Author Topic: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo  (Read 19565 times)

Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2011, 07:22:50 PM »
A lot of *expletive deleted* be it books, clothes, music, whatever marketed towards kids and teens is so inappropriate...

But then again a whole heck of a lot of parents let their kids participate in that kind of stuff...it's really the parents fault more than anything...how many 10 and 12 y.o.s have you seen dressed like hookers? Yeah...



Right, it's just a lot easier to slip stuff into books. I know Griz is a dedicated parent who wouldn't let his daughter dress like a hooker, or date an abusive 30 year old. But it's easy to not notice that the books she's consuming advocate that sort of behaviour, or at least normalize it. Which was the whole point I was trying to convey, perhaps not well.
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Boomhauer

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2011, 07:25:11 PM »
Right, it's just a lot easier to slip stuff into books. I know Griz is a dedicated parent who wouldn't let his daughter dress like a hooker, or date an abusive 30 year old. But it's easy to not notice that the books she's consuming advocate that sort of behaviour, or at least normalize it. Which was the whole point I was trying to convey, perhaps not well.

Right...it's a whole lot harder to screen the books than it is to screen for the other crap.
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grislyatoms

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2011, 07:26:18 PM »
She is bored with the Bronte sisters already. I have read her the intros to Austen's stuff and she's not interested.
What does she like? Joss Whedon's screenplays. No joke.
"His scripts are entertaining".
She has lived with my favorite sit-coms "Sanford and Son" and "All in the Family" for years.
She tried for an extra part before Whedon's folks a couple months ago but was rejected.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2011, 07:30:15 PM »
Quote
OP: be careful what you let the kid read. A lot of stuff aimed at kids is not a good influence these days. I understand there is only sio much you can do: I read just about every book in our libraries SF/Fantasy section, as well as tons of westerns, horror, detective, general lit, and even the encyclopedia once or twice. I guess I'd just say that not everything marketed towards kids is appropriate for them.


Micro, re classics: I think they are substantially different, but still not the best influence depending on the novel.

Screw sexualization. Not the issue.

Let me explain where I am coming from, here:

My father was a literature teacher (by this I mean that he no longer actively teaches it).

In one sense my upbringing was very strict, in that it was seen to that I have read the main canon books of Russian (and later English) literature, as well as some translated books from other cultures. Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Shakespeare, Dumas, Hugo. Add some good teachers in the later years of high school, and I was pretty much set for college.

On the other hand, starting at about age 14 I was allowed pretty much free reign at the house library. It was considered preferable to me buying my own books with pocket money ("science fiction and fantasy is a primitive form of entertainment for engineers and programmers!").

I think at least in the educational and personal moral sense I turned out all right.
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Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2011, 07:42:27 PM »
Cool story bro.
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grislyatoms

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2011, 07:44:48 PM »
Sounds just a bit like my experience with my grandparents. Cheap black and white t.v. through the 70's, but one entire wall of the attic was a bookshelf.

Wait, wait, wait, still following tangents.

Lol, all I was asking was if there was any...material...in "Black Veil Brides" songs I might not be pleased with. Sorry for all the drama.
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grislyatoms

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2011, 08:31:42 PM »
Right, it's just a lot easier to slip stuff into books. I know Griz is a dedicated parent who wouldn't let his daughter dress like a hooker, or date an abusive 30 year old. But it's easy to not notice that the books she's consuming advocate that sort of behaviour, or at least normalize it. Which was the whole point I was trying to convey, perhaps not well.
Thanks, for that.
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Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2011, 11:36:35 PM »
Can't resist adding this...

Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2011, 09:04:40 AM »
how can edward be a bad guy if bellas still a virgin?  to quote her father "i'm starting to like him"
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CNYCacher

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2011, 09:59:47 AM »
how can edward be a bad guy if bellas still a virgin?  to quote her father "i'm starting to like him"

By the end of the last book she is not, but he insisted that she turn 18 and that they get married first.
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seeker_two

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2011, 12:08:01 PM »

I think at least in the educational and personal moral sense I turned out all right.

Can we think about that for a moment?......  =|



















 =D
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Tallpine

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2011, 02:16:13 PM »
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massive sexualization of YA literature

About a year or so back, I was trying (unsuccessfully) to get an agent to take my novel (teen adventure story set in ~500 AD).

One of the agents put the first few pages of one of her latest client books on her blog with "this is the sort of thing I am looking for."

I was appalled  :O

Sure, I could write stuff that graphic - but not intended for teens.
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MrsSmith

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2011, 03:03:14 PM »
I know we've moved past the book thing, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. The one thing I can say for my mother is that she never restricted what I read in the slightest. And I read everything. The sex scenes didn't make me have sex, the violence didn't lead me to go out and hurt people. Same with music. I listened to everything. Listening to the Dead Kennedys didn't make me want to lynch the landlord. I never restricted my kids in what they read or listened to either.

That said, TV, movies, video games - different story.

