Author Topic: Related to Boston bombing, an article  (Read 12275 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Related to Boston bombing, an article
« on: April 17, 2013, 11:05:28 AM »
I had posted this, in the Boston bomb thread:

Two very interesting links at Drudge:

http://freebeacon.com/al-qaeda-link-probed/

An AQ magazine suggested using pressure cookers in 2010.

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/16/saudi_national_no_longer_person_of_interest_in_boston_bombings_no_other_suspects

No suspects.


A big part of me hopes this event goes unsolved.

Why?  How could I be so callous to justice? 

I'm tired of nannyism.  You just can't prevent everything.  You can't buy security.  You have to earn it.  And maybe something like this going unsolved would cause New England and other parts of the US that aren't "flyover" to start taking accountability for individual actions and security rather than shoving more collectivism down my throat.



But they're probably more likely to just go London/Orwellian and throw a bunch of cameras, random van-mounted backscatter X-ray machines, obligatory frisks and searches and other things that make me stay away from "their" cities.

Check this article out.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130417/DA5N4K100.html

Quote
Despite the tragedies the United States has faced in recent years, Ruben says the nation as a whole is "still at the stage of a great deal of naivete."

Ruben was two weeks old when her parents fled Iraq in 1950. She was going to high school outside Tel Aviv in 1967, when Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egyptian forces in what has come to be known as the Six-Day War.

 "The Western mind cannot really perceive the will to lose life, to kill yourself, to send your children with a complete purpose of killing yourself and others," the 62-year-old New Jersey woman says. "This is a concept that is so foreign to the democratic American mind, even though 9/11 happened right in the heart of America. It raped America in such a violent way. I don't see that that is interpreted as something that really exists and can come to here and hit home in such a way - that it's an isolated case, that there are excuses for that, that they were disturbed people."

American parents have long warned their children "not to talk to strangers." In Israel, Ruben notes, television ad campaigns instruct kids on how to spot a suspicious package, and to report it.

Her two adult daughters live there now, and it is nothing to them to have their bags inspected or to automatically pop their trunks before driving into a mall parking structure.

"It's so much part of the culture, and you don't even blink," she says. "They know that they need to do these things in order to be safe."


You decadent, self-centered Americans.  With your expectations of privacy and self ownership.  How dare you not accept random friskings in public?  Why are you not civilized like the rest of the brutish world?


Watch this dialogue continue.  Whether 2A related, 4A related or whatever.  It's all about ownership.  Do you own you?  Or does the State?
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Jamisjockey

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2013, 11:09:10 AM »
I fully expect to see this become the norm for major sporting events.  You already have to do this to enter "closed" events like the Olympics.  Expect to see entire marathon routes become safety corridors requiring copious amounts of cash to secure.  The true victim in these attacks is always freedom.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2013, 11:20:09 AM »
I fully expect to see this become the norm for major sporting events.  You already have to do this to enter "closed" events like the Olympics.  Expect to see entire marathon routes become safety corridors requiring copious amounts of cash to secure.  The true victim in these attacks is always freedom.

Yeah, I haven't been to a major sporting event in 10 years because I am not cool with the level of molestation at the security checkpoint.
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roo_ster

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Jamisjockey

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2013, 12:18:19 PM »
Yeah, I haven't been to a major sporting event in 10 years because I am not cool with the level of molestation at the security checkpoint.

FWIW I've been to the Relian Staidum complex for a number of events, and its not quite to the molestation level.  The Houston Rodeo attracts an insanely large crowd, and you can stroll in with a backpack or stroller unsearched and unmolsested.  I worry how long that will last. 
Just last year, TSA viper teams were doing random searches on Metro here in Texas.  (supposedly with the searchee's consent  ;/)  It won't take long for the long reaching tentacles of the federal government to decide on a crowd limit before they allow the state/local/venue authorities to continue to direct security.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

zahc

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2013, 12:42:00 PM »
I agree with the article's point that "we" are naive. Even in domestic incidents like the school shootings, the society as a whole does this eyes-glazed-over denial routine where "things like this don't happen" or "aren't supposed to happen". The consequence is total lack of effective action, because preparing for the fact that these things obviously DO happen would require acknowledging and coming to grips with that FACT that people do go out and deliberately kill people who don't deserve it. It might also require people to consider the issues of guilt and blame. As long as these are 'isolated incidents' and due to 'mental illness' then we don't have to face the reality that some people are evil and are motivated to kill other, innocent people.

