Author Topic: Decline and the next dark age?  (Read 52808 times)

Perd Hapley

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2011, 05:28:23 PM »
I strongly suspect that many people will be post-human at that point, and a trillion of us could catch a ride on a space craft the size of a beer can


I suspect all these post-human energy-type beings will suicide purty quick from boredom.

If such an existence is possible, we really don't have the tools to envision what it would be like, the challenge would be 1000 times harder than someone in the 1910's being tasked with describing the 2010's. But that also means we've no basis to guess that a "life of mind" would drive you to suicide, or to decide that you'd lived thousands/millions of perceived years at computer time rates etc. either.


That's a whole lot of speculation going on there. Let's just remember that we've never seen any post-humans (unless you count Charlie Sheen), or any life forms that have broken their ties from the home world (see previous caveat). Whether such things might ever even occur is extremely questionable.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2011, 01:02:01 AM »


That's a whole lot of speculation going on there. Let's just remember that we've never seen any post-humans (unless you count Charlie Sheen), or any life forms that have broken their ties from the home world (see previous caveat). Whether such things might ever even occur is extremely questionable.

Nope... never seen any... not even a glimmer of such a thing.







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Perd Hapley

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2011, 01:26:43 AM »
These are space-conquering post-humans?
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AJ Dual

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2011, 01:29:16 AM »
These are space-conquering post-humans?

Just like people questioned how the first vacuum tube computers that filled a whole warehouse could ever be useful for more than calculating artillery tables I guess.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2011, 01:59:26 AM »
These are space-conquering post-humans?

One of the biggest problems with extended stays in low gravity is loss of muscle tone, mass and bone density. Looks like some of that has been solved for the first woman.
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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2011, 02:01:53 AM »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2011, 07:50:08 AM »
Just like people questioned how the first vacuum tube computers that filled a whole warehouse could ever be useful for more than calculating artillery tables I guess.

Except that your "post-humans" are more analogous to broken abacuses than to early computers. They are injured people with mechanical replacement parts that are crude by comparison to the OEM equipment.

Though, admittedly, I don't know what the deal is with the guy in the middle. You put him in between some amputees, so I'm assuming...
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2011, 08:38:21 AM »
Quote
mechanical replacement parts that are crude by comparison to the OEM equipment.

A decade ago they were even cruder still, a decade before that they were little removed from what was available a century ago. What will be available a decade from now will be even more advanced.

Technology marches on. We have tech today that was born in the imaginations of SciFi writers centuries ago. 60 years ago a man on the moon was so much pie in the sky. I can only imagine the thing my grandkids will find common place and even passe'.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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erictank

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2011, 10:15:22 AM »
Except that your "post-humans" are more analogous to broken abacuses than to early computers. They are injured people with mechanical replacement parts that are crude by comparison to the OEM equipment.

Though, admittedly, I don't know what the deal is with the guy in the middle. You put him in between some amputees, so I'm assuming...

I believe that's the guy they used to test restoration of vision to a blind human via computer.  Note the wires running into his head.

Our first small steps at correcting or repairing damage or genetic deficiency resulting in what were (indeed, ARE) crippling problems.  No, they aren't as capable as OEM - but in some cases, the patient's OEM didn't work, and these, with some function, ARE better.  In other patients' cases, their OEM was damaged or destroyed - and doesn't work.  These do, at least to some extent, and thus ARE better.



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MicroBalrog

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2011, 10:27:19 AM »
Except that your "post-humans" are more analogous to broken abacuses than to early computers. They are injured people with mechanical replacement parts that are crude by comparison to the OEM equipment.


The point is that we can take equipment, and use it to improve a human being from what Mother Nature gave him. In this very crude fashion, LASIC, steroids, and this sort of surgery are a form of early cyberpunkery.

As a matter of fact, so are certain kinds of consumer electronics IMO.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2011, 10:31:46 AM »
Ok, so the tech is improving, and inferior replacement parts are better than missing or severely damaged originals. No one disputes that. But being patched up to function like other humans doesn't make someone post-human.

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2011, 10:35:18 AM »
So called "improving" the mortal vessel we live in is pointless if we continue to be morally & ethically stunted narcissistic creatures, IMHO.
 
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2011, 10:43:09 AM »
So called "improving" the mortal vessel we live in is pointless if we continue to be morally & ethically stunted narcissistic creatures, IMHO.
 

I am not morally and ethically stunted. Are you, comrade?

But more to the point, you're wrong. If we could improve the performance of a man who is born without legs to the point he could perform like a perfectly healthy man, it would make the world a morally better place. If we could improve the performance of healthy men in the same way to something even better how would that also not make the world a better place?

Technological that pushes the average life expectancy of humans from 36 to 75 years, for example, is very good. Why would it not also be good (in a moral sense) to prolong human life to 120, 240, 1200, if we were so capable?

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AJ Dual

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #63 on: May 04, 2011, 10:51:17 AM »
We tend to think of ourselves as "different", but a lot of our woes and shortcomings come as a result of being competitive sexual mammals.

