Author Topic: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror  (Read 6953 times)

makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »
I agree, first season of TNG kind of sucks. Especially the first half or so where you can tell they really aren't meshing yet. But once it got in to the swing of things it got much better.

At the time, I was heartbroken that they killed Tasha Yar off so fast. Looking back, I'm glad. Worf is far better in that position than she was. Maybe she'd have grown as the series progressed, but that loss seems to have been good, in retrospect.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

Perd Hapley

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2013, 03:33:56 PM »
That's totally Zardoz, Fistful...     :O

You'd think "let's avoid looking like Zardoz would be a firm objective of anyone making sci-fi for a TV audience. Right up there with "let's try not to be anything like Lexx."
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2013, 04:09:33 PM »
i watched he final episode of st enterprise last month on netflix and rekindled the rage from the impression that the entire series was summed up as a hollodeck lark of Riker trying to justify his life.
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makattak

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2013, 04:15:02 PM »
i watched he final episode of st enterprise last month on netflix and rekindled the rage from the impression that the entire series was summed up as a hollodeck lark of Riker trying to justify his life.

Wow, I just looked it up to find out why I never watched past the 2nd season (aside from getting annoyed with it) and discovered it was 10 years ago.
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

freakazoid

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2013, 05:07:13 PM »
I grew up with Voyager and really liked it.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2013, 05:25:20 PM »
"And the time when Spock got the mating urge and went after Kirk . . ."

Been reading fanfic again Hank?  ;)
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MechAg94

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2013, 05:52:20 PM »
TS:  Enterprise IMO suffered from the overuse of the Temporal Cold War crap and the whole Expanse story.  Parts of them weren't too bad, but many of them were not good.  I figured the writers like the big drawn out story lines because it is less work than coming up with new stories.  However, the shows are better when they stick with one or two hour story lines and drop the long stuff.  As an example, I really liked early XFiles shows that were one hour independent shows.  I got turned off when it turned into one season long alien plot.   
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lupinus

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2013, 06:13:29 PM »
At the time, I was heartbroken that they killed Tasha Yar off so fast. Looking back, I'm glad. Worf is far better in that position than she was. Maybe she'd have grown as the series progressed, but that loss seems to have been good, in retrospect.
Worf just brought more to the table, being Klingon and all. If you want to expand a character might as well do it with a different species.

i watched he final episode of st enterprise last month on netflix and rekindled the rage from the impression that the entire series was summed up as a hollodeck lark of Riker trying to justify his life.
That episode pissed me off too. I would have much rather they not squandered what will probably be one of the only chances to put to film the founding of the Federation. Had they not been canceled and gone long enough they could have captured the lead up better sure, but they couldn't devote an hour or two of the final season to the actual formation of the Federation? Who the hell thought it was a better idea to film Rikers wet holodeck dream of a random event on the way back to Earth to sign the charter and nothing more.

TS:  Enterprise IMO suffered from the overuse of the Temporal Cold War crap and the whole Expanse story.  Parts of them weren't too bad, but many of them were not good.  I figured the writers like the big drawn out story lines because it is less work than coming up with new stories.  However, the shows are better when they stick with one or two hour story lines and drop the long stuff.  As an example, I really liked early XFiles shows that were one hour independent shows.  I got turned off when it turned into one season long alien plot.   
I'm 50/50 on the story line thing. I think they did fine with the 2-3 episode long story arc, but I agree. The season long "let hunt aliens, and constantly be just behind them" thing got annoying. I was fine with the TCW part. Nothing wrong with an underlying thing that pops up every not and again throughout the series.
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Parker Dean

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2013, 07:03:08 PM »
As for TNG, it's my understanding that the first two seasons were the ones where Gene Roddenberry had the most control and is the biggest reason it's horrible dreck. Apparently he was always something of a utopian dreamer, at least as far as his storytelling was concerned, and by the mid-Eighties he was almost around the bend on the subject.Gene was forced aside, for the second time in ST history, between the second and third seasons and it's the third season where TNG begins to improve by leaps and bounds. Ironically, Gene's replacement, Berman, eventually became so risk-averse that he himself just about scuttled the entire franchise.

On tbe subject of writers not knowing anything, it seems the rules changed between TOS and TNG. TOS could have a stable of writers familiar with the show, while TNG had to open up for submissions from all union writers and tweak to suit.

eta: Oh, and Wesley was Gene's baby, so to speak. The prevailing theory is that Wesley was in effect Gene's avatar.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 07:06:49 PM by Parker Dean »

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2013, 07:05:17 PM »
Actually, I liked Lexx...  =)
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2013, 07:08:24 PM »
I don't like any Sar Trek aka Commies in Space, with the slight exception of TOS. And that's mostly because the visuals are so terrible and the acting so poor it's hilarious.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2013, 07:11:15 PM »
As a hardcore, die-hard, ultra loyalist  TNG fan, I can agree that some of the stories left a bit to be desired.
Things started to get amazing after Yar's  death.   Her death marked the end of TNG  trying to imitate TOS's  "feel."


It started to be less about stupid, planet based monsters,  and more about galactic events.

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2013, 07:16:51 PM »
As for TNG, it's my understanding that the first two seasons were the ones where Gene Roddenberry had the most control and is the biggest reason it's horrible dreck. Apparently he was always something of a utopian dreamer, at least as far as his storytelling was concerned, and by the mid-Eighties he was almost around the bend on the subject.Gene was forced aside, for the second time in ST history, between the second and third seasons and it's the third season where TNG begins to improve by leaps and bounds. Ironically, Gene's replacement, Berman, eventually became so risk-averse that he himself just about scuttled the entire franchise.

