oh no! immigration reality hurts

[The Rabbi]

Do you even read what you post?  From the same article:

"Nurses should be especially concerned about the declining access to care caused by closures in disenfranchised areas, said Frank Moss, RN, administrative director of the emergency department at the UCLA Medical Center.

"In many urban areas, hospitals are in financial difficulty because of the high rate of unreimbursed indigent care, he said.

"The situation is if unreimbursed care continues, there will be hospitals closing their emergency departments or closing the facilities altogether,"

which is exactly what I said.  And here's a report from an expert, a physician:

http://www.jpands.org/vol10no1/cosman.pdf
 


And thanks for your (probably few) tourist dollars, but a visit to your sister in San Diego doesn't impress me as any kind of expertise on our state.

What does a high rate of unreimbursed indigent care have to do with illegals?  Are only illegals indigents?
In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.

[Paddy]

Illegal aliens threaten U.S. medical system
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275

Caring for illegals is siphoning money from other services and forcing clinics, trauma centers and emergency rooms to close
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150750,00.html

Texas hospitals spent $393 million treating illegal aliens in 2002 alone and increasing yearly with $225 million to be paid by taxpayers.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/bush-medical-plans.html

The problem is particularly pronounced in communities near the southwest border, where there are high populations of illegal aliens. In some hospitals, as much as two-thirds of total operating costs are for uncompensated care for illegal aliens.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/bush-medical-emergency-rooms.html

Hospitals feeling strain from illegal immigrants
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE6DB133CF936A1575BC0A9649C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

Flood of illegal immigrants threatens to drown hospitals
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/980.html

Bush Medicare bill provides $1 billion in federal funds for illegal alien healthcare
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=908334D0-E4FF-4285-8F7E-5D36672B0183

emergency room care for illegal immigrants has risen from $30,000 to more than $350,000 in only four years. The state prison system spent $77 million last year detaining more than 4,000 illegal immigrants.
http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=51473

Illegal aliens drive another hospital to closure
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/000060.html

Dr. Gene Rogers and the illegal alien hospital crisis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IDbdf5DxIE

Congressman: Parasitic aliens burden U.S. hospitals
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/7/15/165415.shtml

Why are taxpayers providing hospital care for illegal aliens?
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200208/ai_n9125198

The True Cost of Illegal Mexicans
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/political/configpol.pl?noframes;read=12433

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

how do your noble warriors for truth determine the folks in the er's immmigration status? since the hospitals can't ask?

[Stetson]

The doctors cannot ask and they cannot refuse treatment.  The finance people, when you exit the ER, can and do ask how you plan to pay.  They can also ask questions to determine your ability to pay, one of those is asking for residency and immigrations status.

[MechAg94]

IMO, we have a lot of problems that were there before illegal immigration became a big topic and will be after if not fixed.  Illegal immigration simply makes them worse.  The way hospitals are forced to provide treatment and sometimes have little or no way to get payment is one of them. 

I also hear about big trends of doctor opening their own surgical clinics where they have more control over how things are run and don't have to have an emergency room.  Hospitals aren't the one stop shop anymore.  I know some hospitals near me have bad reputations for staph infections and stuff. 

[Glock Glockler]

The question then, is:  Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market?

Do immigrants have a right to call on govt. to provide services to them at my expense?

[The Rabbi]

The question then, is:  Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market?

Do immigrants have a right to call on govt. to provide services to them at my expense?

Yes, in both cases.  It's called the First Amendment.

[Glock Glockler]

I think you miss the point: if we're going to have to pay the bill on govt. doles we have every right to demand the govt. regulate who comes into the country. 

[The Rabbi]

I think you miss the point: if we're going to have to pay the bill on govt. doles we have every right to demand the govt. regulate who comes into the country. 

You miss the point.
Anyone can ask for anything.  Doesn't mean they're going to get it though.

