Author Topic: Iraq pullout?  (Read 12476 times)

wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2011, 09:44:18 AM »
Trust me when I say this.  We are leaving.  Yes there will be State Department contractors there doing the training and other duties but they won't be military.  The only military will be involve with Embassy duty.  Too much at stake without the imunity from the Iraqi government to leave anyone else there.
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Jamisjockey

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2011, 10:17:06 AM »
Trust me when I say this.  We are leaving.  Yes there will be State Department contractors there doing the training and other duties but they won't be military.  The only military will be involve with Embassy duty.  Too much at stake without the imunity from the Iraqi government to leave anyone else there.

This.  The Iraqis want us out. 
 They have for several years, even before the election. 
Obama is just capitalizing on this fact, that most people don't remember the Iraqis asking us to make an exit plan several years ago.
JD

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wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2011, 10:29:02 AM »
What is interesting is that this plan was in place in 2008.  Who was President in 2008 and why does this one take all the credit? :facepalm: [barf]

Like he is taking credit for getting Gadaffi, really? :facepalm:
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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RaspberrySurprise

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2011, 11:32:22 PM »
What is interesting is that this plan was in place in 2008.  Who was President in 2008 and why does this one take all the credit? :facepalm: [barf]

Like he is taking credit for getting Gadaffi, really? :facepalm:

Because the average American has a ten second memory for most things.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2011, 06:50:44 AM »
Because the average American has a ten second memory for most things.

So, who do you like in the series?
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Dannyboy

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2011, 11:25:43 AM »
What exactly happens to all the million-dollar bases over there? Do we pack up our razor wire and sandbags, or leave it to Iraqis, AC and all? I have no idea what procedure is with these things.

Most of the vehicles/important/expensive things are already gone or are on their way back.  We are leaving millions of dollars worth of other stuff, though.  Some being left to DoS people some to the Iraqis, and I think even some stuff to contractors.  Don't quote me on that last part though, I read that article about a month back.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2011, 03:24:07 PM »
What was left would have cost more to ship back than what it is worth.  What was left to the Iraqis was "sold" to them.  State Dept and contractors staying behind to train also got some of the gear.  But a lot of stuff is still on its way out and it is a non-stop parade.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

longeyes

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #32 on: October 25, 2011, 04:22:21 PM »
I don't believe for a Noo Yak minute we are leaving.  Especially since the real reason for our war was to place the US squarely in the middle of the most unstable region on the planet.  The whole purpose was to allow projection of US military power inland.  Camo military may leave but "contractors" will remain.

That may have been the original (Fort Baghad et al.) plan, but it doesn't appear to be the plan of the current regime. 
"Domari nolo."

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RevDisk

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #33 on: October 25, 2011, 10:33:53 PM »
Iraq and Iran are allies? I must have missed the NYT that day. What edition was it?

Partially correct, actually.

The Iraqi Shiites and Iranians are allies.  The Iraqi Sunni, who treated Iraqi Shiites very badly for a long time, are not allies with Iran.  The Kurds will cut a deal to any side for an independent in all but name Kurdistan.  Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if the Iranians cut a deal to either formally recognize Kurdistan or maybe even cede some or all of Iranian Kurdistan in exchange for Kurdish support or neutrality in an Iranian invasion/liberation of *expletive deleted*it occupied Iraq.

It's basically already happening and has been for a while. 
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longeyes

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #34 on: October 25, 2011, 10:58:15 PM »
For all the high-priced State Dept. and CIA talent we allegedly have, we seem to lack people who are capable of grasping tribalism in action.  Seems remarkably odd to me; seems suspect.
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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RevDisk

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2011, 11:10:03 PM »
For all the high-priced State Dept. and CIA talent we allegedly have, we seem to lack people who are capable of grasping tribalism in action.  Seems remarkably odd to me; seems suspect.

a) The people that make policy don't tend to like dealing with scruffy locals.
b) The people that can deal with the scruffy locals are hated by the desk weenies and ignored.
c) The desk weenies believe they know better, because they are in a lofty position and will override the field folks. 

Happens all the time. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

LadySmith

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2011, 11:59:18 PM »
Because the average American has a ten second memory for most things.

I'm sorry to say that this is me.
When it was about bringing Osama to justice, I was all  =D.
But when we made a detour for Saddam, I was like  =|.
And after that I was  ???.
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longeyes

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2011, 12:27:05 AM »
a) The people that make policy don't tend to like dealing with scruffy locals.
b) The people that can deal with the scruffy locals are hated by the desk weenies and ignored.
c) The desk weenies believe they know better, because they are in a lofty position and will override the field folks. 

Happens all the time. 

Well, these desk weenies--and I assume you mean to include Obama and Hillary et al.--are going to get us killed...
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

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roo_ster

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2011, 11:01:14 AM »
Well, these desk weenies--and I assume you mean to include Obama and Hillary et al.--are going to get us killed...

But not until they are out of office and sitting pretty in their sinecure at Goldman-Sachs.
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roo_ster

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longeyes

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2011, 12:10:45 PM »
+1
"Domari nolo."

Thug: What you lookin' at old man?
Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

longeyes

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2011, 05:53:53 PM »
Listen, the war is in good hands...well, not good exactly, let's say sensitive...

Here's what's going on in Afghanistan thanks to our sensitive regime.

http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1933/US-Marines-No-Spitting-Toward-Mecca.aspx

"US Marines: No Spitting Toward Mecca
OCT
25
Written by: Diana West
Tuesday, October 25, 2011 1:47 AM  


Gen. David Petraeus, Col. David Furness, and Shafiq Mubarak (far right). Mubarak served as Furness's "right hand" during a recent deployment. "I can't do anything without him," Furness said.

