Author Topic: Bush the Patsy-part deux  (Read 21426 times)

Paddy

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Bush the Patsy-part deux
« on: September 01, 2007, 08:59:05 AM »
Everything to lose and nothing to gain.  Wait until the next successful terrorist enters the U.S. aboard a Mexican truck.  Oh, wait-it's all to 'benefit U.S. consumers'.  Well that's ok, then.  Ain't nuthin more important than consumin'............. angry

Mexico trucks to roll on U.S. highways

By John Crawley 2 hours, 1 minute ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration can proceed with a plan to open the U.S. border to long haul Mexican trucks as early as next week after an appeals court rejected a bid by labor, consumer and environmental interests to block the initiative.

The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco late on Friday denied an emergency petition sought by the Teamsters union, the Sierra Club and consumer group Public Citizen to halt the start of a one-year pilot program that was approved by Congress after years of legal and political wrangling.

The Transportation Department welcomed the decision and said in a statement that allowing more direct shipments from Mexico will benefit U.S. consumers.

The 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement approved broader access for ground shipments from both countries but the Clinton administration never complied with the trucking provision. A special tribunal ordered the Bush administration to do so in 2001.

"This is the wrong decision for working men and women," Jim Hoffa, president of the Teamsters, said in a statement after the court ruling. "We believe this program clearly breaks the law." The Teamsters represents truckers that would be affected by the change.

The emergency stay was sought on grounds the administration's pilot program had not satisfied the U.S. Congress' requirements on safety and other issues. But the appeals court ruled otherwise.

SAFETY ASPECTS

The administration plans to start the program on September 6. Transportation Department officials hope to receive final clearance early next week from the department's inspector general's office, which is reviewing its safety aspects, and finalize details with Mexican authorities.

The Mexican government must grant reciprocal access to U.S. trucks under NAFTA. That provision is not expected to be a problem, regulators said.

Mexican trucks operating in the United States have for years been restricted to U.S. points near certain large border crossings where their goods are transferred to trucks owned by U.S. firms.

Under the pilot program, Mexican long haul trucking companies that have met safety, licensing, and other U.S. requirements will be allowed to operate their rigs throughout the country. Proponents say this will reduce costs and speed up shipments.

Trucking regulators said in a court filing the goal is to gradually accommodate 100 Mexican trucking companies by the end of the pilot program, or roughly 540 large trucks.

But opponents said those figures do not reflect the number of companies that could seek access to U.S. roads if the pilot is successful, which they said raises safety concerns.

"This (pilot) program is basically a show trial. They haven't provided notice up front about who will participate. You just don't know what the program will look like," said Bonnie Robin-Vergeer, attorney for Public Citizen.

Public Citizen and the Teamsters still plan to proceed with a lawsuit they filed in federal court, challenging the Mexican truck program on broader grounds. That case will not likely be decided until next year.

Trucks from Canada have no operating restrictions in the United States.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070901/us_nm/mexico_trucks_us_dc_1

longeyes

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2007, 09:09:18 AM »
The elephant's in the living room.  In fact he's upstairs in the master bedroom and camped out in the garage.  And his truck's in the driveway.

We're living in a fool's paradise, but I guess that's the way a lot of people want it.
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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2007, 04:49:34 PM »
Gee, I guess I am the only one here who thinks competition is good.  The U.S. pledged to do this in treaty and the ones blocking it are the usual union suspects.
Roll on.
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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2007, 04:57:08 PM »
Competition is great, until you are the one having to compete with someone from another country who will do the job for a quarter of what you are paid to do it.

Thats not really competition.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
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The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2007, 05:01:03 PM »
Competition is great, until you are the one having to compete with someone from another country who will do the job for a quarter of what you are paid to do it.

Thats not really competition.