On tbe subject of writers not knowing anything, it seems the rules changed between TOS and TNG. TOS could have a stable of writers familiar with the show, while TNG had to open up for submissions from all union writers and tweak to suit.


TOS had some scifi greats writing scripts, Harlan Ellison being just one.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2013, 07:35:23 PM »
TOS has some episodes that were turkeys - for example, remember this scene?



Or the gangster episode



Or this one



Or this



And the time when Spock got the mating urge and went after Kirk . . .

DS9 had a lot of crappy episodes as well . . . but once the Dominion Wars began, they got better - I especially liked the episode when Sisko and the Cardassian "tailor" (a spy out of favor with the current regieme) engineered a many-layered plot to draw the Romulans in on the side of the Federation and Klingons. There was actually some plot, story, and character development here.

Most Voyager episodes stank.

 :mad:  "Shore Leave" and "Amok Time" were CLASSICS!

Some of what you mentioned were in the mediocre to good catagory.
For a REALLY BAD TOS episode, "SPOCK'S BRAIN."  That was dumb.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2013, 07:46:06 PM »
The reason for the idiotic Riker holodeck episode in Enterprise was because it was cancelled and they had to wrap it up quick

I was disappointed
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2013, 08:57:08 PM »
Arena... Effin' 'A', man.  The first 5-10 minutes were the best the series ever had.  Not to mention it supplied fodder for Galaxy Quest.  "Can you fashion some sort of rudimentary lathe?". ROFLMAO
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »
The first ST series I saw was TNG, which prompted me to track down and watch the original series. I liked both, but they're still the only two I've seen. Whatever came next, was it Voyager? I couldn't get into, but I was moving away from Sci-Fi at that point and getting more into historical fiction (reading, not on tv). Since our discussions here this past couple years, I've realized how much I miss Sci-Fi and have been reading and watching more of it. Have both TOS and TNG saved in my instant queue on Netflix to watch again. Also have never seen any of the movies (I know, I know, BAD!), so want to watch them in the near future too, or maybe after I've watched the series' again.

.... I figured the writers like the big drawn out story lines because it is less work than coming up with new stories.  However, the shows are better when they stick with one or two hour story lines and drop the long stuff.  As an example, I really liked early XFiles shows that were one hour independent shows.  I got turned off when it turned into one season long alien plot.   

I agree MechAg. It frustrates me when I miss a couple episodes and it takes me a couple more episodes to make sense of what's going on.  As a writer, I understand the need for both character development, series continuity, and keeping people hooked, to have a long storyline woven in. But like you, when that starts to take over every episode, I lose interest and move on to something else. (I lost interest in the X-Files at exactly that same point.) I like the episodes that can stand alone. If they're going to have a long complex story line, they better hit on key scenes to explain things at the opening.

But, again from a writer's standpoint, it's very difficult to create a "world" and people it with characters and NOT have it take on a life of it's own. Every story I've ever written goes on much longer than "the end" and has far more going on in the big picture than the reader actually sees because the imagination is limitless. This is also where prequels come from. Wherever a story begins on a page, the writer has to go back and imagine how the characters got to be right there at that exact time. Often this leads to entirely new stories and a "holy crap, I should have thought of this first!" moments.
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2013, 01:37:22 PM »
The reason for the idiotic Riker holodeck episode in Enterprise was because it was cancelled and they had to wrap it up quick

I was disappointed

Yea, that and the whole run of the series just felt like a re-bake of old ideas.  Klingons; semi-all powerful bad guys; heck even the Borg showed up for the party.  ;/

Of all the Trek series, DS9 is my favorite (even if it was a ripoff of someone elses better executed idea) mostly for the darker feel of the stories and the struggles that the characters went through.  For example Sisko's monolog at the end of 'In The Pale Moonlight'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-YyL7X4CWw

With the 20/20 vision of hindsight the first years of TNG are pretty bad, but remember this was the first NEW Star Trek series in 20 years and it was very exciting to visit that world again.
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HankB

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2013, 11:24:06 PM »
. . . Hank, you just don't "cut it" as a ''Trekker." ;)
THANK YOU! Now go straighten out your pointed ears, one of them is on a little crooked. And don't forget to sharpen your genuine Klingon dagger.   ;)

"And the time when Spock got the mating urge and went after Kirk . . ."

Been reading fanfic again Hank?  ;)
Well, it's technically an accurate description of the episode Amok Time . . .  ;)
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K Frame

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2013, 08:06:19 AM »
Saw one of the best of the TNG episodes last night on BBC America...

The Inner Light.
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Harold Tuttle

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2013, 10:43:45 AM »
"Do you want to know the truth about that whole Enterprise thing as the show was called? Rick Berman, executive producer of all things Star Trek, called Marina and myself and said 'we'd like you to do the last episode of Enterprise' ... They said it would be a Valentine to the fans, but all of it ended up doing I think was hurting Scott Bakula's feelings. He was such a gentleman about it and I said to Scott this is weird for me to be on your show and your show is being taken off before it should be taken off and he was such a gentleman about it and said "no, glad you're here" so it was awkward on all accounts, except with working with Marina again which is always lovely. But I wasn't crazy about it. And it was so thinly connected, I thought too. Thanks for bringing up such an unpleasant memory"
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Devonai

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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2013, 10:53:16 AM »
I have always liked Jonathan Frakes.  =D
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Re: ST:TNG, Season One - the horror
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 05:10:54 PM »
I'll just leave this here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVIGhYMwRgs
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That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.