And who is Shafiq Mubarak? All I can find out is that he is a Pro Sol contractor (?) hired by the Marine Corps Center for Advanced Operational Culture Learning to help implement "the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan, the winning of hearts and minds." At least that's how Col. Furness puts it. According to the North County Times, Mubarak didn't come to the US until 2008 -- from where the story doesn't say -- but has been working with US troops in A-stan "for much of the past decade."

How is that? Why is that? Dunno. What the story does report is that Mubarak teaches the do's and don't's of sharia -- kind of, Islam for Leathernecks.

Mubarak teaches US Marines:

Don't spit toward Mecca.

Don't urinate toward Mecaa.

Don't sleep with your boots toward Mecca.

In other words, Mubarak teaches US Marines to become intensely sensitized to the whereabouts of Mecca, and to be guided by that magnetic North for Muslims as a matter of the most personal habits and hygiene -- in accordance with sharia (Islamic law). This goes well, of course, with ISAF's guidance to all troops to revere the Koran and its teachings.

What next, prayer rugs?

Mubarak told the North County Times:

"We can't win just by fighting," said Mubarak, who came to the U.S. less than three years ago after working with American forces in Afghanistan for much of the past decade. "Sitting with tribal elders, learning their problems and helping them is crucial."

Crucial to what? Solving the problems of one set of tribal elders. Such problems, of course, are likely to differ  from those of the next set of tribal elders, particularly when there is a blood feud, a la al-Hatfields and al-McCoys. Talk about tar babies. To coin a phrase: You Don't Win Hearts and Minds by Losing Your Own.

Meanwhile:

Mubarak and Tremore spent hours walking troops through the nuances of meetings, or "shuras" with key local leaders. Both stressed the importance of those meetings. ...

Mubarak taught the troops the proper way to sit during a shura. He told them they should plan on at least 30 minutes for an initial meeting, and that they should always finish their tea and eat any food presented.

And that includes all the intestinal parasites.

"If you don't, that means to them that you don't trust them, or think what they are giving you is poison or is unclean," he said.

Mubarak also said the Marines should never spit or urinate to the west, the direction of Mecca that Muslims in Afghanistan face when they pray.

In addition, when sharing a base with Afghan army troops, Marines shouldn't sleep with their feet pointed west, because that also is considered offensive, he said.

Afghan compounds of tribal elders are always neutral ground, Mubarak said. There is no need to wear protective vests, because the custom is that any person inside the compound will have the full protection of the Afghans who live there.

Mubarek said that when Marine Col. David Furness led Camp Pendleton's Regimental Combat Team 1 during a recent deployment,  Furness was able to win over 200 tribal families through shuras. What began as a violent deployment ended with little shooting, Mubarak said.

At what cost? That is, in exchange for what baksheesh, what edge over the next tribe, what amounts of money or local public works projects? We don't know. How permanent this little piece of shura-peace is, we don't know, either. But it all impressed Col. Furness, who gave a service award to Mubarak in June 2011 on behalf of the Regimental Combat Team - 1st Marines (RCT-1) CULAD. In the presence of Gen. Petraeus, Col. Furness said:

"General, this is my cultural advisor, Mr. Shafiq Mubarak. Mr. Shafiq is my right hand and I can't do anything without him. Mr. Shafiq directly assists in direct engagements with Afghan leaders and political decision makers. He has been instrumental in the pursuit of the U.S. strategy in Afghanistan, the winning of hearts and minds.

Or, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."
"Domari nolo."

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Walt Kowalski: Ever notice how you come across somebody once in a while you shouldn't have messed with? That's me.

Molon Labe.

wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 10:25:43 AM »
That is the first I have heard about don't do all those things towards Mecca.  Hell maybe I need to go out of my way to make sure that I do that now.  Lets see, Mecca is which way? >:D
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

brimic

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 02:06:03 PM »
Quote
Mubarak teaches US Marines:

Don't spit toward Mecca.

Don't urinate toward Mecaa.

Don't sleep with your boots toward Mecca.


I'll have to pass this info along to my cousin who is an architect :laugh:
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makattak

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 02:18:45 PM »
That is the first I have heard about don't do all those things towards Mecca.  Hell maybe I need to go out of my way to make sure that I do that now.  Lets see, Mecca is which way? >:D

East, and then, depending on where you are in the US, anywhere from slightly south to significantly south. (Unless you're in HI, then it's slightly north. Of course, in HI or AK, it might be closer to look West.)
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wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 04:52:47 PM »
East, and then, depending on where you are in the US, anywhere from slightly south to significantly south. (Unless you're in HI, then it's slightly north. Of course, in HI or AK, it might be closer to look West.)

Well since I'm in Kuwait just NW of Kuwait City, Mecca would be SW of me right now.

Oh gee my soles are facing that way right now. >:D
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Perd Hapley

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 11:30:22 PM »
Well since I'm in Kuwait just NW of Kuwait City, Mecca would be SW of me right now.

Oh gee my soles are facing that way right now. >:D

Been nice knowin' ya.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #46 on: October 28, 2011, 01:58:23 AM »
Been nice knowin' ya.

Why you say that.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier.  One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

Bacon is the candy bar of meats!

Only the dead have seen the end of war!

Jamisjockey

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Re: Iraq pullout?
« Reply #47 on: October 28, 2011, 08:21:20 AM »
For all the high-priced State Dept. and CIA talent we allegedly have, we seem to lack people who are capable of grasping tribalism in action.  Seems remarkably odd to me; seems suspect.

Occam's razor.  What seems like a complicated conspiracy is just governmental incompetence in action.

JD

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