Yeah.  A recession is when your neighbor is out of work.  A depression is when you're out of work.
Great joke, but that's all it is.
If I am shipping goods (and I do), I want the cheapest way to do it,  It doesn't really matter to me whether the person driving is Mexican, a Chinese, or an American.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2007, 05:13:19 PM »
Quote
Gee, I guess I am the only one here who thinks competition is good.  The U.S. pledged to do this in treaty and the ones blocking it are the usual union suspects.
Roll on.

And hope you're not next to one when the duct-taped airbrake lines fail, or the ill-maintained tire explodes and takes out your vehicle.

Because Mexico is SO known for exemplary safety inspection agencies, and, why, the efficiency of all their government agencies. And never taking bribes. Never ever.

This will last until a Mexican truck jacknifes and kills a bunch of people when it sweeps cars off the road, and the cause is found to be poor maintenance. Unfortunately, some innocent people are going to have to die to convince the powers that be that this isn't a good idea.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2007, 05:17:04 PM »
Ah, the old "third world" argument again.
Quote
Under the pilot program, Mexican long haul trucking companies that have met safety, licensing, and other U.S. requirements will be allowed to operate their rigs throughout the country. Proponents say this will reduce costs and speed up shipments.

How does it feel being on the same side of the issue as Jim Hoffa and the Teamsters?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2007, 05:18:56 PM »
Argument? Mexico is a third-world narco-state. They can't even manage clean water and sewage processing in the 21st century.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2007, 05:22:14 PM »
Argument? Mexico is a third-world narco-state. They can't even manage clean water and sewage processing in the 21st century.
Neither can parts of the U.S.
Your point exactly?
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Manedwolf

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2007, 05:28:14 PM »
I don't know of any cities in the US where drinking municipal tap water will give you horrific diarrhea due to parasites and bacteria, where sewage still runs in open ditches and isn't subject to any treatment at all, do you?

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2007, 05:34:22 PM »
Your point exactly?
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drewtam

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2007, 05:35:45 PM »
Peoria, IL dumps untreated sewage into the Illinois River (which feeds into the Mississippi).
http://www.hoinews.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=48235

I agree with Rabbi, in so far as he supports free trade. But I also see the other side of the argument. We will need to have tough safety standard enforcement. The other problem is that Mexico has looser emissions standards than the US. For the OTR diesel engines that means more NOx emissions. NOx is a principle cause of smog. US trucking industry has paid big bucks on modern engines with reduced emissions. This will dramatically under cut that effort.

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Sergeant Bob

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2007, 05:37:17 PM »
Quote
Ah, the old "third world" argument again.
Well, they are a third world country, and the title is well earned. Ever been to T.J., Nuevo Laredo, San Luis? Yeah, they're real big on enforcement of safety regulations down there.

Quote
How does it feel being on the same side of the issue as Jim Hoffa and the Teamsters?

What does that have to do with anything? Just because they are union doesn't mean they can't be right.
Big deal, they passed some pilot program so they could get their foot in the door. What makes you think once the gates are opened they are going to adhere to our safety standards like they did during the pilot? They're talking about only 540 trucks right now. What happens when that becomes thousands? Who's going to keep track of all of them?
Wait until a few American families get run over by drunken Mexican truck drivers or trucks with half the brakes out. It will happen and in greater numbers than it happens with American trucks.
Personally, I do not understand how a bunch of people demanding a bigger govt can call themselves anarchist.
I meet lots of folks like this, claim to be anarchist but really they're just liberals with pierced genitals. - gunsmith

I already have canned butter, buying more. Canned blueberries, some pancake making dry goods and the end of the world is gonna be delicious.  -French G

wooderson

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2007, 05:56:21 PM »
Who does this benefit?

