Demons or Psychotherapy?

[roo_ster]

I recall a co-worker who was a "speaking in tongues & such" charismatic Christian.  He was our best outside salesman.  A good fellow who did his level best to set a good example for us younger guys.

Another of our co-workers was a pretty foul fellow: slept around on his wife, conniving, dishonest, would sleep with a customer to get her business, etc.  He got his job because his daddy knew someone else's daddy...

Anyways, whenever the conniver would get on the charismatic's nerves, out came a Benny Hinn tape and into the VCR it went for some "background noise."  The conniver would nearly leave skid marks out of the office in his haste to vacate.

The charismatic would say something to me like, "The Word of God has the power to repel Satan's minions, jfruser.  Don't ever forget it."

[Werewolf]

on the other hand, casting disparaging remarks at the catholic church might get this website shut down.

How so?

[280plus]

You'll piss off the Pope, that's how! 

[Perd Hapley]

That's my thinking about a lot of the writhing - it's for show: to get attention, to show how 'holy' you are.

I think more often, the subject is only interested in fooling themselves.  If you think that the holy jitterbug is the sign that you are in God's will and receiving His blessing, then you want to feel like doing it.  If you don't feel like dancing and shouting and carrying-on, then that would mean you are "resisting the Holy Spirit," or you're not praying enough, or you're not "worshiping in spirit and truth," like that guy over there jumping up and down and screaming. Ya know?  Anyway, that was my experience. 

[BrokenPaw]

Fistful,

That fits with something else I observed at that church.  For whatever reason (and I don't fully understand why) some of the people at the Wednesday-night Bible study decided that I had the "Gift of Healing", whereby I could lay my hands on people to heal them.  This was a blessing that had supposedly been bestowed by the Holy Spirit.  Anyway, at this Bible study one evening, several of the people there asked me to lay my hands on them in order to give them the Gift of Healing.

I told them that I wasn't entirely sure that I had any such gift in the first place, but that if the Lord wanted them to have it, He was quite capable of giving it to them Himself, and needed no circus tricks from me to help Him.  They all looked crestfallen and envious.  And as I paid more attention, I noticed that in this group, people compared the lists of "Gifts" they claimed to have from the Lord (tongues, being slain in the spirit n times, healing, etc), in the same way that materialists might compare who has more DVDs, or bigger houses, or what have you.

It was one-upmanship, plain and simple, and they were upset that I wouldn't "give" them another Gift, so they would be unable to carve another notch in their crosses.

-BP

[Archie]

So what exactly is the difference between 'demon possession' and 'sociopathic tendencies'?  Both seem to encourage anti-social behavior, physically agressiveness and a disregard for others. 

It seems the main difference is 'demon possession' requires the action and assistance of that pesky "God" person who seems to take credit for everything and act like He's God or something.  On the other hand, 'sociopathic tendencies' can be treated - which is to say more or less held at bay - as long as the subject is confined to an institution and figuratively 'fed soft food' or constantly under the influence of various mind altering drugs.

Charles Manson and David Berkowitz come to mind.  Odd how the two are perceived and how differently their lives in prison turn out, isn't it?

[MechAg94]

Fistful,

That fits with something else I observed at that church.  For whatever reason (and I don't fully understand why) some of the people at the Wednesday-night Bible study decided that I had the "Gift of Healing", whereby I could lay my hands on people to heal them.  This was a blessing that had supposedly been bestowed by the Holy Spirit.  Anyway, at this Bible study one evening, several of the people there asked me to lay my hands on them in order to give them the Gift of Healing.

I told them that I wasn't entirely sure that I had any such gift in the first place, but that if the Lord wanted them to have it, He was quite capable of giving it to them Himself, and needed no circus tricks from me to help Him.  They all looked crestfallen and envious.  And as I paid more attention, I noticed that in this group, people compared the lists of "Gifts" they claimed to have from the Lord (tongues, being slain in the spirit n times, healing, etc), in the same way that materialists might compare who has more DVDs, or bigger houses, or what have you.

It was one-upmanship, plain and simple, and they were upset that I wouldn't "give" them another Gift, so they would be unable to carve another notch in their crosses.

-BP

I was thinking that Paul talked about that very issue in Corinthians.  I can't remember for sure, but I know it was discussed.  I remember my pastor talking about it. 

Of course, he also mentioned that the purpose of the original gift of tongues was the communicate the Gospel to those who didn't understand the language.  It was ONLY used to communicate in languages of men.  It was not used to talk to angels or demons or the dead or communicate arcane utterances or anything of that nature. 

[BrokenPaw]

Of course, he also mentioned that the purpose of the original gift of tongues was the communicate the Gospel to those who didn't understand the language.  It was ONLY used to communicate in languages of men.  It was not used to talk to angels or demons or the dead or communicate arcane utterances or anything of that nature.

It was always my understanding about Tongues that the idea was that one or more orators could speak to others in the orators' native language, and would be heard and understood by the listeners in the listeners' native language.  As it seems to be practiced now, it's more like "a bunch of people utter things that neither they nor anyone else can understand." 

Such a gift would seem contrary to the point regardless; why would the Lord bless people by making them able to speak in a way that no one else could understand?  As I recall, the fracturing of the language at Babel was looked upon as a bad thing; why should more babble suddenly be good?

If the Lord were going to bless a modern person with "Tongues", I would expect that the person's ability to express the Lord's message in an understandable way would increase, not decrease.

-BP

[MechAg94]

I agree. 

[lee n. field]

And as I paid more attention, I noticed that in this group, people compared the lists of "Gifts" they claimed to have from the Lord (tongues, being slain in the spirit n times, healing, etc), in the same way that materialists might compare who has more DVDs, or bigger houses, or what have you. --brokenpaw

Every been through a "spiritual gifts inventory"?  Same kind of deal.

The ones I've seen consist of a Briggs-Meyer-ish questioneer, and they match you up somewhat mechanically with one of the gifts listed at various places in the New Testament.  They strike me as trying to take overt conscious control over something that should be operating more "organically", and is a metaphor anyway.  Plus I doubt the lists in the NT are intended to be exhaustive.

Last time it came around I just didn't do the form, and let it slide.

[Perd Hapley]

I was thinking that Paul talked about that very issue in Corinthians.  I can't remember for sure, but I know it was discussed. 

Your rememberer checks out OK.  Paul addressed that topic up one side and down the other in his First Letter to the Corinthians, chapters 12 through 14.  He also nails the issue of human languages versus unknown tongues.