Author Topic: Star Trek fans bash new movie as "watchable/entertaining" (Read 39688 times)

mtnbkr · « **Reply #150 on:** May 17, 2009, 12:59:08 PM »

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Can't wait till Friday, when I can go see it at the Smithsonian/Udvar-Hazy's IMAX!

Damn. I didn't know it was playing there. I saw it at the new Tysons Corner theater.

Chris

mfree · « **Reply #151 on:** May 18, 2009, 12:41:25 AM »

To bring the thread back to the movie....

.....WOW. And I'm usually not easily impressed by movies, and this may very well be the first one I see twice outside the home.

They just managed to make it "right", in movie terms. Very few quibbles (though there are some, but by revealing I'd ruin the experience for some of you).

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #152 on:** May 18, 2009, 12:49:44 AM »

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It's all well and good to enjoy your hobbies, but there are people who should really take Shatner's SNL "Get a LIFE!!!" routine to heart.

Meh. I don't see how having a life "taken up" by your hobby is worse than having a "normal" life.

CNYCacher · « **Reply #153 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:08:24 AM »

I've taken to watching the old movies lately. Anyone else notice this major plot hole in #2 and #3? When spock is restored using the mind dump he had stuck into McCoy's brain before getting fried, he at first doesn't recognize anyone, but then he recognizes Jim, and they recreate their parting conversation from when Spock died ("needs of the many", etc) as if Spock is remembering.
But that conversation took place AFTER he brain-dumped into McCoy, how could Spock "remember" it?

AJ Dual · « **Reply #154 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:35:26 AM »

Quote from: CNYCacher on May 18, 2009, 09:08:24 AM

I've taken to watching the old movies lately. Anyone else notice this major plot hole in #2 and #3? When spock is restored using the mind dump he had stuck into McCoy's brain before getting fried, he at first doesn't recognize anyone, but then he recognizes Jim, and they recreate their parting conversation from when Spock died ("needs of the many", etc) as if Spock is remembering.
But that conversation took place AFTER he brain-dumped into McCoy, how could Spock "remember" it?

I can forgive that particular one.

Spock was very logical, and the "needs many/few"-thing was probably a core saying of Vulcan philosiphy etc. So as he came to (re)understand what he did and how he died, he knew it applied to his situation and the converse of it with his rescue from the Genesis planet etc.

Not nearly as ginormous a revision or plot-hole as Luke & Leia being a potential love interest/triangle with Han Solo.

Although I give Lucas a pass when people use this as an example to rag on him for saying "he had a plan/plot all along", he did, but just in the broad strokes of the fall of the republic, the Empire etc...

MechAg94 · « **Reply #155 on:** May 18, 2009, 09:56:54 AM »

Considering that before he was brought back, his father was playing and replaying the video of Spock's death, I can imagine the new Spock saw the video.

A better question is if the new Spock was rapidly aging on the Genesis planet, how come he suddenly stopped aging once they took him off.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #156 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:11:29 AM »

Quote from: MechAg94 on May 18, 2009, 09:56:54 AM

Considering that before he was brought back, his father was playing and replaying the video of Spock's death, I can imagine the new Spock saw the video.

A better question is if the new Spock was rapidly aging on the Genesis planet, how come he suddenly stopped aging once they took him off.

Because the reason Leonard Nimoy was cast as Spock in the first place. He's the one actor who saves them on the makeup budget.

CNYCacher · « **Reply #157 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:36:04 AM »

Quote from: AJ Dual on May 18, 2009, 09:35:26 AM

I can forgive that particular one.

Spock was very logical, and the "needs many/few"-thing was probably a core saying of Vulcan philosiphy etc. So as he came to (re)understand what he did and how he died, he knew it applied to his situation and the converse of it with his rescue from the Genesis planet etc.

It's not that he just happened to use the same axiom at a later time. There is a scene immediately after Spock's body is re-joined with his memories, and he doesn't recognize anyone at first, then he walks over to Jim and they basically recreate the final conversation that they had through the glass before Spock's death, with Spock appearing to struggle to remember it. It included Spock asking if they were out of danger. Then everyone walk over and fawns over him as credits roll.

Balog · « **Reply #158 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:59:54 AM »

Quote from: MicroBalrog on May 18, 2009, 12:49:44 AM

Meh. I don't see how having a life "taken up" by your hobby is worse than having a "normal" life.

Well, obsessing over a game/movie/whatever to the detriment of relationships in meatspace, a job, personal hygiene etc is demonstrably worse. People failing college classes from playing Warcraft? Bad. People breaking up because all they care about is playing Warhammer? Bad. I could go on.....

buzz_knox · « **Reply #159 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:02:54 AM »

Quote from: MechAg94 on May 18, 2009, 09:56:54 AM

Considering that before he was brought back, his father was playing and replaying the video of Spock's death, I can imagine the new Spock saw the video.

A better question is if the new Spock was rapidly aging on the Genesis planet, how come he suddenly stopped aging once they took him off.

The "in universe" explanation is that the Genesis Wave effect was still active on the planet, long after it was supposed to have stopped. It affected the planet (causing increasing instability) and Spock (rapid aging). When he left the planet, he left the area effected by the wave.

