Author Topic: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents  (Read 26177 times)

MillCreek

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Boomhauer

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 04:12:39 PM »
Florida...it could only happen in Florida...



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RevDisk

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 04:13:48 PM »

Why are people so turbo up in arms over this? As I understand, there's only marginal advantages but no significant disadvantages.
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Boomhauer

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 04:18:46 PM »
Why are people so turbo up in arms over this?

Because people are nuts...

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Holy hell. It's like giving a loaded gun to a chimpanzee...

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the last thing you need is rabies. You're already angry enough as it is.

OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 05:08:36 PM »
Why are people so turbo up in arms over this? As I understand, there's only marginal advantages but no significant disadvantages.
Yeah, I wonder about this, too.  Do people out there really have nothing better to do than worry about other peoples' foreskin?  The whole thing just seems weird. 

MillCreek

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 05:41:56 PM »
Yeah, I wonder about this, too.  Do people out there really have nothing better to do than worry about other peoples' foreskin?  The whole thing just seems weird. 

I have had the experience of dealing with some 'intactivists': either from the perspective of trying to sue the physician who did a circ on them as an infant 30+ years ago, or by filing disciplinary or regulatory complaints against healthcare facilities to try and prevent circs from being performed there.  My sample size of these people is small, probably around 10 or so.  All of them were middle-aged (30-50) white males.  In my non-clinical opinion, probably six of them had some sort of psychiatric pathology around the whole issue.  It was clearly the focus of their life and the hook upon which they hung all of their problems and failures in life and relationships.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 05:59:21 PM »
My sample size of these people is small, probably around 10 or so.

This is the problem I have with a lot of the women who complain; either their sample size is way too small for a proper conclusion, or they're just morally not the sort of people I would go to for advice.

I mean, really; even a sample size of 40, split down the middle, (wow, is that the wrong phrase for the subject or what?) would still have a fair likelihood of being biased by too many on one side or the other who are significantly good or bad in bed for other reasons.  Much beyond that, and you're getting into women who aren't particularly observant of quality anyway.


Hawkmoon

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 06:27:52 PM »
This is the problem I have with a lot of the women who complain; either their sample size is way too small for a proper conclusion, or they're just morally not the sort of people I would go to for advice.

I mean, really; even a sample size of 40, split down the middle, (wow, is that the wrong phrase for the subject or what?) would still have a fair likelihood of being biased by too many on one side or the other who are significantly good or bad in bed for other reasons.  Much beyond that, and you're getting into women who aren't particularly observant of quality anyway.

I have no idea what you said, but I fully support your right to say it.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 08:30:15 PM »
Why are people so turbo up in arms over this? As I understand, there's only marginal advantages but no significant disadvantages.


You mean they make a mountain out of a mohel hill?

Not original, I know, but at least I'm first in this thread to say it.  =)
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Northwoods

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 08:55:02 PM »
I find it interesting that in most cases of spouses disagreeing over circumcising their son, the vast majority of the time the dad wants it done and the mom that objects. 
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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 09:02:02 PM »
I think the only people that should make the decision are those that have skin in the game.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 09:15:19 PM »
I find it interesting that in most cases of spouses disagreeing over circumcising their son, the vast majority of the time the dad wants it done and the mom that objects. 

that seems odd to me...

Admittedly, I'm not sure how much extra care is required cleaning the twig while it's confined to a diaper, but it seems to me that a person who is going to spend a lot of time changing those diapers would be against any extra work.

(yes, if I ever have a boy, this will be one of the top considerations when deciding this issue. I know, I know, I'm a horrid human being. In my defense the only toddler I know is 3 and considers the question "do you want to use the potty?" to be mortal insult. I'm not sure I could take three + years of cleaning out the nooks and crannys on a little boys personal parts)
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230RN

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 11:28:01 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, it's required by law or regulation (Health Dept.)  in NYC, at least around 1939.  If I didn't already have enough "research" crap to do, I'd look into that further.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:31:24 PM by 230RN »
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2015, 05:04:40 AM »
I changed more diapers than my wife. Heck my kids were 3 weeks old before she changed one


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zahc

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2015, 07:10:19 AM »
Quote
Admittedly, I'm not sure how much extra care is required cleaning the twig while it's confined to a diaper, but it seems to me that a person who is going to spend a lot of time changing those diapers would be against any extra work.

(yes, if I ever have a boy, this will be one of the top considerations when deciding this issue. I know, I know, I'm a horrid human being. In my defense the only toddler I know is 3 and considers the question "do you want to use the potty?" to be mortal insult. I'm not sure I could take three + years of cleaning out the nooks and crannys on a little boys personal parts)

You may be on to something. We got a pamphlet from our pediatrician that explained how to care for both intact and mutilated penises. The intact section was about 2 sentences: wipe it off during diaper changes and wash the exterior during baths. Never try to expose the glans or stick anything up there (this agrees with my Hungarian grandparent's advice that you need a ruler to care for [intact] baby penises:to smack the hands of anyone who tries to mess with it). The mutilated-penis-care section was frankly horrific,  describing just how much bleeding and bruising is considered "normal" how to avoid "skin bridges" as the penis attempts to heal itself, apply petroleum jelly as a barrier to try to keep feces off the open wound, how to spot an infection so you can bring him back in to be billed yet again.

