Father hits naked boyfriend in daughters bedroom, now the DAD is facing charges?

[De Selby]

I see a naked man I don't know standing over my daughter, I assume he is attempting to rape her. Period. Bang.
If it's a boyfriend I have never met, well, that sucks. But again, the "reasonable person" is going to be drawn from my area, and I know what the majority of people here would say.

No, it won't be drawn from your area--it will be whatever the law defines it to be in the jurisdiction in which you are tried.  You will likely be forced to argue that you reasonably believed the man was committing a felony, not that a naked man with your daughter is presumptively committing a felony.

If this may actually be an issue for you (daughters at home, for example, and a fear that a boyfriend might show up), it might be wise to consult an attorney to have this verified to your satisfaction.  You won't like what you hear, but at least you won't be under the illusion that your presumption of danger in these sorts of situations will protect you from very serious legal consequences.

The story you posted, btw, is a completely different situation.  I will highlight the key facts:

Michelle Carroll was upstairs in her Lauderhill town house when she heard her 7-year-old son yell that there was a man in the house.

''She asked him to leave several times and then he wouldn't leave,'' said her cousin Lindey Carroll. ``He walked toward her, and she shot him.''

Notice that she has an alert from her child, tries to get him to leave, and he's uncooperative, and naked on top of it. 

[Fjolnirsson]

As an added tidbit of information, I'll add that persons high on PCP have a tendency to remove clothing as a result of the drugs effects, so if I see a naked man in my home, that's further reason to suspect he isn't there for my benefit.

[Fjolnirsson]

No, it won't be drawn from your area--it will be whatever the law defines it to be in the jurisdiction in which you are tried.

Precisely. The jury will be drawn from my area. There are 100,000 people in my county. And thanks, but I've spoken with a lawyer already.

The story you posted, btw, is a completely different situation.  I will highlight the key facts:
Quote
Michelle Carroll was upstairs in her Lauderhill town house when she heard her 7-year-old son yell that there was a man in the house.
Quote
''She asked him to leave several times and then he wouldn't leave,'' said her cousin Lindey Carroll. ``He walked toward her, and she shot him.''

Notice that she has an alert from her child, tries to get him to leave, and he's uncooperative, and naked on top of it.

Yes, it is different. She had less immediate need to make a decision, and greater chance to remove her child, and she fired anyway.By the way, I didn't post the original story, which doesn't make it clear if the girl was in the room, or if the naked man/boy was alone when the father found him.

But you know what, neither of us will change the others mind, so we'll just have to disagree.

[taurusowner]

Yeah, I'm gonna say the pipe is key-you can't beat people to death on the spot for being your daughter's boyfriend...

Perhaps not.  But in those States still civillized one can beat a person unknown as needed when in one's home unbidden.  And if said daughter is minor, adult parent determines the state of bidden-ness, not the daughter.

This isn't a case about the state of the boy's permission to be on the premises, though-I don't think there's any question the father had a right to eject the kid.

The issue is the means he chose-you can't kill people for being invited into your home by another resident. 

Hitting someone with a pipe is a whole lot more serious than a spanking or an angry thrashing.  I don't believe, for example, that anyone would think it just in this country to put a kid in a wheel chair for the rest of his life, or saddle his family with caring for someone with severe mental disabilities, because someone else's daughter chose to have him over for an illicit encounter.

Then said family should have taught their kid not to go have illicit sex with other people's daughters.  They failed at teaching the lesson, and any ill result is too bad for them

[The Annoyed Man]

if daughter invited him a dad should plan on going to jail if he goes after the kid, assuming the kid doresn't whup dad

[Manedwolf]

As an added tidbit of information, I'll add that persons high on PCP have a tendency to remove clothing as a result of the drugs effects, so if I see a naked man in my home, that's further reason to suspect he isn't there for my benefit.

Meth tweakers do that, too.

[Fjolnirsson]

As an added tidbit of information, I'll add that persons high on PCP have a tendency to remove clothing as a result of the drugs effects, so if I see a naked man in my home, that's further reason to suspect he isn't there for my benefit.

Meth tweakers do that, too.

True. also not the most stable people, and frequently aggressive/dangerous.

[The Annoyed Man]

about as unstable and aggressive as a dad who finds his daughter flagrante delecto in his house

[Fjolnirsson]

about as unstable and aggressive as a dad who finds his daughter flagrante delecto in his house

True.

[The Annoyed Man]

as the father of 2 daughters who raised 2 others to adulthood it pains me to say it takes 2 to tango. and the young ladies today act the way i did when i was that age. this is not praise. acting out in a moment like that, however satifying will make things much worse in the long term.even assuming you stay outa jail

[ilbob]

I guess it kind of depends on just how old the girl is.

[The Annoyed Man]

iknow 14 year olds that i would call sexually precosious. way too many of them. i live in fear

[MicroBalrog]

As far as the law is concerned, he shouldn't have used a pipe, as there was no threat of harm to himself or his daughter.

He didn't know who the kid was, just some naked guy standing over his daughter.
That's attempted sexual assault in most places seems to me.

Says he "saw a stranger standing naked on the girl's bed".
Home intruder?  Rapist?  Who knows what. 

