Author Topic: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews  (Read 12595 times)

French G.

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2016, 06:56:54 PM »
So now who gets the bigger hammer? The guy who chucked the Code of Conduct out the porthole or his *expletive deleted*che comrade who is now known by the whole world to have worn white socks in uniform?  [popcorn]
AKA Navy Joe   

I'm so contrarian that I didn't respond to the thread.

dogmush

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2016, 07:01:50 PM »
In the Coast Guard (and Army too, I was an 88K) we use these things called "knots" or "bends".  You can join several mooring lines together and use that as a tow line. 

Yeah, but having tried to tow with the 5/8" nylon squids use as mooring lines, I know better.

Where and when were you a Kilo?  I'm in 880A1 right now.  Been an LCU2000 Boatswain for a while before I went to the dark side.

dm1333

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2016, 07:51:56 PM »
I was in the Navy from 1984 to 1988.  When I left active duty I wanted to join the reserves.  The nearest Navy Reserve center was 50 miles away.  Less than 10 miles away was an Army Reserve unit with LARC 60's.  I went and watched a drill one Saturday.  After driving the LARC around we cruised up and down the beach looking for college girls to offer boat rides to, I figured this was better than what the Navy had to offer.  I went to AIT in 1989.  After the Gulf War the Army stopped enlistments for prior service personnel (I wanted to go into intell and then to OCS) so I took my degree and joined the Coast Guard.

I struck BM and was applying to OCS when the flight surgeon figured out that I was trying to cheat my way through the eye exam and he squashed my dream of becoming a helicopter pilot.  I had already completed my Surfman pqs and figured that was way better than being a non pilot officer in the CG so I withdrew my OCS application.  The detailer helped me with that decision by voluntolding me into another surf station assignment and that set me onto a very narrow career path.  I wanted to spend a lot more time on cutters but being a surfman has been pretty cool.  This summer I go through the assignment process again, I may retire in 2017 or take one more tour and then retire in 2020.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2016, 08:50:39 PM »
Well, Occam's razor comes through again. :)

So ... incompetence it is, then?
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txgho1911

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2016, 09:06:16 PM »
Several pics posted of all the gun mounts are clear. Wondering if they scuttled hardware.
If there was any intel ops or top secret comms gear on board wouldn't they dump that also?
Odd thought I had was this a setup and yes we are talking about himself.
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Jocassee

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2016, 11:07:43 PM »
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Ben

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2016, 12:29:07 AM »
Hognose weighs in

http://weaponsman.com/?p=28693

From the photos, the most embarrassing part of the whole debacle is that they were captured by a little Boston Whaler knockoff.
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2016, 01:42:20 AM »
Any bets that their ROE strictly prohibited them from even token defensive posturing?
He'll they probably didn't have permission to swat flies if there was any possibility they were Iranian flies.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2016, 07:54:34 AM »
Any bets that their ROE strictly prohibited them from even token defensive posturing?

No bet. That's pretty much a given.
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RevDisk

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2016, 08:31:04 AM »

While I'm glad we got our sailors back, if commo or other sensitive gear was not destroyed, they all need court martial. At a minimum, folks need retraining on conduct while being a prisoner of a foreign country. I'm quite sure the ROE was essentially "don't fire under any circumstances".

John Kerry's apology is embarassing, but not a surprise there.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2016, 11:36:13 AM »
This whole ordeal is embarrassing on so many levels that I'm not sure where to begin.

Issues I have is the amount of security breaches that have come out while Obama has been in office.
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Jocassee

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2016, 12:27:01 PM »
From the photos, the most embarrassing part of the whole debacle is that they were captured by a little Boston Whaler knockoff.

Could be there was a larger boat sitting out of the frame.
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dogmush

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2016, 12:36:12 PM »
For the NCO's out there:


Ben

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2016, 01:07:12 PM »
Could be there was a larger boat sitting out of the frame.

At this point I'm going to go with Revdisk's Razor and they're going to have to prove it. :)

I'd be interested in the opinions of our mil boat guys here regarding a few of the comments at the hognose site. Specifically about the untrained / undisciplined crews for the current missions on these boats. The couple of comments about it there sounded like they were reasonable and from guys in the know, but it's the Internet, so I'd be interested in the opinions of trusted experts here.
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dogmush

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2016, 01:37:41 PM »
I'd be interested in the opinions of our mil boat guys here regarding a few of the comments at the hognose site. Specifically about the untrained / undisciplined crews for the current missions on these boats. The couple of comments about it there sounded like they were reasonable and from guys in the know, but it's the Internet, so I'd be interested in the opinions of trusted experts here.