Not the consumers - does anyone really think we're going to see prices hold steady or drop thanks to cheap Mexican trucking?
Not the people on the highways - Mexican trucks are AT BEST no safer than American trucks, in all likelihood less safe (even if they've passed some standards testing - we can't even regulate food packing, or oil/gas refineries or pretty much anything else within our borders, much less trust that an extra-national corporation will keep up when we aren't looking).
Not small businesses who ship products in their business - this won't matter to UPS/FedEX/etc..
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wmenorr67

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2007, 06:36:41 PM »
I don't know of any cities in the US where drinking municipal tap water will give you horrific diarrhea due to parasites and bacteria, where sewage still runs in open ditches and isn't subject to any treatment at all, do you?

New Orleans.
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SomeKid

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2007, 07:36:33 PM »
New Orleans is not an American City. Ask its mayor, it is a chocolate city.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2007, 04:27:30 AM »
Who does this benefit?

Not the consumers - does anyone really think we're going to see prices hold steady or drop thanks to cheap Mexican trucking?
Not the people on the highways - Mexican trucks are AT BEST no safer than American trucks, in all likelihood less safe (even if they've passed some standards testing - we can't even regulate food packing, or oil/gas refineries or pretty much anything else within our borders, much less trust that an extra-national corporation will keep up when we aren't looking).
Not small businesses who ship products in their business - this won't matter to UPS/FedEX/etc..
So you are positing that lowering costs in any industry does not benefit anyone?  That would be news to most economists.
Who says we can't regulate within our borders?  Are you saying all regulation is unenforceable?  That would be news to any industry I am familiar with.
If they are as safe as American trucks, what is the problem?
I am waiting for the Libertarians on the board to chime in with their mantra that you punish people for what they've done, not for something they haven't done yet.
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Paddy

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2007, 07:43:58 PM »
They'll be coming up right through the center of Texas

http://www.portstoplains.com/maps/New_PTP_Map_08_05a.pdf

http://www.portstoplains.com/index.html

Are we really importing so much stuff from Mexico that we need a 4 lane interstate highway carrying up to 2000 trucks a day?  Or will those trucks be carrying other 'goods' from China and other third world countries, coming into Mexican ports on the Pacific?

Think about it.

De Selby

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2007, 11:52:09 PM »
Everyone loves the free market as long as they're free to set all the prices and exclude whoever.

Where's the faith in capitalism people?
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The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2007, 03:13:40 AM »
Everyone loves the free market as long as they're free to set all the prices and exclude whoever.

Where's the faith in capitalism people?

I think the rule is that Libertarianism ends at the border.  When it comes to gov't telling me what to do, I am against it.  But when it comes to gov't telling everyone else what to do, I am for it.
Hypocrisy?  You decide.
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Paddy

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2007, 05:35:31 AM »
Quote
Everyone loves the free market as long as they're free to set all the prices and exclude whoever.

Where's the faith in capitalism people?

I have yet to see a working free market example; apparently it's just an abstraction.  Unrestrained and unaccountable capitalism is every bit as dangerous as unrestrained, unaccountable government.

The Rabbi

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2007, 05:57:02 AM »
Quote
Everyone loves the free market as long as they're free to set all the prices and exclude whoever.

Where's the faith in capitalism people?

I have yet to see a working free market example; apparently it's just an abstraction.  Unrestrained and unaccountable capitalism is every bit as dangerous as unrestrained, unaccountable government.

Who is talking about "unrestrained and unaccountable" capitalism?  Is there such a thing?  No, there isn't.  It is an abstraction created by leftist idealogues to belittle capitalism and freedom.
Capitalism is always restrained: restrained by threat of lawsuits from damaged consumers, restrained by binding contracts, and restrained by the market place.  And it is accountable to those as well.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2007, 07:48:29 AM »
Where's Mercedesrules when you need him?  grin
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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2007, 04:48:21 PM »
Where's Mercedesrules when you need him?  grin
He sold out to Bushco and is busy collecting our IPs so that we can all be rounded up when our neocon overlords decide it is time.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Bush the Patsy-part deux
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2007, 06:39:15 PM »
I, for one, will welcome our neocon overlords. 


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