I think a man with any sense of a brain would notice whether or not his daughter was in any way distressed by the act.

Let me state in in an unequivocal manner:

A metal pipe is a weapon. To strike anybody with such a weapon is a use of lethal force.

The use of lethal force outside of the boundaries of legitimate self-defense is a crime in all 50 states.

If indeed what occured was the lass invited this guy in, this 'father' should be in the same place where all violent criminals should go.

Prison.

Violent criminals belong in prison. Period.

[The Annoyed Man]

we do have that irresistable impulse defense.

[MicroBalrog]

we do have that irresistable impulse defense.

So the best defense this guy has is that he was temporarily insane when he committed his crime (yes, this is a crime).

If he manages to persuade a 12-man jury, maybe he'll avoid prison.

I suspect that this'll hinge heavily on the daughter's testimony.

[De Selby]

Then said family should have taught their kid not to go have illicit sex with other people's daughters.  They failed at teaching the lesson, and any ill result is too bad for them

Does the boy's family have the right to punish the girl because she lured their boy for the dirty deed? Or are we operating under the presumption that women have no say in this matter?

[The Annoyed Man]

we do have that irresistable impulse defense.

So the best defense this guy has is that he was temporarily insane when he committed his crime (yes, this is a crime).

If he manages to persuade a 12-man jury, maybe he'll avoid prison.

I suspect that this'll hinge heavily on the daughter's testimony.

he only needs one juror  the state needs all 12

[MicroBalrog]

As far as I understand, in US law a woman engaging in sex with an underaged boy can be charged with statutory rape as well.

Logically, if a 17-year-old male having sex with a 17-year-old female can be charged with statutory rape, so can the female.

Hmmm.

As some of my friends would say, I see potential for lulz here.

[MicroBalrog]

we do have that irresistable impulse defense.

So the best defense this guy has is that he was temporarily insane when he committed his crime (yes, this is a crime).

If he manages to persuade a 12-man jury, maybe he'll avoid prison.

I suspect that this'll hinge heavily on the daughter's testimony.

he only needs one juror  the state needs all 12

As you yourself reminded me in previous threads, a hung jury usually simply means a mistrial the prosecutor will shrug and try again.

Hopefully the perp will plead out though.

P.S. After brief research, it appears the irresistible impulse defense does not apply in all 50 states. Some accept it, others don't.

[The Annoyed Man]

strangly enough most southern states.  weirdest application i ever saw was a guy in orange follwed his ex around with a shotgun in his front seat   was pretty candid about his intent should he catch her with new boyfriend.  so candid he got a visit with the sheriff and told to go home. he did find her with b/f and blasted him on the down stroke  wife threw him off jumped out/through window naked while he fired at her and missed. he never got charged with first degree murder and did less than 2 years in the end

[MicroBalrog]

strangly enough most southern states.  weirdest application i ever saw was a guy in orange follwed his ex around with a shotgun in his front seat   was pretty candid about his intent should he catch her with new boyfriend.  so candid he got a visit with the sheriff and told to go home. he did find her with b/f and blasted him on the down stroke  wife threw him off jumped out/through window naked while he fired at her and missed. he never got charged with first degree murder and did less than 2 years in the end

That's... cute.

Now, the relevant question is:

Where has the 'boyfriend meets pipe' story occured and does that state have this defense?

[The Annoyed Man]

florida?without looking i'm gonna guess yes

[De Selby]

There are two defenses being mixed, but cassandra's daddy is on to it-usually called "heat of passion" or "sudden and overwhelming passion", you get less time in the slammer if you show that you were provoked when you committed the murder, and that the provocation would be a severe one to an ordinary person, and that you acted under the influence of the provocation.

That's still a very serious felony offense, though.  It's just that you do a few years instead of life in prison.

"Irresistable impulse" defenses are usually associated with an insanity defense, which for all practical purposes does not exist in the United States.

[Antibubba]

When I was his age, I made darn sure my g-friend's parents knew who I was, and did NOT disrobe in THEIR homes.

Yes, but back then cars were much bigger, so there was never a need to go into a bedroom. 

[Perd Hapley]

I've looked around a bit, and haven't found any more info on this case.  So I must repeat:

Some of you should supply links to the news stories you're reading about this.  From the certainty some of you are displaying, I sure hope you're not going solely off that skimpy little story linked in the OP. 

Oh, yeah, I'd also like to see the story where it says he tried to kill the kid.  One certainly couldn't get that from the OP.  Especially since he was charged with aggravated battery, not attempted murder. 

Hitting someone with a metal pipe over the head is lethal force-an aggravated battery is usually only different from an attempted murder based on what was in your head at the time, not on what you actually did. 

No one disagrees that it was lethal force, there, Perry Mason.  But you said he was beating him to death.  You also said he was attempting to kill someone.  And you simply have no business making such claims, when you don't know the facts. 

If, as he claims, he thought the young man was just some naked intruder, he may have been perfectly justified in using a metal pipe.  You say he had a right to "eject" him, as if that would necessarily be a safe and harmonious process.  You also don't know whether the father was capable of "ejecting" the younger man without the use of a weapon.  He may have been handicapped.