[richyoung]

The only real sensible argument I see is wage pressure-yes, more labor means lower prices for employers, which means lower wages on average for American workers.

The question then, is:  Do workers have a right to call on the government to drive up their wages by restricting entry to the labor market? 

When that competition is coming frrom foreigners, either illegal or H1B visa type, then HELL YES we have the right to call on the governemnt to knock it off....

[richyoung]

you really gonna try to make the sex crimes stat fly?   and texas unemployment it under 5%

sorry you like that great  blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total  and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it?  please  you want me to knock off some of  the other facts too?

Why should we suffer ONE sex crime by an illegal?

[The Rabbi]

you really gonna try to make the sex crimes stat fly?   and texas unemployment it under 5%

sorry you like that great  blog as a source as opposed to the doj
so lets go with 1 in 3 rapes is reported and add in all the other sex crimes. as well we still are not near a million for the us total  and you and your kinder wanna try to make me believe that only the illegals are doing it?  please  you want me to knock off some of  the other facts too?

Why should we suffer ONE sex crime by an illegal?

Why should we suffer one sex crime by anybody?  Go ahead and make the argument.  This ought to be interesting.

[Jamisjockey]

In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.

What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
Got some facts to back that tidbit up?

I'll smack down some anecdotal evidence....last two times I was in an ER, 90% of the other ER traffic was Hispanic and spoke poor to no english.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

did you check green cards? or is hispanic the parameter for being illegal?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080221/NATION/940870143/1001

more reality

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080221/NATION/74369190/1001

QUEMADO, Texas  Charles "Dob" Cunningham patrolled the rugged shoreline of the Rio Grande here for more than 30 years as a U.S. Border Patrol agent. Now retired, he operates an 800-acre cattle ranch along two miles of the river that has been in his family for more than a half century.



Illegal aliens and drug smugglers moving across his property have cut down his fences, created well-worn paths over his sprawling pastures, stolen ranch equipment and slaughtered and rustled his cattle. A pile of inner tubes used by those crossing the river sits near the corner of one his storage buildings, each shot "through and though" by the 74-year-old retired agent "so they won't be used again."



Mr. Cunningham, who served as port director in nearby Eagle Pass and Del Rio during his government career, often tracks down the intruders himself, with help from his aptly-named dog "Little Runt," whom he described as "quite successful in finding people hiding in the brush."



One might assume that he would embrace a $1.2 billion government plan to build 370 miles of fence on the U.S.-Mexico border, including 65 miles stretching from the neighboring towns of Eagle Pass to the south and Del Rio on the north that would put a 15-foot high metal barrier along the river on his property.



One might, but one would be wrong.



"We don't need a fence here," Mr. Cunningham said, showing a wide smile under his dusty cowboy hat. "It might make some folks in Washington happy, but it would do little more here than to cut off our access to the river, to water  not just for our cattle but for the abundance of migrating wildlife that can be found all along this river.



"I'm against this fence and I will fight it tooth and nail," he said. "And while a country has a right to secure its borders and fences do work in some places where there is nothing but sand and a straight line of sight, they won't work here. The politicians in Washington ought to know that."



Instead of building a fence along the river in this remote and rugged area of south Texas, Mr. Cunningham thinks the government ought to be putting more "boots on the ground," demanding aggressive patrols and making better use of technology, including sensors and security cameras.

Mr. Cunningham, who has lived on this stretch of the border all his life, said there is "ample evidence" that increasing the number of law-enforcement personnel on the border deters illegal entry and does so more effectively than a fence. After the recent addition of 280 new Border Patrol agents in the Del Rio-Eagle Pass area, he said the number of apprehensions of illegal aliens dropped by about 30 percent.



Mr. Cunningham, who retired in 1990, said the Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the Border Patrol, has set out to beef up the agency to increase its size from 12,000 to 18,000 by the end of this year, but that it should consider hiring more agents "instead of spending a billion dollars on a fence that just won't work.



