Author Topic: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror  (Read 6955 times)

Perd Hapley

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ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« on: June 21, 2013, 03:24:57 AM »
In spare moments, for some stupid reason, I am forcing myself to watch the first season of Star Trek: TNG. Man, is it terrible. I'm thinking, if it weren't for the Star Trek heritage, it would have been the The Cape of 1987.

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roo_ster

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 07:10:49 AM »
Yes, it was awful.  As were the others of its kind: Voyager, DSN, the movies.  Just awful scifi. 

Never saw the retro series.  TOS and TOS movies were the only ones worth watching until the JJ Abrams ST.
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MechAg94

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 08:58:43 AM »
TNG got a little better with the Borg stuff later, but yeah, the early shows were pretty bad.  The actors were stiff.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 09:17:19 AM »
Just adding a reply so the picture in the OP disappears.
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erictank

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 09:30:55 AM »
Took them time to get into their roles - and the second (?) season change to the collared, 2-piece outfits helped to make them look more like members of a space navy and less like they belonged on Romper Room. TNG came up with some fantastic stories, though - easily comparable to or better than TOS, and they had a longer run to get more of them out there as well.

Different people have different opinions and all that, so I'll just say I disagree that TOS was the only "good" Trek, and leave it at that.

makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 09:36:27 AM »
Yes, it was awful.  As were the others of its kind: Voyager, DSN, the movies.  Just awful scifi. 

Never saw the retro series.  TOS and TOS movies were the only ones worth watching until the JJ Abrams ST.

Like Eric, I have to disagree. TOS was very good, but ST: TNG was excellent, even if it had nothing redeeming but creation of the Borg. (And I think it had more than that, Q was an especial favorite of mine.)

DS9 could be very good. Voyager... it was crap, so you're right there. And one TNG movie was good.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

RevDisk

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 10:04:42 AM »
Took them time to get into their roles - and the second (?) season change to the collared, 2-piece outfits helped to make them look more like members of a space navy and less like they belonged on Romper Room. TNG came up with some fantastic stories, though - easily comparable to or better than TOS, and they had a longer run to get more of them out there as well.

Different people have different opinions and all that, so I'll just say I disagree that TOS was the only "good" Trek, and leave it at that.

What Eric said.  I remember an episode called "The Hunted" that I particularly liked. But yea, TNG aged well. The early episodes are quite bad.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2013, 10:15:30 AM »
In spare moments, for some stupid reason, I am forcing myself to watch the first season of Star Trek: TNG. Man, is it terrible. I'm thinking, if it weren't for the Star Trek heritage, it would have been the The Cape of 1987.



ST:TNG fans must be punished with this image.  Maybe I can also dredge up some youtubage of Worf getting his Kilngon ass kicked by a little alien chick while Troi prates on about the feelings of hostility she is getting off yet another latex-faced alien who shot at the Enterprise first.  Or was it the blob alien they were morally precluded from phasering into component bits?

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At his recent keynote speech at the New York Television Festival, former Star Trek writer and creator of the re-imagined Battlestar Galactica Ron Moore revealed the secret formula to writing for Trek.

He described how the writers would just insert "tech" into the scripts whenever they needed to resolve a story or plot line, then they'd have consultants fill in the appropriate words (aka technobabble) later.

"It became the solution to so many plot lines and so many stories," Moore said. "It was so mechanical that we had science consultants who would just come up with the words for us and we'd just write 'tech' in the script. You know, Picard would say 'Commander La Forge, tech the tech to the warp drive.' I'm serious. If you look at those scripts, you'll see that."

Moore then went on to describe how a typical script might read before the science consultants did their thing:

La Forge: "Captain, the tech is overteching."

Picard: "Well, route the auxiliary tech to the tech, Mr. La Forge."

La Forge: "No, Captain. Captain, I've tried to tech the tech, and it won't work."

Picard: "Well, then we're doomed."

"And then Data pops up and says, 'Captain, there is a theory that if you tech the other tech ... '" Moore said. "It's a rhythm and it's a structure, and the words are meaningless. It's not about anything except just sort of going through this dance of how they tech their way out of it."
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 10:19:19 AM by Roo_ster »
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TechMan

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2013, 10:29:16 AM »
7 of 9?  Glad you mentioned her Roo_ster



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Hawkmoon - Never underestimate another person's capacity for stupidity. Any time you think someone can't possibly be that dumb ... they'll prove you wrong.

Bacon and Eggs - A day's work for a chicken; A lifetime commitment for a pig.
Stupidity will always be its own reward.
Bad decisions make good stories.

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Viking - The problem with the modern world is that there aren't really any predators eating stupid people.

makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2013, 10:31:07 AM »
Quote
Moore then went on to describe how a typical script might read before the science consultants did their thing

The writers had no idea about technology. So they outsourced to someone so it actually made sense.

It was meaningless to him. As I recall, a great many of the "tech" talks were actually based on current (i.e. 1980's) theories (Data's role was to explain the originator and the theory.)
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2013, 10:41:40 AM »
The writers had no idea about technology. So they outsourced to someone so it actually made sense.

It was meaningless to him. As I recall, a great many of the "tech" talks were actually based on current (i.e. 1980's) theories (Data's role was to explain the originator and the theory.)