The problem with this in America is that "addressing the problem" always addresses the wrong problem, ineffectively, with a high cost to individual rights, but this is because of the denial. It's obvious that TSA does not actually expect to find explosives, because their procedures are incapable of dealing with any explosives they actually do find. It's obvious that schools don't actually expect to deal with an armed shooter, because the procedures are incapable of dealing with such in any way. This situation arises and remains because in a society which is in the naive/denial stage.

A society that is used to people killing for ideological reasons has been pushed past the denial stage and into the "address the problem" stage. The sooner we push past the denial stage into the reality stage, maybe we will get some rational cost/benefit analyses on prevention measures.

I'm not against having to have my trunk searched before being allowed to park in a mall parking garage. I just think that it needs to be the mall's security requiring the searching, and not the government.
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 12:54:25 PM »


I'm not against having to have my trunk searched before being allowed to park in a mall parking garage. I just think that it needs to be the mall's security requiring the searching, and not the government.

...And what if you're the type of guy that keeps a long gun in your trunk or behind the seat?

Now you're getting harassed by rent-a-cops for having a perfectly normal and innocuous thing in your car.

What if you have something valuable in your trunk?  Now you have low paid mall security knowing about your valuables, as well as having access to any on-site surveillance computers or DVR's, able to delete footage of them stealing your property.


Our society and our economy will choke itself to death if we embrace a security state in response to bombings.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

zahc

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 12:57:49 PM »
Quote
...And what if you're the type of guy that keeps a long gun in your trunk or behind the seat?

Now you're getting harassed by rent-a-cops for having a perfectly normal and innocuous thing in your car.

What if you have something valuable in your trunk?  Now you have low paid mall security knowing about your valuables, as well as having access to any on-site surveillance computers or DVR's, able to delete footage of them stealing your property.

Then you don't shop there if it's not worth it to you. Do you want laws stating that places of business HAVE to allow you entry under your own terms?
Maybe a rare occurence, but then you only have to get murdered once to ruin your whole day.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 01:09:06 PM »
Then you don't shop there if it's not worth it to you. Do you want laws stating that places of business HAVE to allow you entry under your own terms?


When it comes to being able to search me, and my vehicle with no reasonable cause, yes.


If police can't frisk me or search my car without due process, then privatized security shouldn't be able to do so either.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2013, 01:11:48 PM »
When it comes to being able to search me, and my vehicle with no reasonable cause, yes.


If police can't frisk me or search my car without due process, then privatized security shouldn't be able to do so either.

If it's rent a cops, you can always leave.
Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2013, 01:16:54 PM »
When it comes to being able to search me, and my vehicle with no reasonable cause, yes.


If police can't frisk me or search my car without due process, then privatized security shouldn't be able to do so either.


your phrase for the day

private property
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »
Quote
I LOVE FREEDOM! FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM! Except when it comes to property rights. People shouldn't be able to specify what kind of security they want on their own property. *expletive deleted*ck that.
Fitz

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2013, 01:22:44 PM »
So if Safeway grocery stores have a policy to frisk every customer that walks in for concealed pistols and explosive belts, you're good with that? ;/  Really?

You?  Your wife?  Your 12 year old daughter?  Your developmentally disabled 8 year old?  That rape victim over there?

To buy GROCERIES!?!
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2013, 01:23:20 PM »
So if Safeway grocery stores have a policy to frisk every customer that walks in for concealed pistols and explosive belts, you're good with that? ;/  Really?



No, and others wouldn't be either. And they'd fail as folks went to Giant, Food Lion, whatever.