MicroBalrog · « **Reply #160 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:11:34 AM »

Quote from: Balog on May 18, 2009, 10:59:54 AM

Well, obsessing over a game/movie/whatever to the detriment of relationships in meatspace, a job, personal hygiene etc is demonstrably worse. People failing college classes from playing Warcraft? Bad. People breaking up because all they care about is playing Warhammer? Bad. I could go on.....

People meeting and getting engaged due to playing Nationstates... :D

Balog · « **Reply #161 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:27:10 AM »

I don't think anyone is saying all hobbies are necessarily detrimental. Just becoming obsessed with them.

roo_ster · « **Reply #162 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:59:28 AM »

Quote from: MicroBalrog on May 18, 2009, 11:11:34 AM

People meeting and getting engaged due to playing Nationstates... :D

Concept of scale? Yeah, some few meet, marry, have kids, and grow old together.

Balanced against the much larger number of folks who let all things in reality go to Hell in a hand basket, losing touch with reality in favor of unreality is a Really Stupid Thing.

freakazoid · « **Reply #163 on:** May 18, 2009, 08:40:49 PM »

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Not nearly as ginormous a revision or plot-hole as Luke & Leia being a potential love interest/triangle with Han Solo.

That's not a plot hole. They didn't know that they where brother and sister at the time.

roo_ster · « **Reply #164 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:19:26 PM »

Quote from: freakazoid on May 18, 2009, 08:40:49 PM

That's not a plot hole. They didn't know that they where brother and sister at the time.

If Lucas The Plot Destroyer intended for Luke & Leia to bump uglies, he is wierder & more twisted than I thought.

buzz_knox · « **Reply #165 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:27:30 PM »

Quote from: jfruser on May 18, 2009, 10:19:26 PM

If Lucas The Plot Destroyer intended for Luke & Leia to bump uglies, he is wierder & more twisted than I thought.

Lucas having a grand plan is as much a myth as Roddenberry wanting to depict a utopia when he suggested Star Trek. Lucas changed the plot of SW quite a bit before and after the first film. Roddenberry wanted "Wagon Train to the Stars" then Hornblower, but mostly to get paid.

Fans on both sides have a habit of buying the propaganda that gets put out to glorify the creators, usually by the creators themsleves ("It's not a product, it's art.")

Strings · « **Reply #166 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:40:18 PM »

Actually, it's my understanding that he (Lucas) did have a little bit of a plan. After Splinter came out, he put a VERY tight clamp on anything else published in the SW Universe, supposedly to keep the world consistant.

Unfortunately, he ruined that with Ep 1. Which, pardon a rant for just a sec...

The light side is in ascendancy (in the form of the Jedi). They find Anakin, who Yoda says "...will bring balance to the force.".

Ummm... wouldn't that mean he's going to bring the Dark Side to power? Which means all that could be avoided with a simple shot to the head?

Even if "it wouldn't be moral to shoot the child" (old philosophical argument), why the hell was everybody suprised with what happened?

AJ Dual · « **Reply #167 on:** May 18, 2009, 10:49:20 PM »

My understanding was that the Jedi were too arrogant to understand what bringing that "balance" would mean, ascendancy of the Sith, the Empire, the near-extinction of the Jedi etc.

Then in the end, we're left with Luke, who was a more human and less aloof Jedi. (Never read them, but my understanding in the EU is that he married some female ex-henchwoman of the Emperor turned good, and had Jedi kids, whereas the Jedi before were purely monastic and recruited only from without. And Anikan rebelling against that with his secret marriage to Pada... Panam... Panda-bear whatever her name was (Robot Chicken FTW!) and the fear of her loss that turned him to the dark side.

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas · « **Reply #168 on:** May 18, 2009, 11:51:51 PM »

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My understanding was that the Jedi were too arrogant to understand what bringing that "balance" would mean, ascendancy of the Sith, the Empire, the near-extinction of the Jedi etc.

Sounds about right. You got the feeling from the new series that the Jedi Council was seen to be full of crap. They don't seem to judge Dooku all that harshly, or Obi-Wan for taking in the kid. Best example of this full-of-crap-ness is Mace Windu, who views harassing Anakin as his mission in life (he got what was coming to him). They put the kid through the wringer in Ep. 1, and - "Then he will be trained then?" "No. He's too old." They'd made their decision long before the test. And by all means, take the kid to see the guy who rescued him from slavery get stuck on a bonfire.

Don't recall much in Ep. 2, aside from Mace's moronic strategy - but in Ep. 3, he's a jackass again. "You're on the council, but you won't be a master." And "If what you have told me is true, you will have earned my trust." And they demand (I think, haven't read it) to be made generals in the clone army, despite having, I strongly suspect, zero training in that subject. The Jedi notion of logistics is levitating a lemon. This is all besides their habit of charging in way ahead of their troops in an effort to get all the glory.

BryanP · « **Reply #169 on:** May 19, 2009, 09:12:29 AM »

Time to chime in. I saw the new Trek on Sunday. Good movie. Good story. Loved the bit where Kirk offers mercy at the end.

roo_ster · « **Reply #170 on:** May 19, 2009, 10:33:27 AM »

Quote from: BryanP on May 19, 2009, 09:12:29 AM

Loved the bit where Kirk offers mercy at the end.

Because...that's...what...a real ~~ham~~ human...would...do.

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Author Topic: Star Trek fans bash new movie as "watchable/entertaining" (Read 39688 times)