There's not a whole lot I am going to say about the specific's on that blog.  There's definitely some open pondering about issues of OPSEC, and current Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures used by our forces in the gulf. That's reasonably important to me, as I go there frequently.  Here's what I will say, based on what I've personally seen and done in that AO, and near Farsi Island.

1. A breakdown is plausible.  Stuff happens even to well maintained equipment.  Why they were't towing is a question, but not automatically stupid.
2. Those are Riverine Patrol Boats.  They regularly patrol and transit that area.
3. I keep seeing that the boats "dropped off the scopes".  That is a media mistake, like automatic assault weapon. We (the US Navy) knows exactly where those boats were.
4. The Iranians are touchy and weird about their "Territorial waters", and do sometimes change them with no notice.
5. The US does not just put small craft out in the Persian Gulf willy nilly. The only thing that smells funny to me about this situation is lack of US support.  I can get (if I need it) armed air support anywhere in the Persian Gulf, just for the asking, in minutes.  I almost wonder if those boats had done something stupid (like run out of fuel) and were trying to keep it from the command, so that they didn't ask for help until it was too late.  I also wonder if they, not thinking, said some stupid *expletive deleted*it in the clear, on VHF, that would have made them seem like easy targets.
6. It's not suspicious that the Iranians had a film crew.  We routinly film them, and they us, at every opportunity.

HeroHog

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2016, 02:08:08 PM »
http://conservativetribune.com/defense-secretary-slips-up/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TPNNPages&utm_content=2016-01-14&utm_campaign=manualpost

“I understand that (Secretary of State) John Kerry has indicated, look, when he got word, he and Ash Carter called the Iranians to help take care of our Navy guys, because they had some mechanical problems,” Gohmert said.

WTFF?!?!
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KD5NRH

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2016, 02:18:25 PM »
Apparently the Iranians kept the GPS/nav equipment, but the US quoted source said it was no big deal,

Of course; the unnamed spokesman isn't paying for the gear.

IMO, the real question brass should be asking is "does the nav gear cost more than a frickin' tow line?"

dogmush

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2016, 02:34:00 PM »
http://conservativetribune.com/defense-secretary-slips-up/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TPNNPages&utm_content=2016-01-14&utm_campaign=manualpost

“I understand that (Secretary of State) John Kerry has indicated, look, when he got word, he and Ash Carter called the Iranians to help take care of our Navy guys, because they had some mechanical problems,” Gohmert said.

WTFF?!?!

That did not happen. 

Even if engine troubles were a CCIR (Commander's Critical Information Requirement.  Basically a list of *expletive deleted*it you wake the boss up for) at the SECDEF level, unless he and the Iranians are Facebook friends Sec Carter isn't getting in touch with the Iranian Navy before 5th Fleet has those guys back.  We'd sortie a *expletive deleted*ing Blackhawk from Arifjan and scuttle the boats before we called for help like that.

Prediction:  Someone in DC, who doesn't know how *expletive deleted*it works, decided to tey to spin this.  "Der!  It wouldn't have been an embarrassment if we asked for their assistance. Der! Let's make that the story....unless there's a Youtube Vid......No, OK we asked for help then." and they put that out before asking anyone if it was possible, plausible, or a good idea.

Scout26

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2016, 02:37:43 PM »
IIRC, I thought I recently read something where for the first time in a metric buttload of years, we don't have a carrier in Gulf.

Also the Iranians get it that Obama and Kerry are weak tea, and not stand up to any provocation.  I'd bet this was a test.

A couple of other things relating to our side:
Was no one monitoring where these boats were ?  And then getting on the horn saying "Hey guys, it looks like you've stopped moving and are drifting dangerously close to Iranian Terrtorial Waters, do you need some help?"   "Hey, heads up guys, looks like there's some Iranian boats headed your way."

I would guess that these boats operate in twos for mutual support.  Just in case something like this happens.  Wouldn't an early step of breakdown procedures be "Notify Higher and Request Help."    And there isn't a way for one to tow the other if need be.   And yes, Military things break often at the worst time and in groups.  I would think that Step 1 of "Both Boats Break" would be "Fire off an SOS to Higher RFN."

I'd really want to read the AAR of this incident, because it sounds like a flustercluck all up and down the CoC. (The one I go and beat you with to show who's in ruttin' command.)
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wmenorr67

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2016, 02:37:50 PM »
That did not happen. 