OK, but you gotta love "the tech is overteching." :lol:
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SADShooter

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2013, 10:44:55 AM »
OK, but you gotta love "the tech is overteching." :lol:

"Tech the tech" was pretty hilarious all on its own.
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makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2013, 10:53:12 AM »
OK, but you gotta love "the tech is overteching." :lol:

You got me there. It is hilarious.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

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Old timer here.  I loved the original series...saw it on NBC as a kid.  I also enjoyed TNG but I agree the first season was a little stilted.  Whoever came up the original picture at the top of this thread...... ought to be phasered. [tinfoil]
The original series movies were pretty decent (except for the one where they found God...or "a" god??) and the TNG movies were slightly less decent.
I did not like the original JJ Abrahms movie but this latest one I have to admit was well done.
I am a little cynical about "time travel" stories and "rewriting" Trek history .... and imploding the planet Vulcan p'd me off.
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Devonai

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2013, 11:21:20 AM »
It seems odd to me that the writers wouldn't have at least a modicum of knowledge of the technology with which they were working.  The writer's guide was pretty well fleshed out before the first episode even started filming, and it was quickly updated as Sternbach and Okuda decided on other details.  It was published over twenty years ago and it is pretty cool if you're a fan:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Next-Generation-Technical/dp/0671704273/

One could excuse that a team of writers concerned chiefly with character development wouldn't need to get into detail with the technology, but as a sci-fi writer myself, I really don't understand how you could entirely divorce yourself from it and still be the best person for the job.  I always imposed upon myself the requirement not just to understand my own technology, but to develop it as realistically as possible until I hit a conceptual wall and could go no further.  And while I pride myself on my technobabble, rarely is it 100% baloney - I do try to research ideas and present something that sounds plausible.

My girlfriend and I have been watching TNG on Netflix lately, and obviously I'm noticing more blatantly stupid technobabble than when I was a kid.  I also saw an entire scene of it last night.  Geordi was searching to see if a specific material, or any of its constituent elements, were present on the ship.  They devoted three or four minutes of airtime to him going back and forth with the computer down in engineering.  By the end of the scene, all they'd done was go through a long list of made-up crap with no solution.  Then, the next time we see Geordi, he explains what happened to Data in literally three seconds, obviating the need for the previous scene entirely.  It is exactly the kind of needless crap that my writing group and I try to avoid.  Anyway, I digress.
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HankB

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2013, 11:47:02 AM »
TOS has some episodes that were turkeys - for example, remember this scene?



Or the gangster episode



Or this one



Or this



And the time when Spock got the mating urge and went after Kirk . . .

DS9 had a lot of crappy episodes as well . . . but once the Dominion Wars began, they got better - I especially liked the episode when Sisko and the Cardassian "tailor" (a spy out of favor with the current regieme) engineered a many-layered plot to draw the Romulans in on the side of the Federation and Klingons. There was actually some plot, story, and character development here.

Most Voyager episodes stank.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 11:58:36 AM by HankB »
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MillCreek

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2013, 12:08:33 PM »
I think it is interesting that thus far, Star Trek: Enterprise has not even been mentioned.
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makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2013, 12:20:17 PM »
I think it is interesting that thus far, Star Trek: Enterprise has not even been mentioned.

It was the opposite of ST: TNG- a first season that looked promising and then slowly (or rapidly, depending on opinion) fell apart. I was horribly disappointed because I wanted to like it. That they seriously overused time travel is one of the many critiques I have of it.

I would put it above Voyager, though.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

gunsmith

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2013, 12:35:14 PM »
TNG was horribly politically correct.
Plus, I would have scrapped Data-how can you trust a machine that's always being hacked/taken over by hostiles?

I really liked the last ST movie, I hope to see the new one in the theaters b4 it goes away.
JJ Abrams is doing a great job and I really like the new crew. The actor portraying McCoy is practically channeling the original.
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AJ Dual

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2013, 12:36:30 PM »
The Inner Light makes up for a lot of the series sins IMO.
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K Frame

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2013, 12:54:57 PM »
Two favorite episodes from original Trek...

Shore Leave and Arena.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2013, 01:49:26 PM »
I'm by no means going to conventions dressed up as a Klingon, but I'm rather fond of ST as a whole*.

I agree, first season of TNG kind of sucks. Especially the first half or so where you can tell they really aren't meshing yet. But once it got in to the swing of things it got much better.

When I was younger, I could have cared less for DS9 and didn't like it. Something about being on the station instead of a ship gave it a different feel. But when I decided to go back through and rewatch it on Netflix I really liked it.

I liked Voyager out of the box. There were some moments, but overall I liked it.

I basically felt the same way about Enterprise as I did about DS9 originally. And again like DS9, I liked it when I went through and watched it on Netflix.

*I think I'm the only ST fan who just doesn't care for of TOS. I like some of TOS movies, but the series itself? Meh. Maybe it's just dated for my liking. Maybe some day I'll make myself watch and get in to the swing of it. But to this day, I just never developed a care for it.

I need to go play Star Trek Online now
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2013, 02:13:17 PM »
That's totally Zardoz, Fistful...     :O
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2013, 02:16:44 PM »
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