Author Topic: "Fundamentalist" fear of science  (Read 8069 times)

CAnnoneer

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2007, 08:39:18 PM »
fistful, there is a simple litmus test of objectivity. Hehehehe...

Conduct the following mental exercise. Assuming you are given solid incontrovertible objective evidence that completely refutes everything you currently believe in (whatever that might be), will you be able to divest yourself of your beliefs and acknowledge the new reality (whatever that might be)? If yes, then you are an objective seeker of truth. If not, you have to ask yourself where your bias comes from and to what extent it affects your current beliefs.

Hehehe.

Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2007, 08:51:06 PM »
What are you up to, CAnny?  Playing a little game of "I'm more objective than you"?  Have fun.  I'm going to bed. 
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CAnnoneer

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2007, 08:55:17 PM »
Copping out, are we? As expected. Hehehe.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2007, 09:51:05 PM »
You realize of course that as "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen" and that belief in G-d is by definition a belief in the supernatural, that which cannot be proven or disproven by any natural science. 

There is no possible way to "objectively, definitively" disprove religious faith.

It's the perfect out, suck it atheists.  grin
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Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #54 on: January 19, 2007, 03:04:43 AM »
Copping out, are we? As expected. Hehehe.

So, you really think your little test is simple and objective?  I thought you were just joking.  If you like, I'll say that I would indeed change my mind.  See, I have proved that I am objective.   undecided
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CAnnoneer

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #55 on: January 19, 2007, 08:34:37 AM »
carebear, that is indeed the typical response I expect from true believers that ultimately are untouchable by logic. "There is NO CONFLICT". I must admit it was a trap. Apparently you have been thinking along those lines as well.

fistful, I am glad to hear you are amenable to evidence. But, that also means you are not a true believer. Hehehe.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #56 on: January 19, 2007, 09:28:10 AM »
CAnnoneer,

Lest you misunderstand, that's actually my position.  It's a logical fallacy to assume any physical data can prove or disprove a non-physical belief using the scientific method.

Faith and divinity is a far bigger thing than can be encompassed in something so small as a mere infinity of created time and space.

When you flip over to internal logic for Christianity, you start with the mandatory assumption that G-d is who He said He is and that, in fact, as created beings there are things we cannot understand about a raft of faith-based beliefs.  If you start saying "well this seems evil to me, so G-d isn't who He says He is", by definition you are no longer talking about the Christian G-d and might as well be talking about Superman.  It helps that I don't view the Bible as a "science text" or a strict "history".  That stuffs in there, but the Bible is all about the relationship between G-d and man, which has nothing to do with this world except in passing.

There's no conflict between science and my faith because I start with the presumption that my faith isn't dependent on this created, temporary world (all the important stuff will happen after I'm dead).  I enjoy studying science to better understand my "home for my lifetime" and figure if something doesn't seem to mesh there's a divine explanation I'll get soon enough.  For the present I can just take it at face value as the best explanation the human mind is capable of and leave it at that.  It has nothing to do with salvation or my relationship with the Creator of everything.
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"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Werewolf

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #57 on: January 19, 2007, 09:48:15 AM »
What is it they say about liberals and conservatives concerning hearts and brains?

To paraphrase:

If you're a creationist you don't have a brain and if an evolutionist you don't have a heart.

In a nutshell one group believes in a bunch of touchy feely crap and their primary information processor is their heart while the other group's primary information processor is it's brain.

Both primary processing methods have their advantages and disadvantages unfortunately a compromise between the two is unlikely as they are diametrically opposed.

Now that I've pissed off both sides of the current argument I think I'll grab a beer, slither into the nearest dark corner and hide for a while...  grin
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #58 on: January 19, 2007, 09:52:10 AM »
What is it they say about liberals and conservatives concerning hearts and brains?

To paraphrase:

If you're a creationist you don't have a brain and if an evolutionist you don't have a heart.

In a nutshell one group believes in a bunch of touchy feely crap and their primary information processor is their heart while the other group's primary information processor is it's brain.

Both primary processing methods have their advantages and disadvantages unfortunately a compromise between the two is unlikely as they are diametrically opposed.

Now that I've pissed off both sides of the current argument I think I'll grab a beer, slither into the nearest dark corner and hide for a while...  grin

Won't help.

You got both sides riled up and both sides believe in stakes and fire...  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

CAnnoneer

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #59 on: January 19, 2007, 11:06:03 AM »
Werewolf won't get any flak from me. It is a mostly correct 30,000 feet summary of the situation.

Fire and pitchforks come into play when the critics are emotionally or materially invested in the argument.

Matthew Carberry

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #60 on: January 19, 2007, 12:14:32 PM »
Good point, forgot the pitchforks.

There are proprieties to uphold.  grin
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Brad Johnson

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #61 on: January 19, 2007, 12:30:09 PM »

Good point, forgot the pitchforks.

There are proprieties to uphold.  grin

And the torches.  Don't forget the torches.

Brad
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Matthew Carberry

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #62 on: January 19, 2007, 12:36:16 PM »

Good point, forgot the pitchforks.

There are proprieties to uphold.  grin

And the torches.  Don't forget the torches.

Brad

Those go without saying.  You have to light the pyre with something.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Perd Hapley

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Re: "Fundamentalist" fear of science
« Reply #63 on: January 20, 2007, 03:56:33 AM »
fistful, I am glad to hear you are amenable to evidence. But, that also means you are not a true believer. Hehehe.

Sure I am - a true believer in what the evidence suggests.   smiley
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