and can call up images without words, if need be, but my thoughts tend to come in "audible" words. Memories, imaginings, visualizations come in either pictures, video, or audio.
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I would say inner monologue. I put my thoughts into words in my head and work through issues or questions as if I am voicing those thoughts to someone else (or myself). I don't answer. It is just a way of focusing my thoughts into meaning so I can move forward with it.
That reminds me of something I heard a long time ago. A pastor was talking about the need for good vocabulary. His thought was that a strong vocabulary allows you to think better. If you can put your thoughts into words and you know enough words to accurately reflect your thoughts with the proper meanings you can then express those thoughts better which leads to better and more complex thinking. If your vocabulary is limited, it makes it tougher to put your mind around more complex thinking or concepts.
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I have an interior monologue, but you probably don't want to hear it.
Unless an MRI scan were to prove otherwise, my inner thought processes seem to be non-verbal. I'm well aware that I'm thinking all the time, daydreaming, or gaming out things I want to do, or whatnot, but it doesn't seem to be in the form of "talking to myself". At least I don't talk to my self so strongly that it feels as though that's what I'm doing. I can't 100% deny that I "think in words said to myself", but it doesn't feel like it, unless I'm doing what I'm doing now, and typing out a message or letter of some sort.
Yeah, like that.
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If you have an interior monologue, who is talking and who is listening?
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If you have an interior monologue, who is talking and who is listening?
We are speaking and we are listening, we are one.
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Very interesting to me. I "think to myself" all day long. In fact it's hard to get my internal monologue to shut up. :laugh:
It's hard for me to imagine reading a book without thinking the words. I can't for the life of me figure out how you would even read without "thinking" the words as you read.
When I do yoga, I finish with a couple of minutes of "block out all thought" meditation, and it's always incredibly hard for me to get to that point. I often have to just settle on one simple thought.
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Cogito, ergo sum
Absolutely. The antithesis is also correct.
Which antithesis, "I think, therefore I am not," or "I don't think, therefore I am"?
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When I do yoga, I finish with a couple of minutes of "block out all thought" meditation, and it's always incredibly hard for me to get to that point. I often have to just settle on one simple thought.
That's the point of the mantra in TM.
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Kind a Smeagol/Gollum banter for me.
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Absolutely. The antithesis is also correct.
Which antithesis, "I think, therefore I am not," or "I don't think, therefore I am"?
I thunk therefore I were
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As a friend of mine who happens to be a Shrink once told me; "It's ok if you have several different voices in your head, as long as you don't start giving them different names."
When I do things that involve body parts and tools, there is actually nothing going on in my mind...That's probably why there is also pain and blood involved.
When I'm reading the narrative is being verbalized in my head. According to my wife, if the house was burning down while I was reading, I wouldn't notice.
I also have had tinnitus for many years. That does override just about everything else, except when I read.
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A worthy read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel))
The exploration of consciousness is the central thematic element of Blindsight.[7][8][9] The title of the novel refers to the condition blindsight, in which vision is non-functional in the conscious brain but remains useful to non-conscious action.[10] Other conditions, such as Cotard delusion and Anton–Babinski syndrome, are used to illustrate differences from the usual assumptions about conscious experience.[10] The novel raises questions about the essential character of consciousness. Is the interior experience of consciousness necessary, or is externally observed behavior the sole determining characteristic of conscious experience?[7][8][10] Is an interior emotional experience necessary for empathy, or is empathic behavior sufficient to possess empathy?[10][11] Relevant to these questions is a plot element near the climax of the story, in which the vampire captain is revealed to have been controlled by the ship's artificial intelligence for the entirety of the novel.[10][12]
Philosopher John Searle's Chinese room thought experiment is used as a metaphor to illustrate the tension between the notions of consciousness as an interior experience of understanding, as contrasted with consciousness as the emergent result of merely functional non-introspective components.[7][10][12] Blindsight contributes to this debate by implying that some aspects of consciousness are empirically detectable.[8] Specifically, the novel supposes that consciousness is necessary for both aesthetic appreciation[8][9][11] and for effective communication.[8] However, the possibility is raised that consciousness is, for humanity, an evolutionary dead end.[7][10][11][12] That is, consciousness may have been naturally selected as a solution for the challenges of a specific place in space and time, but will become a limitation as conditions change or competing intelligences are encountered.[8]
The alien creatures encountered by the crew of the Theseus themselves lack consciousness.[7][8][11][13] The necessity of consciousness for effective communication is illustrated by a passage from the novel in which the linguist realizes that the alien creatures can't be, in fact, conscious because of their lack of semantic understanding:
full text (https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm)
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What the hell?? Your trying to tell me those voices are not real. Their my friends man. Come on. It’s not just me up there.
Damnit. I’m don’t wanna shut up.
I’m sorry can’t talk out loud right now.
When the voices are quiet, you need to be careful, they're planning something.
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4 out of 5 voices in my head are telling me to plead the 5th on this question. The 1 is currently in a time out corner
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That's the point of the mantra in TM.
Yeah, but I'm wondering if people without thought bubbles have to do that. :)
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When the voices are quiet, you need to be careful, they're planning something.
Well, either that...or Thomas Magnum is dead .... >:D [popcorn]
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Absolutely. The antithesis is also correct.
Which antithesis, "I think, therefore I am not," or "I don't think, therefore I am"?
I don't think therefore I don't exist.
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(https://i.imgur.com/Fkyinvs.jpg)
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I don't think at all. According to a former candidate for high office, I'm a deplorable subhuman who only seeks to minimize pain, enhance pleasure, and increase DNA.
Did the candidate relate to you because you were like him or did he consider himself to be a thinker?
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I have that internal monologue, with background music, and hot chicks dancing throughout my brain. I have ADD as a result of all the distractions. My only saving grace is writing because, when my thoughts drift, I can look back at what I've written and get back on track. A good intelligent conversation will keep my thoughts on track - well, maybe on topic! :old:
I have a problem with people who's internal monologue is directly linked to their mouth.
Woody
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I don't inner monolog...
I inner soliloquy...