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Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2011, 03:10:25 PM »
I know we've moved past the book thing, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. The one thing I can say for my mother is that she never restricted what I read in the slightest. And I read everything. The sex scenes didn't make me have sex, the violence didn't lead me to go out and hurt people. Same with music. I listened to everything. Listening to the Dead Kennedys didn't make me want to lynch the landlord. I never restricted my kids in what they read or listened to either.

That said, TV, movies, video games - different story.



Just as with Micro, that anecdote is not really related to this conversation. Of course books and music don't "make" anyone do anything. But they certainly do influence world view, just everything else a kid consumes. The biggest determiner is of course parental, but pretending that what kids take in has no effect on them is disingenuous.

As to the bolded part: how so?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

seeker_two

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2011, 03:46:17 PM »
I know we've moved past the book thing, but I'm going to weigh in anyway. The one thing I can say for my mother is that she never restricted what I read in the slightest. And I read everything. The sex scenes didn't make me have sex, the violence didn't lead me to go out and hurt people. Same with music. I listened to everything. Listening to the Dead Kennedys didn't make me want to lynch the landlord.

Then again....you wound up here....  =|












 =D
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

MrsSmith

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2011, 03:48:46 PM »
There is that...
America is at that awkward stage; It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards. ~ Claire Wolfe

AJ Dual

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2011, 04:05:53 PM »
Back in the mid-80's at my Catholic grade school, a girl in my class in the 6th grade brought in Peter Bencley's "Jaws" novelization (or was it first, and the movie later?) and had highlighted the two (IIRC) brief sex scenes in the book, and was passing the book around to all the other girls in the class.

They were caught, and it was a major scandal. The girl, nominally one of the "good kids" was suspended for a day or two, and it was all a big deal, with tight lipped lay-teachers and parents coming to and fro. (By the 80's there was only one nun left, and the principal the only priest.)

Meanwhile, I was reading Piers Anthony's "Tyrant of Jupiter" series, and Robert Henilen's "pervy old man phase" with Stranger in a Strange Land, and the various sequences in "Time Enough for Love" where the immortal Lazarus Long is boning his own cloned twin sister/daughters, and travelling back in time to do his mom too.  :laugh:
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MicroBalrog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2011, 09:38:13 PM »
Do you think the world is full of perverted drug-dealing drive-by-shooting gang-bangers who are that way because they've read too much Nabokov? I somehow doubt that.
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RevDisk

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2011, 10:09:26 PM »
Right, it's just a lot easier to slip stuff into books. I know Griz is a dedicated parent who wouldn't let his daughter dress like a hooker, or date an abusive 30 year old. But it's easy to not notice that the books she's consuming advocate that sort of behaviour, or at least normalize it. Which was the whole point I was trying to convey, perhaps not well.

I read Heinlein growing up.  Dude has some seriously weird nookie scenes.  *shrug*  I turned out alright.


Er.  Wait.  On second thought, perhaps Balog makes a good point.   =D
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seeker_two

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2011, 11:07:21 PM »
Do you think the world is full of perverted drug-dealing drive-by-shooting gang-bangers who are that way because they've read too much Nabokov? I somehow doubt that.

Yes....but think of how much more accurately they'd be shooting if they HAD read Nabokov.....  :O
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Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2011, 12:20:14 AM »
Micro: nice strawman.

As I said, books (movies, music, tv etc) have some affect on the people who consume them. That's the point of a story, right? To cause the reader to think or feel something, to view the world through the lens of the author?

Of course it isn't the sole, or even the largest, determiner of worldview and such. But denying it can have any effect is demonstrably false.
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I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2011, 01:59:50 AM »
I'm not denying literature has an effect.

I'm denying that literature, consumed at such an age at which one may properly comprehend it, will have an anti-social effect.
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Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #47 on: July 21, 2011, 11:03:52 AM »
I'm not denying literature has an effect.

I'm denying that literature, consumed at such an age at which one may properly comprehend it, will have an anti-social effect.

It has an effect, but it is universally positive, regardless of what it is? Really?
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #48 on: July 21, 2011, 11:16:26 AM »
I'm not sure where you've read this from my statement.

Again: I've never seen reading the wrong sort of book influence a person to become anti-social - i.e. become an out and out gang-banger/hobo/child abuser scum.

Now, a person may be influenced to have a different worldview from me, or to have some form of weird hang-ups about their personality that I may dislike and even regard as negative. But we all have our hangups in the end and this does not equal - to me at least - the anti-socialness of the first kind.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Balog

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Re: "Black Veil Brides" and kiddo
« Reply #49 on: July 21, 2011, 11:21:57 AM »
I'm not sure where you've read this from my statement.

Again: I've never seen reading the wrong sort of book influence a person to become anti-social - i.e. become an out and out gang-banger/hobo/child abuser scum.

Now, a person may be influenced to have a different worldview from me, or to have some form of weird hang-ups about their personality that I may dislike and even regard as negative. But we all have our hangups in the end and this does not equal - to me at least - the anti-socialness of the first kind.

If your goal as a parent is merely to prevent your child from becoming a gang member or child abuser then I agree. But I'd certainly hope the parents here have higher standards than that.
Quote from: French G.
I was always pleasant, friendly and within arm's reach of a gun.

Quote from: Standing Wolf
If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.