"The border is not a nice place and you often have to deal with very mean people," he said. "But the idea of this fence has put fear into all of us. We are becoming more afraid of our government than we are of the dope dealers who come through here."



Page 2 of 2 << back | Email

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080228/NATION/630188964/1001

U.S. unable to judge 'fence'
By Jerry Seper
February 28, 2008
The Department of Homeland Security spent $20 million on a "virtual fence" to better secure 28 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border in Arizona but has no way to measure its effectiveness and never consulted with the field agents who will use the system before it was installed, two House subcommittees learned yesterday.



During a hearing at which some members angrily challenged department officials to say how much it will cost to secure the entire border and when that effort will be completed, U.S. Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar acknowledged the agency does not "have the means" to measure how many people are crossing illegally into the United States under the new system at the project site, south of Tucson.



The virtual fence, known as "Project 28," uses high-tech sensors, cameras and other technology along a 28-mile stretch of the border near Sasabe, Ariz. It has been highly touted by Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff.



Chief Aguilar also confirmed at a joint hearing of the House Homeland Security subcommittee on border, maritime and global counterterrorism and the subcommittee on management, investigations and oversight that the $20.6 million fixed-price contract given to Boeing Co. in September did not allow discussions with the field agents on how the system would best fit their needs  a "problem" he said that needs to be fixed.



He said future projects in Yuma, Ariz., and El Paso, Texas, will include increased input from Border Patrol personnel. They are expected to be completed by the end of 2011.



His admissions came after Richard Stana, director of homeland security and justice issues at the GovernmentAccountability Office, said that after visiting the site on three occasions, GAO investigators did not know what criteria the department used to accept the project and concluded that field agents were not consulted.



He said not all of the Border Patrol agents in the Tucson sector, all part of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), have been trained on Project 28, although the system is expected to be replaced.



Mr. Stana also said a task order for the project mandated that the system be able to detect 95 percent of people crossing the border illegally, which had not been met. He said the project did not meet expectations and was not "the ultimate system" that had been envisioned.


He also said Homeland Security's goal of building 370 miles of pedestrian fences and 300 miles of vehicle barriers along the U.S.-Mexico border by the end of this year as part of the multibillion-dollar Secure Border Initiative (SBI) may be more challenging and costly than planned.



"Meeting deadlines has been difficult because of various factors including difficulties in acquiring rights to border lands," he said.



"Moreover, CBP officials are unable to estimate the total cost of pedestrian and vehicle fencing because they do not yet know the type of terrain where the fencing is to be constructed, the materials to be used and the cost to acquire the land."



Gregory Giddens, executive director of SBI, said modifications were under way and the department hoped to alleviate shortfalls in Project 28 this year. He said the agency collected $2.2 million from Boeing for project delays.



But Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr., New Jersey Democrat, described the delays as "unacceptable" and asked why the department did not know ahead of time that most of the property on which it plans to build a fence is privately owned.



"We are 98 yards from the goal line, which is where we started 5 1/2 years ago," said Mr. Pascrell, demanding that Homeland Security say how much it was going to cost taxpayers to secure the nation's borders. None of the three department officials at the hearing had an answer.



"After 5 1/2 years, someone should be able to answer the question without a bunch of malarkey," he said.



Rep. Mark Souder, Indiana Republican, said it was Mr. Chertoff who made Project 28 "a big deal" but the committee "can't get any figures now on how much the border fence is going to cost and when it will be done."



SBI is a multiyear, multibillion-dollar program aimed at securing the nation's borders and reducing illegal immigration.



It includes programs for a comprehensive border-protection system through a mix of pedestrian fences and vehicle barriers, along with radars, sensors, cameras and satellite phones.

[The Rabbi]

In fact since most illegals tend to be younger and healthier, they use healthcare less than their socio-economic peers in large cities.

What are you smoking, and where can I get some?
Got some facts to back that tidbit up?