Food, space, mates... it puts all our dealings with each other into a potentially ruthless, if not deadly frame of reference.

And I don't need a computer/brain interface to see what the real objections some of our members have with discussions of humanity's potential for a long term future beyond Earth, or our potential for post-human, post scarcity existence. However, I promise to be polite.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 10:56:45 AM by AJ Dual »
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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2011, 11:04:45 AM »
I remember talking with my great-grandfather about the first Space Shuttle launch.  I was 12 years old.  He was 83, and sharp as a tack. He talked to me about how much he had seen since being born into a home that still used oil lamps for lighting and a coal stove for heat.  They had an outhouse in the back and a water pump in the kitchen.  The ice box used actual ice to keep things cold. He learned to hunt with a muzzle loading rifle because that's what the family had. He laughed when he told me that at my age, the world was in awe about the Wright Flier being able to fly relatively short distances, and here we were watching a giant version of that flying machine leave the planet.  When he was my age, he had never fathomed the ideas of radios, televisions, computers, space flight, a moon landing, or many other things that we now take for granted.  Hell, in 1994, when I graduated from law school, I had no PC, no cell phone, and a television with an antennae.

Who knows what college student out there is on the verge of discovering a method of propulsion that will make interstelar travel a reality?  Which grade school student had this silly idea in her head about how to make a space ship that can fly millions of miles without need to refuel?  What little boy out there is drawing smoething in crayons that will someday serve in his mind as teh inspiration for artificial gravity?

The future is limited only by the bounds of human creativity and imagination.  So long as children can still dream, then we have not yet reached the limit of what is possible.
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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2011, 11:37:00 AM »
Ok, so the tech is improving, and inferior replacement parts are better than missing or severely damaged originals. No one disputes that. But being patched up to function like other humans doesn't make someone post-human.

True, or perhaps Captain Ahab was an 18th century neuromancer.


And I don't need a computer/brain interface to see what the real objections some of our members have with discussions of humanity's potential for a long term future beyond Earth, or our potential for post-human, post scarcity existence. However, I promise to be polite.

Please, do break out your telepathy helmet and tell me why I am skeptical.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2011, 01:26:28 PM »
True, or perhaps Captain Ahab was an 18th century neuromancer.


Please, do break out your telepathy helmet and tell me why I am skeptical.

Note I said some. Some are just simply skeptical, like any number of people who have been over a round Earth, a Heliocentric Solar System, air travel, computers, rocketry, artificial satellites etc. throughout history.

Some are skeptical because they believe the Rapture/Second Coming will happen before humanity gets as far as some of the ideas we're discussing here, so to them it's at best a pointless waste of time, and at worst, some sort of sinful arrogance.

(Shrug) To each their own. 
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Tallpine

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2011, 02:06:14 PM »
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the world was in awe about the Wright Flier being able to fly relatively short distances, and here we were watching a giant version of that flying machine leave the planet

Trouble is that the space shuttle is the Wright flier version of space planes, and here 30 years later there has been no improvement  =(

If "we" are ever really going to explore the universe, we need to start with a practical and relatively economical means to get to earth orbit and back again.
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brimic

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2011, 02:23:49 PM »


That one throws me for a loop, can't decide if that's hawt or not. (I'll probably burn in hell for wondering)
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2011, 02:42:12 PM »
I'll go with HOT!. I can see passed the "disability" and see what appears to be a healthy young woman with a zest for life.
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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2011, 02:54:32 PM »


That one throws me for a loop, can't decide if that's hawt or not. (I'll probably burn in hell for wondering)
There are entire sites devoted to "hot amputees," if you are interested.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2011, 02:57:35 PM »
Are those leaf spring prosthetics just for running, or for everyday use?


Quote from: AJ Dual

Some are skeptical because they believe the Rapture/Second Coming will happen before humanity gets as far as some of the ideas we're discussing here, so to them it's at best a pointless waste of time, and at worst, some sort of sinful arrogance.

(Shrug) To each their own. 

Yet you've implied that there's something wrong with that. Why? I'm not in that camp, but what's wrong with it?
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GigaBuist

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2011, 03:20:40 PM »
Trouble is that the space shuttle is the Wright flier version of space planes, and here 30 years later there has been no improvement  =(

I beg to differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipOne

Getting into space is now cheaper and safer than ever before.  Certainly better than it was 30 years ago.

brimic

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2011, 03:35:08 PM »
Quote
There are entire sites devoted to "hot amputees," if you are interested.
Yeah, I know that there are sites for every sort of fetish imaginable. Maybe I wouldn't feel so weird, like its not a fetish or something, about thinking of her as hot if her leafsprings were painted up to look like strips of bacon. (I'm definatley going to hell now).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 03:43:21 PM by brimic »
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lee n. field

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Re: Decline and the next dark age?
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2011, 03:35:40 PM »
I beg to differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipOne

Getting into space is now cheaper and safer than ever before.  Certainly better than it was 30 years ago.

Space Ship One doesn't get you to LEO.

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