Author Topic: oh no! immigration reality hurts  (Read 37746 times)

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2008, 09:11:15 PM »
in many ways i have a vested interest in getting rid of theillegals i compete against and sometimes lose out to them. but i figure they just make me tighten up my game an more power to em

mfree

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2008, 03:18:33 AM »
100% of illegal aliens are criminals. We have a capture gap.

The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2008, 07:23:54 AM »
Actually it's supply and demand. So employers can't/won't pay higher wages.  I dont see why they should. And I dont see any problem with people offering to do a full day's work in exchange for getting paid. Do you?

Yes, Rabbi, I do see a problem. When the people offering to do the work are illegal, which means they should not be here and have no right to offer to do the work, and that takes work away from people who ARE here legally and who would like to do the work ... yes, I'd say I do see a problem with that. I very much see a problem with that.
So let's change the law and make them legal and voila, your problem is fixed, right?
And with unemployment under 5% your argument is pretty well worthless.
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keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2008, 11:46:26 AM »
Or, or....bear with me here....They could obey the current law, and go through the proper process of coming here legally, just like all of the other LEGAL immigrants that are working here.  I have no problem with making it easier to come here.  But the disrespect that they show by just coming and doing whatever they want, coupled with the disrespect of our government to let them do it is aplorable.  And I don't think just a blanket "Sorry for the trouble, free citenship for everyone!" is the solution.  Do you feel that there is even a reason to have a distinction between citizenship and non-citizenship?

So if the numbers say that 8 million out of the 12 that are here pay their taxes and follow the law (aside from the whole "being here ilegally" thing), then that still means that there are 4 mllion people that shouldn't be here, that aren't being useful.

One of the reasons people start throwing "racist" around in this debate is because the mexicans are a VAST majority of the illegal population.  Everything I say pertains to ilegal canadians, jamaicans and pakistanians.   So one of the problems with that is when the mexicans come here, they don't do it to be american, they do it to be mexican and make money.  They are a very rich culture that believes strongly in family, relationships and history.  However they don't believe much in education and assimilation.  You know what, that's fine, but this is America, and when you want to move here, you become American and need to accept the responsibilities that come with it, or you don't get the benefits.  Are you allowed to join the military and recieve educational grants, but not go to boot camp or combat because our culture is against it? 

I have no problem with Americans of a latino heritage, in fact one of my best freinds came here LEGALLY from mexico as a boy.  I don't even have a problem with mexicans doing jobs others don't want to do for that wage.  That's what's called capitalism, and it's what makes our country great.  I have a problem with them coming here and turning my town into another "Little Mexico", putting all of the signs in spanish, and flying the Mexican flag over the American one. 

If the reason for them wanting to come here is because our country is so much better off than theirs, why are they trying to turn it into Mexico?  Don't they realize that it IS their culture that is the cause of alot of their strife they are trying to escape?

Stetson

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2008, 12:36:00 PM »
Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a column titled, "Mexican Visitor's Lament" -- 10/25/07.

        She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, "They (illegal aliens) pay rent, buy groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20 million people go away?" That's a good question - it deserves an answer.
Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America ?
The answers may surprise you!

        In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico ,
it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems, bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner, safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English became the dominant language again.

        In Colorado , 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico . That would save Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.

    &nb sp;    Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.

        Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent
drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students
speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from our gridlocked cities in Colorado .

         Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

        In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State
back to America , the rule of law, and English.

        In Chicago , Il linois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals,
schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free experience.

        If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home' --

        If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401 Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for local, state and city coffers.

        No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools would lose more than two million i llegal alien kids at a cost of billions in ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.

        We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.

        In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

        Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded
highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American deaths by illegal aliens!

         America 's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to th e aliens' home countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money untaxed, which further drains America 's economy - which currently suffers an $8.7 trillion debt.

        At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in our country, costing us $109 billion per year per cycle. At least 86 hospitals in California , Georgia and Florida would still be operating instead of being bankrupt out of existence because illegals pay nothing via the EMTOLA Act.

        Americans wouldn't suffer thousands of TB and hepatitis cases
rampant in our country-brought in by illegals unscreened at our borders.