Free market.
Fitz

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2013, 01:25:29 PM »
No, and others wouldn't be either. And they'd fail as folks went to Giant, Food Lion, whatever.


Free market.

That's cute, but not how it works.

Giant, Albertsons, Fry's, Fred Meyer, Tom Thumb, Safeway, Thriftway, Walmart... they'd all hold a conference to decide on a uniform way to do it.

They'd kill the free market either by collaborative lobbying of Congress, or by collusion.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2013, 01:25:29 PM »
The difference is, private property versus government compulsory security measures. If a private business wants me to submit to a humiliating search, I don't have to do business with them. When the government mandates it, they do so under force of law.


Fitz

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2013, 01:26:29 PM »
The difference is, private property versus government compulsory security measures. If a private business wants me to submit to a humiliating search, I don't have to do business with them. When the government mandates it, they do so under force of law.




sounds libertarian   
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2013, 01:27:07 PM »
So if Safeway grocery stores have a policy to allow CCW? you're good with that? ;/  Really?

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

To buy GROCERIES!?!

Your arguments sound eerily familiar.

Either you're for rights or you're not. Government has no place in deciding what sort of screening/security happens at a private business.
Fitz

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2013, 01:29:40 PM »
Your arguments sound eerily familiar.

Either you're for rights or you're not. Government has no place in deciding what sort of screening/security happens at a private business.

www.delta.com
www.southwest.com
www.aa.com
www.united.com
www.usairways.com


"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2013, 01:30:52 PM »
www.delta.com
www.southwest.com
www.aa.com
www.united.com
www.usairways.com




I don't believe in the TSA's mission either. I've said over and over again that it's security theater.

How does posting a bunch of urls negate what I said?

Are you saying you're OK with the gov mandating that the airlines/airports conduct invasive searches?
Fitz

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Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2013, 01:31:44 PM »
Oh i get it. You're ALL FOR government using force to coerce people, just as long as the coercion fits YOUR worldview.

Got it
Fitz

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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 01:32:20 PM »
You made the statement that government has no place in deciding what sort of screening/security happens at a private business.

I negated the truth of that statement.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Jamisjockey

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 01:32:36 PM »

your phrase for the day

private property


Bolded is my emphasis.

JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 01:32:59 PM »
You made the statement that government has no place in deciding what sort of screening/security happens at a private business.

I negated the truth of that statement.

No, you didn't. Government has NO PLACE deciding those things. The fact that they have done it, when it's NOT THEIR PLACE, is irrelevant.
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog

AZRedhawk44

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2013, 01:35:48 PM »
Oh i get it. You're ALL FOR government using force to coerce people, just as long as the coercion fits YOUR worldview.

Got it

lulz, no.

Just pointing out that free market collusion between competitors can result in effective coercion of the populace.

It won't just be Safeway giving your teen daughter the pat-down while Albertsons is live-and-let-live.  They'll both enact the same policy at the same time.  And they'll do their damnedest to try and scapegoat the action on some feel-good legislation passed by Congress to mandate pat-downs in "commerce facilities capable of holding more than 100 people as inspected by the local fire marshall" or some fluff like that, which they lobbied for in the first place.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Fitz

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Re: Related to Boston bombing, an article
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2013, 01:36:54 PM »
lulz, no.

Just pointing out that free market collusion between competitors can result in effective coercion of the populace.

It won't just be Safeway giving your teen daughter the pat-down while Albertsons is live-and-let-live.  They'll both enact the same policy at the same time.  And they'll do their damnedest to try and scapegoat the action on some feel-good legislation passed by Congress to mandate pat-downs in "commerce facilities capable of holding more than 100 people as inspected by the local fire marshall" or some fluff like that, which they lobbied for in the first place.

:-|


So, the free market is good when it suits you.

But not when it doesn't.

Got it.

Statist
Fitz

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I have reached a conclusion regarding every member of this forum.
I no longer respect any of you. I hope the following offends you as much as this thread has offended me:
You are all awful people. I mean this *expletive deleted*ing seriously.

-MicroBalrog