I'll smack down some anecdotal evidence....last two times I was in an ER, 90% of the other ER traffic was Hispanic and spoke poor to no english.

I'm smoking the same stuff Cato Institute is smoking, and that's the result of their research.
I'll smack back and say the Hispanics I see are all young. I never see an old Hispanic.  Ergo they must all be young.

[Jamisjockey]

Never said I believed the Cato institute, either.
What I do believe is that Illegal aliens, regardless of thier home country, are breaking US law by entering this country.  To top it off, then they ask for services paid for by tax payers.  They send money to thier home countries.  They break additional laws.  They ruin neighborhoods by stuffing 20 adults into one townhouse. 
They commit identity fraud to work "legally".  They stand around 7-elevens to get picked up and work under the table. 
Many work hard and don't bother anyone.  But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.
By tolerating or forgiving this transgression, we as a country are saying we're okay with lawlessness.  Our lawmakers want to forgive them to either buy votes or schmooz big business.
The entire situation is a travesty.  Instead of building better economic ties with the countries that send us the most illegal immigrants, we invade and threaten countries on the other side of the world, to make them a safe place for big business to do business.

Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
 

[The Rabbi]

Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
 

That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.

[Jamisjockey]

Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
 

That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.

Because

Many work hard and don't bother anyone.  But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.

isn't enough, right?  Because the LAWS AND SOVERIGNITY of our country mean jack *expletive deleted*it to you!  So anyone who thinks that illegal immigration should be stopped is a raciist.  Tell Al Sharpton I said "Hi" next time you sit in his lap.
 
I should have known better than to even try.

[Manedwolf]

The doctors cannot ask and they cannot refuse treatment.  The finance people, when you exit the ER, can and do ask how you plan to pay.  They can also ask questions to determine your ability to pay, one of those is asking for residency and immigrations status.

And then they lie, and vanish back into the aether, just like they do when they cause a vehicle accident. And then come with a different ID next time they need treatment. And the hospital gets stiffed. How do you chase someone for a bill when they don't exist, because they're here illegally? Answer: You can't. And the hospital has to eat the cost of treatment, materials and resources.

Some hospitals are on the verge of shutting down due to this.

Jamis, as regards Rabbi's obviously-for-a-reason stance on this issue, that can be addressed by Cicero's question. "Cui bono?"

[The Rabbi]

Actually, I'm just a mexican hating racist.
 

That's actually the most believable part of the whole post.

Because

Many work hard and don't bother anyone.  But they violated the laws and the soverignety of this country the minute they crossed the border illegally or overstayed thier visa.

isn't enough, right?  Because the LAWS AND SOVERIGNITY of our country mean jack *expletive deleted*it to you!  So anyone who thinks that illegal immigration should be stopped is a raciist.  Tell Al Sharpton I said "Hi" next time you sit in his lap.
 
I should have known better than to even try.

So if legal violation is what bothers you, then change the laws so they won't be illegal anymore.  Immigration law wasn't given at Mt Sinai, and has been changed numerous times already.  Another change to recognize the economic reality of this country would be welcome.
So you'd support a legal change like this, right?

[Jamisjockey]

Okay, so how many of them want to be legal immigrants?  Then they become subject to minimum wage laws, taxes, and all the other things that make it profitable for big business for them to be illegals in the first place?
And no, I don't support just changing the law to give them a pass.   What are we going to do when the next 14 million come streaming across the border?   Just give them a pass, too? 


"Cui Bono"??

[Manedwolf]

"Cui Bono"??

"Who Profits?" Marcus Tulius Cicero's way of saying "Follow the money" when determining who was most likely to be responsible for corruption...who profited from it? 

In other words, who would be most defensive of flagrant lawbreakers in the form of illegal aliens? Who would keep offering excuses and falsehoods about lower crime, and the "need" for those workers?

Someone who personally profits from such? Whose business ventures depend on illegals? Who would be ruined if the law was actually enforced?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it.