        Our cities would see 20 million less people driving, polluting and grid locking our cities. It would also put the 'progressives' on the horns of a dilemma; illegal aliens and their families cause 11 percent of our greenhouse g ases.

        Over one million of Mexico 's poorest citizens now live inside and along our border from Brownsville , Texas to San Diego , California in what the New York Times called, "colonias" or new neighborhoods. Trouble is, those living areas resemble Bombay and Calcutta where grinding poverty, filth, diseases, drugs, crimes, no sanitation and worse. They live without sewage, clean water, streets, electricity, roads or any kind of sanitation.
    The New York Times reported them to be America 's new " Third World " inside our own country. Within 20 years, at their current growth rate, they expect 20 million residents of those colonias. (I've seen them personally in Texas and Arizona ; it's sickening beyond anything you can imagine.) By enforcing our laws, we could repatriate them back to Mexico .

        We should invite 20 million aliens to go home, fix their own
countries and/or make a better life in Mexico . We already invite a million people into our country legally more than all other countries combined annually. We cannot and must not allow anarchy at our borders, more anarchy within our borders and growing lawlessness at every level in our nation. It's time to stand up for our country, our culture, our civilizatio n and our way of life.

        Interesting Statistics.  Here are 14 reasons illegal aliens should
vacate America , and I hope they are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them:

        1. $11 billion to $22 billion dollars are spent each year on welfare to illegal aliens.  http://tinyurl.com/zob77

        2. $2.2 billion dollars are spent each year on food assistance
programs such as food stamps , WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.  http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

        3. $2.5 billion dollars are spent each year on Medicaid for illegal
aliens.  http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

        4. $12 billion dollars are spent each year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!  http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html  http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01 .html

        5. $17 billion dollars are spent each year for education for the
American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

        6. $3 Million Dollars PER DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal
aliens. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

        7. 30% percent of all federal prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

        8. $90 billion dollars are spent each year on ill egal aliens for
welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

        9. $200 billion dollars per year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

        10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US .
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

        11. During the year 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our southern border with as many as 19,500 ill egal aliens from terrorist countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine,
and marijuana crossed into the U.S. from the southern border.
http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

        12. The National Policy Institute, estimates that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion, or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation  <http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/publications.php?b=deportation>

        13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.  http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

        14. The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex
crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States !"
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html>

        The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR!!!


The Rabbi

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2008, 12:54:04 PM »
Ahh geez.  Not this *expletive deleted*it again.
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2008, 12:59:32 PM »
maybe some one should give him  a link to one of the several threads debunking most of his facts

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2008, 01:22:45 PM »
heres his "source"
http://www.e-thepeople.org/article/114201/view?viewtype=best&skip=20

i'm gonna do the easy one first  number 14
". The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex
crimes are committed by illegal immigrants in the United States !"


and the reallity

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52

now lets see what new sturmfront drivel will surface  anyone here old enough to understand the origins of the term yellow journalism?

keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2008, 01:26:18 PM »
I too would like to see a link debunking those facts. I have no problem being proven wrong, but I do believe the stuff in there is true.  I work in a SoCal elementary school, and I have seen this first hand.  Dam near everyone of our students comes in not speaking any english, and they have a hard time even getting proficient enough to stay out of the special classes when testing because it is not reinforced at home.  The parents don't care about even their children learning english because they can grow up to do jobs americans don't want too.  Of course 95% of these kids are on free lunch, and in the after school program, and a good majority of them leave the school a few months after they entered, most likely because the rent is past due.  Some of them seem really bright, but they just can't seem to succeed because their "culture" is holding them back.  You don't see that with asians who prefer studying and achievement over family values.  Not that one is better than the other, but there is a LOT of money wasted in our public school system on children of immigrants that just don't care.  If they aren't going to bother, let them stay at home and grow up to be MS-13 so that the other kids can get the attention they need.

Also the problem with alot of these "facts" is that illegal immigrants and their community don't usually even report crime, because they know they are already doing something illegal.  I certainly don't endorse public beheadings for illegally entering the country, but a simple "friendly push" back home would suffice.  Then when they come back, public beheadings.  Why should they not be more responsible for their actions than a burglar breaking into your house?  You don't want him there, even if he did break in to clean your dishes, because you didn't want to do them.  It's YOUR house, therefore unless you INVITED him, or he asked permission and got it, he is still BREAKING AND ENTERING.

