We all need to learn CPR....

[allmons]

Had a relatively young man ( 40-ish) come to my ER tonight. He had chest pain and "fell out" - his two teen sons had performed CPR at home. When EMS got there they were able to intubate ( for airway maintenance ) and shock him into a heart rhythm he COULD live with.

Made me start wondering how many of us are comfortable with CPR? I am, because it's been part of my job for 30+ years, but what would you do if the guy next to you at the shooting range collapsed tomorrow? These two teens saved their dad's life, no question.

We need to get AED ( automated defibrillators ) at EVERY range and we all need to learn how to save a life. Any thoughts?

[onions!]

Frankly,though I agree that it's an excellent idea & wouldn't hesitate to perform CPR on either a close family member or trusted friend,I would hesitate to do so on a complete stranger.

Good Samaritan laws not withstanding,I'd have to be in that situation before I could honestly make a choice that could negatively impact my families future.

I let my cert. lapse in part for fear of being sued.

[AmbulanceDriver]

41mag, here's the beauty of Good Sam laws....

As long as:

A) you are acting in good faith (I.E. you genuinely believed that this individual needed emergency CPR in order to save his life)

and

B)  you are not acting outside of your training;

and

C)  you have a currently valid CPR card

You have a definitive defense against being sued.  Yes, they can still try to sue you.  And their suit would be tossed out based on the Good Samaritan Law. 

Now, for example, you think this guy is choking and decided to do a crichothyrotomy on him with a pocket knife and a bic pen because you saw it on TV once (or you stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night), well, then you're s*** outta luck.....

[SomeKid]

I have to know and keep a current CPR license (requirement of Nursing school).

My instructor for the CPR class made a damn good point regarding using CPR on strangers. NEVER obligate yourself to help unless you are comfortable. His example went something like this...

You see a crowd of people at the mall, and someone shouting for help, so you go running up declaring that you know CPR and can help. You have now obligated yourself to help this person, and cannot abandon them. You get closer, and realize it is a bum, who is coughing red crap up and looks like he is has more diseases than humans have cataloged. Don't you wish you had assessed the situation beforehand, and maybe kept your mouth shut? Remember, you have no obligation to help people just because you have this little CPR card, it is something you can do if you wish.

Good points as far as I was concerned. I will not perform CPR unless I know the person I am swapping spit with is clean, or I care enough about them to risk it.

Lawsuits acutally do not worry me, mainly since I would have no problem never becoming involved directly with someone sketchy. I will gladly dial 911 and report it, but no way am I going to endanger myself for a stranger. The first rule of CPR is to make sure you do not become a casualty yourself.

[allmons]

Actually, the new CPR guidelines do NOT call for mouth to mouth anymore. The reasoning is that the chest compressions cause a negative pressure in the lungs and enough oxygen is inhaled to satisfy brain and heart requirements. The new emphasis is on strong, rapid chest compressions.

As noted above, as long as you perform basic CPR, Good Samaritan laws protect you. Don't ever try to be a doctor in those situations, of course.

I guess I've been doing this too long - I can't pass up someone in distress.

[SomeKid]

all,

We had that debate a while back. When i got re-certified, we were told to do 30 comps / 2 breaths. Maybe they changed since my class, but I do what I was trained to do.

Unless this changed as well, the CPR guidelines are written by cardiologists. (IMHO) They tend to focus more on giving enough compressions so that blood is flowing than on getting oxygen into the lungs.

Either way, I don't perform CPR unless I have a good reason to place myself at risk. Keeps it simple for me.

[Gewehr98]

I did CPR training every year for the last 25 years.  I weathered the Red Cross/American Heart Association tiff, the compression/breath/no breath/head tilt/chin lift switcharoo series, the Heimlich/stomach thrust fiasco, and took it all a few steps further with Self-Aid/Buddy Care and Field Medicine. I packed one of those face isolator funnel doobers in my helmet bag for several years.

Doc says you're gonna die.  Bummer. You won't be needing those shoes, will ya? 

[mountainclmbr]

As a sometimes climbing instructor, I am required to maintain a Red Cross and internal Mountain Rescue certification. I have used it in traffic accidents. It really should be tought in school.

[charby]

I have my BCLS.  The 30:2 was weird for me to get used to from the 15:2 that has been ingrained in me for so long.


If you are going to hang the defib packs at the work place then everyone needs to get their BCLS so they know how to use them, they are getting better at being more dummy friendly but you still need a class on how and when to use them.

[SomeKid]

Charby,

What defibs are you using? Ours could be used by a retarded ogre! It literally tells you what to do, and has pictures to show where to place the pads. While I agree, having a run in a classroom is a great idea, it is far from needed to know how and when to use. Our machines won't shock the person if it doesn't want to. You cannot override it.

[charby]

somekid

yeah I would agree that they are orge proof, I wasn't worried about the machine shocking someone but more worried about proper placement of the pads and not touch the person who is coding while the machine is shocking the heart.

-C

[roo_ster]

I have been certified at various times over the years, never in adjoining years.

Never has the technique been the same as was taught me before. 

This does not instill confidence in a student.

[WeedWhacker]

Never has the technique been the same as was taught me before.

This does not instill confidence in a student.

Techniques are refined over time and use. I don't see too many healthy people lining up to volunteer to have strangers compress their chests for them. Also, chest compressions on mice usually don't end well for the mice.

[Snowdog]

My previous job required me to maintain annual Red Cross CPR certification (9 years) and I recall the ratio of breaths/compressions changing at least twice.  My certification expired in 2005 and my wife (RN in post-op dept) informs me it's no longer the 15:1 compressions/breaths with 2nd cycle pulse check that I was taught during my last certification.

I suspect the results wouldn't be catastrophically different if someone were to apply a slightly outdated CPR technique during an emergency situation.  I'd imagine outdated CPR is better than no CPR.

[uvakat]

Last time I re certified it was 30:2 through AHA. I run volunteer EMS so I've done CPR between the time the guidelines changed and everybody got retrained. We were told to do whatever we were taught at our last recert. Also whoever is lead on the call can determine which ratio to use.


I agree with somkid. The AEDs I've seen that are in public use are pretty much dummy proof (Now I"m saying this realizing full well that somebody can screw it up).

As for doing CPR on a complete stranger (having done it as part of am ambulance crew), I would like to think I would help somebody in distress, but I know for me it depends on the situation and the location. I've driven past accidents in the ghettos because I don't want to put myself in danger, but have stopped for accidents on highways that I have seen. The number one rule that we were taught is that we as the providers are number 1. We have to look after ourselves first and our patients second.