Even if engine troubles were a CCIR (Commander's Critical Information Requirement.  Basically a list of *expletive deleted*it you wake the boss up for) at the SECDEF level, unless he and the Iranians are Facebook friends Sec Carter isn't getting in touch with the Iranian Navy before 5th Fleet has those guys back.  We'd sortie a *expletive deleted*ing Blackhawk from Arifjan and scuttle the boats before we called for help like that.

Prediction:  Someone in DC, who doesn't know how *expletive deleted*it works, decided to tey to spin this.  "Der!  It wouldn't have been an embarrassment if we asked for their assistance. Der! Let's make that the story....unless there's a Youtube Vid......No, OK we asked for help then." and they put that out before asking anyone if it was possible, plausible, or a good idea.

I would agree some polcritter tried to spin this and CYA and it didn't work out.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2016, 02:39:28 PM »
IIRC, I thought I recently read something where for the first time in a metric buttload of years, we don't have a carrier in Gulf.

Also the Iranians get it that Obama and Kerry are weak tea, and not stand up to any provocation.  I'd bet this was a test.

A couple of other things relating to our side:
Was no one monitoring where these boats were ?  And then getting on the horn saying "Hey guys, it looks like you've stopped moving and are drifting dangerously close to Iranian Terrtorial Waters, do you need some help?"   "Hey, heads up guys, looks like there's some Iranian boats headed your way."

I would guess that these boats operate in twos for mutual support.  Just in case something like this happens.  Wouldn't an early step of breakdown procedures be "Notify Higher and Request Help."    And there isn't a way for one to tow the other if need be.   And yes, Military things break often at the worst time and in groups.  I would think that Step 1 of "Both Boats Break" would be "Fire off an SOS to Higher RFN."

I'd really want to read the AAR of this incident, because it sounds like a flustercluck all up and down the CoC. (The one I go and beat you with to show who's in ruttin' command.)

If Clinton still was Sec of State it would already be on her server.
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Scout26

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2016, 02:57:50 PM »
Maybe we could get Rev to work his Eastern European contacts and get us a copy of all of Clintons e-mails...  I would be that Putin has seen them all...
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Sweet memories to drive us on,
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Jocassee

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2016, 02:59:02 PM »
http://conservativetribune.com/defense-secretary-slips-up/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=TPNNPages&utm_content=2016-01-14&utm_campaign=manualpost

“I understand that (Secretary of State) John Kerry has indicated, look, when he got word, he and Ash Carter called the Iranians to help take care of our Navy guys, because they had some mechanical problems,” Gohmert said.

As Dogmush said, there is no way in HELL this happened. IF this is the unofficial/official line from State, then it's yet another case of the Obama administration pathologically lying where none is needed.
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dogmush

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2016, 03:22:58 PM »
IIRC, I thought I recently read something where for the first time in a metric buttload of years, we don't have a carrier in Gulf.

A couple of other things relating to our side:
Was no one monitoring where these boats were ?  And then getting on the horn saying "Hey guys, it looks like you've stopped moving and are drifting dangerously close to Iranian Terrtorial Waters, do you need some help?"   "Hey, heads up guys, looks like there's some Iranian boats headed your way."

I would guess that these boats operate in twos for mutual support.  Just in case something like this happens.  Wouldn't an early step of breakdown procedures be "Notify Higher and Request Help."    And there isn't a way for one to tow the other if need be.   And yes, Military things break often at the worst time and in groups.  I would think that Step 1 of "Both Boats Break" would be "Fire off an SOS to Higher RFN."

I'd really want to read the AAR of this incident, because it sounds like a flustercluck all up and down the CoC. (The one I go and beat you with to show who's in ruttin' command.)

Truman's in the gulf.

The US routinely monitors all traffic in the gulf, as well as position of all US Military craft underway.  We also maintain voice coms with all US Military vessels transiting in the gulf.
It's likely that SOP is indeed to tell either 5th Fleet, or Task Force 75 (the CVN's Group) as soon as you are disabled.
Admitting your boat is disabled is likely a bad career move in the USN, If one thought they could get it making way quickly SOP's have been stretched in the past.
US Military craft routinely pass (or did as of last week) within a handful of nautical miles of water the Iranians claim.


KD5NRH

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Re: Breaking - Iran Holding Two US Navy Boats, Detains Crews
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2016, 04:00:17 PM »
US Military craft routinely pass (or did as of last week) within a handful of nautical miles of water the Iranians claim.

Yes, but how many minutes' drift?  If they really thought they could get it restarted, there should have been a point in there somewhere when they realized that wasn't going to happen.  The fact that they not only drifted into territorial waters but apparently also ran aground while adrift screams that something was going badly wrong.  I'd think even without any sort of bumpers, nudging the disabled boat would be seen as better than grounding.