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2008, 01:28:36 PM »
Quote

Th violent crime rate appears to remain high.  And I don't see any stats on who committed the crimes.  So I'm not sure what 'reality' you're referring to.

Racehorse

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2008, 01:32:20 PM »
I think my favorite for dumbest argument against illegal immigration is this:

Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

Unemployment can't get any lower than 4-5% without hurting the economy. People change jobs! People get canned because they're morons. Zero percent unemployment is both undesirable and impossible.

I think we either need to enforce the laws we have or change them to make sense. I'd prefer that we do both. But some of the arguments people make on both sides just make me tired.

Racehorse

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2008, 01:34:07 PM »
I think my favorite for dumbest argument against illegal immigration is this:

Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

Unemployment can't get any lower than 4-5% without hurting the economy. People change jobs! People get canned because they're morons. Zero percent unemployment is both undesirable and impossible.

I think we either need to enforce the laws we have or change them to make sense. I'd prefer that we do both. But some of the arguments people make on both sides just make me tired.

crap, stupidity strikes again.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2008, 01:34:31 PM »
some genius is claiming a million sex crimes by illegals alone.  that would seem to be a lil odd since that would seem to be a total greatly in excess of the total sex crimes for all folks. must be that new riech math.   unless of course you are considering everytime a latino has sex with a white woman a crime. then its probably a lot higher.they make me laugh with the nonsense sometimes. heres another way to approach that stat. 20 million illegals  1 million sex crimes.  that would make a very high number of em sex criminals.  especially if you factor out the young kids. the number only holds up for the delusional or the defective.

keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2008, 01:35:56 PM »
Quote
and the reallity

http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/statebystaterun.cfm?stateid=52

now lets see what new sturmfront drivel will surface  anyone here old enough to understand the origins of the term yellow journalism?

What does any of that have to do with how many sex crimes are committed by illegals, or the price of tea in china?

Quote
Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

I will agree that that is a dumb arguement, as there are nearly that many unemployed simply because they are crazy, handicapped or just unable to work, and I don't see any of them picking strawberries or lettuce.

Quote
some genius is claiming a million sex crimes by illegals alone.  that would seem to be a lil odd since that would seem to be a total greatly in excess of the total sex crimes for all folks. must be that new riech math.   unless of course you are considering everytime a latino has sex with a white woman a crime. then its probably a lot higher.they make me laugh with the nonsense sometimes. heres another way to approach that stat. 20 million illegals  1 million sex crimes.  that would make a very high number of em sex criminals.  especially if you factor out the young kids. the number only holds up for the delusional or the defective.

I can see what your point is, but that only lists forcible rape, which is by far the least common type of "sex crime".  I'm not going to go into details but I'm sure you can think of a few where noone even had to be touched.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2008, 01:37:27 PM »
and then there is the
"california as the world" model  thankfully that is not the case. is the land of granola f'dup?  yes . blaming it all on immigration is easy... but lazy and less than truthful

cassandra and sara's daddy

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keeleon

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2008, 01:44:59 PM »
Quote
and then there is the
"california as the world" model  thankfully that is not the case. is the land of granola f'dup?  yes . blaming it all on immigration is easy... but lazy and less than truthful

It sounds to me like you would agree that California has problems.,  I will also agree that it has several of them, but considering immigration(illegal) is a BIG one, maybe we could like.... you know.... do something about it?  It is not our only one, but I am certain that doing something about one can impact the others.  My school district is going crazy because we are going to have to fire about 200 teachers because of the budget cuts.  How come 200 people have to be fired when we have money to give to 4 million (remember 8 out of the 12 million are "honest") illegal immigrants AND to hand out 150 billion worth of economic stimulation?

Stetson

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #42 on: February 27, 2008, 02:05:30 PM »
I could care less about the unemployment statistics but not ont of you 'debunkers' commented on the MS-13 stats or the closed hospitals.
Sex crimes are more than forcible rape, but hey, ignoring the obvious is good for some.  We can play stats all day, your sources vs mine, your uncounted instances vs mine.  No mention of the Congress link, or the others, just one source?  And I'm biased?