My Dr. also said it's common for parents of intact babies to follow the advice given for mutilated babies,  which is often promulgated as penis advice in general, and unsurprisingly and cringingly causes problems.
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De Selby

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2015, 07:16:48 AM »
Not sure about calling it mutilation when it prevents aids, cancer, infections of all stripes, and on a young infant is basically a scrape with little to no bleeding.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2015, 07:34:24 AM »
And we're off to the races again.  ;/
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brimic

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2015, 07:50:11 AM »
Quote
The mutilated-penis-care section was frankly horrific,  describing just how much bleeding and bruising is considered "normal" how to avoid "skin bridges" as the penis attempts to heal itself, apply petroleum jelly as a barrier to try to keep feces off the open wound, how to spot an infection so you can bring him back in to be billed yet again.

 ;/
Its about on par with the care needed to be given to the bit of umbilical cord until it falls off. Most adults can take care of these things without any drama, let alone trauma.
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brimic

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2015, 07:51:34 AM »
I'd love to poll 'inactivists' to see what their stance on abortion is, I bet the results would be head-scratching.
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RevDisk

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2015, 11:03:11 AM »
(snip)

My Dr. also said it's common for parents of intact babies to follow the advice given for mutilated babies,  which is often promulgated as penis advice in general, and unsurprisingly and cringingly causes problems.

So, I guess we found the intactivist.

Again. Is it really that huge of a deal? If so, why?

I'm not disagreeing with you. Though the word choice is off-putting. It's akin to seeing pierced ears as "mutilation". It's seemingly harmless body modification, with seemingly few to no health concerns assuming you're not a complete muppet.
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Northwoods

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2015, 02:09:18 AM »
;/
Its about on par with the care needed to be given to the bit of umbilical cord until it falls off. Most adults can take care of these things without any drama, let alone trauma.

Yep.  With Thing 2 about all we had to do post-circ was "frost the cupcake" with vaseline at each diaper change for a few days.  Thing 3 did not get a circ, though I wish he had.  While he hasn't had any serious infections, it does smell a LOT more than his older brother, and he has had at least one yeast infection and frequent redness in spite of doing everything "right" (even by zahc's definition) in terms of hygiene. 
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dogmush

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2015, 05:31:17 AM »
Irregardless of one's stance on snipping of infants, does anyone else think that by the time the kid is 4 it's not a great idea?

What will never be remembered at 8 days is a big deal to a 4 YO.

Blakenzy

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2015, 07:08:22 AM »
APS discussing this for the umpteenth time  :lol:

So what if something does go wrong and a less than fully functional member results? How would you feel about having a hand in messing up your son's sex life? Putting scars on something that relies on compliant and elastic skin seems counter intuitive. The purported health benefits aren't that solid either. Smelly penis? Wash it. Afraid of STDs? Wear a condom... or better yet don't go into depths unknown... It may have been "a solution" waaaaay back when people roamed the desert for decades on end, with little spare water and no latex trees around... FFWD to 2015... not so much. It's more of a capricious tradition. "If it ain't broke, don't try n' fix it" works best.

So...how about preventive appendectomies?
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2015, 07:29:19 AM »
APS discussing this for the umpteenth time  :lol:

So what if something does go wrong and a less than fully functional member results? How would you feel about having a hand in messing up your son's sex life? Putting scars on something that relies on compliant and elastic skin seems counter intuitive. The purported health benefits aren't that solid either. Smelly penis? Wash it. Afraid of STDs? Wear a condom... or better yet don't go into depths unknown... It may have been "a solution" waaaaay back when people roamed the desert for decades on end, with little spare water and no latex trees around... FFWD to 2015... not so much. It's more of a capricious tradition. "If it ain't broke, don't try n' fix it" works best.

So...how about preventive appendectomies?

how often does it go wrong? and how does that number compare to numbers for yeast infections and other issues stemming from non snipped? because it seems to me that there is no real compelling evidence on way or another.
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zahc

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Re: Intactivists in Florida snip away at opponents
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2015, 11:36:27 AM »
how often does it go wrong? and how does that number compare to numbers for yeast infections and other issues stemming from non snipped? because it seems to me that there is no real compelling evidence on way or another.

A "less than fully functional member" ALWAYS results, I mean by definition. You are excising parts here. Not only do you lose the majority of nerve ends, the loss of the foreskin results in scarifiication of what's left. Discussion of "complications" is moving the goalposts.

If you circumcised your kid, you already chose to radically change his penis and affect his future sex life. Best case scenario is he and his future wife are content with what they are missing and convince themselves that it's ok.

Circumcision is the only prophylactic surgery still performed in the civilized world. Maybe it could be justified if there was truly life-threatening concerns, but there aren't. My friend's kid got a UTI, and the prescription was "make him drink lots of water".   This leads me to conclude that the motivation is mostly cosmetic, and unfortunately for the victim utterly irreversible.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2015, 11:51:10 AM by zahc »
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