And Reich math?  Gotta love the wording there.

I really don't care why they are here, they are criminals just by being here illegally.  I have worked for a hospital that could no longer afford to stay open due to illegals not paying for services, so I lost my job.  Add that to your unemployment rate....oh, and all the others that could no longer work there...even the illegals(suspected, but we weren't HR) that worked in the laundry room(s).

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #43 on: February 27, 2008, 02:28:05 PM »
I think the damage done to our healthcare system by illegal immingration, like the 84+ hospital closings in California alone, is well documented.  They bring in diseases long absent from the U.S., such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.  Yet hospitals are compelled by law to treat them in the emergency rooms without compensation.

And cassandrasdaddy, you can stop gratuitously slamming California, since you obviously know nothing about it.  Doubtful you've even been here.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2008, 02:30:45 PM »
you really gonna try to make the sex crimes stat fly?   and texas unemployment it under 5%

sorry you like that great  blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total  and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it?  please  you want me to knock off some of  the other facts too?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2008, 02:36:45 PM »
http://www.nurseweek.com/features/99-5/hospital.html

hospital closings from a pros view

Closing Time
California leads nation in hospital closures
 

 By John Leighty
Illustration: Photodisc
May 17, 1999


In the current era of intense competition and managed care, hospitals are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. While some hospitals have reduced staff and services to cut costs, others have been forced to close.

The California Healthcare Association reports an average of three closings a year over the past decade, most of them involving smaller, low-capacity hospitals squeezed by intense competition under managed care. Dozens of other hospitals have merged or changed ownership, moves that often result in some department closings as services are consolidated.

A look at the numbers

California typically leads the nation in the number of hospital closings. A federal survey issued this year by the Office of the Inspector General reported 38 closures in 1997 out of 4,805 general acute care hospitals nationwide; California led with six, one of which was later relicensed. There are currently 478 licensed acute care hospitals in California, according to the California Department of Health Services (DHS).

"Hospitals closed because of the interrelated factors of declining occupancy, lagging revenues, and rising costs," according to the inspector generals report.

More recent figures are hard to calculate because the state doesnt keep exact figures on closings. A survey by the Healthcare Association of Southern California showed 10 hospital closures in 1998 in a six-county region, compared with five in 1997 and seven in 1996.

Experts say theres one big factor that is bound to accelerate the closure ratethe law requiring seismic retrofitting of all hospitals by 2008. "We think there will be a dramatic closure of hospitals over the next 10 years because of this mandate, which will cost a projected $20 billion," said Nathan Nayman, regional vice president of the Hospital Council of Northern and Central California.

 
and i've been to cailfornia a few time sister lived in san diego. northern california i really liked

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2008, 02:47:02 PM »
number 1 makes claims  hereswhat the governments reports say  check page 5 of pdf on ( page4 of document

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

Paddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2008, 02:47:59 PM »
Do you even read what you post?  From the same article:

"Nurses should be especially concerned about the declining access to care caused by closures in disenfranchised areas, said Frank Moss, RN, administrative director of the emergency department at the UCLA Medical Center.

"In many urban areas, hospitals are in financial difficulty because of the high rate of unreimbursed indigent care, he said.

"The situation is if unreimbursed care continues, there will be hospitals closing their emergency departments or closing the facilities altogether,"

which is exactly what I said.  And here's a report from an expert, a physician:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
 


And thanks for your (probably few) tourist dollars, but a visit to your sister in San Diego doesn't impress me as any kind of expertise on our state.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2008, 02:52:40 PM »
your facts 4 5 6 9 all use the same lou dobbs transcript as their support  and i might need your help finding his support for the allegations

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: oh no! immigration reallity hurts
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2008, 03:05:00 PM »
riley  she was a lawyer not a doctor

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/nyregion/19cosman.html
She was also on the board of the Wake Up America Foundation, which opposes illegal immigration, and was frequently heard discussing the issue on talk radio.
and she made her living buying and selling medical practices