9th Circuit: You have a right to own guns, but not to sell them

[Pb]

Case is based on zoning restrictions that ban gun stores.

http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2017/10/10/13-17132.pdf

Here's the insane ruling:
"The panel held that a textual and historical analysis of the Second Amendment demonstrated that the Constitution does not confer a freestanding right on
commercial proprietors to sell firearms."

Like saying you have a right to free press, but no right to sell a press to someone who wants to use it.  Insane.

Will the supreme court do anything?  Probably not.   

[RoadKingLarry]

Help us Obi Wan Kim Jong Un, you're our only hope.

[Perd Hapley]

I think it's more like saying you have a right to a free press, but no one is allowed to sell literature in your town.

[Fly320s]

I agree with the court.

This case was about zoning laws, not the 2nd Amendment.

[HeroHog]

NOW can we {REDACTED} the {REDACTED} bunch of {REDACTED}{REDACTED}{REDACTED}?!?!

[charby]

I agree with the court.

This case was about zoning laws, not the 2nd Amendment.

I was going to say the same thing.

[Pb]

I agree with the court.

This case was about zoning laws, not the 2nd Amendment.

Do you think it is constitutional for a city to ban selling a book within 500 feet of a residence?  What would the supreme court say?

[Pb]

Chicago tried to ban gun ranges in the city.  Their court didn't let them.

https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol125_ezell_v_chigaco.pdf

[Jim147]

There are still dry counties this long after prohibition ended.

[Hawkmoon]

I agree with the court.

This case was about zoning laws, not the 2nd Amendment.

That argument didn't work in Chicago. (BTR beat me to it.)

[Fly320s]

Chicago tried to ban gun ranges in the city.  Their court didn't let them.

https://harvardlawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/pdfs/vol125_ezell_v_chigaco.pdf

Chicago tried to ban gun stores in the entire city.  This case is about the county putting restrictions on where gun stores may open.  Different circumstances.

[Fly320s]

Do you think it is constitutional for a city to ban selling a book within 500 feet of a residence?  What would the supreme court say?

Yes, I do.  Zoning laws are typically viewed as reasonable by the courts.

The gun store case was not going to be won by saying the county infringed on the 2nd Amendment rights of the store owners or individual customers.  That was a bad tactic by the plaintiff.  They may have had a better chance by showing how restrictive the zoning law is and that the zoning law is unreasonable.

[Pb]

There are still dry counties this long after prohibition ended.

Drinking alcohol is not a right.

[Hawkmoon]

Chicago tried to ban gun stores in the entire city.  This case is about the county putting restrictions on where gun stores may open.  Different circumstances.

It depends of how the regulation is written. A few years ago, two towns near me set out to adopt strict zoning regulations that would have effectively meant no gun stores could open in town, because the criteria could not have been met at any location in town. In one of those two towns, the zoning attorney the town consulted told them to forget it because it would never stand up to a court challenge. The town dropped it, a gun store opened, and nobody died.

The other town passed it and, to date, nobody has had deep enough pockets to challenge it. That town's municipal counsel told them it was legal. He's the same municipal counsel who told them our state law doesn't allow the use of firearms for self defense. (Hint: he be wrong.)

[Ben]

Drinking alcohol is not a right.

Time to ban BTR. 

[charby]

Drinking alcohol is not a right.

Cities can zone where commercial businesses can be located, even certain types of commercial businesses. I used to live in a town where pawn shops and check cashing places could only be located in 2 areas in town. There was a group that tried to push them out of town, found out they couldn't so basically the existing businesses became the only areas zoned for pawn shops and check cashing/payday loans. Same thing happened in the late 70s with porn theatres, adult books stores and topless dancing in the same town.

Also about 5 years ago due to a argument in a neighborhood with neighbors, firearms based home businesses were banned. No more kitchen table FFLs in Ames, IA. I even went to several meetings arguing for why it was a bad idea, and if they agreed to make that zoning law then all home based businesses should be zoned out, no more in home childcare, garage sales, Avon, AmWay, etc.

Biggest concern they could come up with is FedEx would drop a firearm off at the door and kid would steal the box. I tried to explain to them that it doesn't work that way according to federal law.

Why did the neighbors get into a fight? Guy had a Traeger Grill home based business already and had 2 cars in the garage, 2 in the driveway and 4 on the streets, neighbors hated him because he took up too many parking spots on the street. So when he applied to add another home based business then neighbors threw everything they could at him and got home based FFL banned for the whole city.

[Scout26]

Chicago tried to ban gun stores in the entire city.  This case is about the county putting restrictions on where gun stores may open.  Different circumstances.

I think some folks here need to go read the Ezell cases.  Chicago first tried to ban all gun stores.  That got thrown out by the 5th Circuit.  Then Chicago re-wrote the zoning ordinances to make it impossible to have a gun store or range within the city limits.  That's when the 5th circuit threw out the ordinance and Judge Rovner wrote that the city "thumbed it's municipal nose at the Supreme Court" with a "too clever by half" ordinance that outlawed one of the prerequisites for owning a gun.

Ezell I

Ezell II

[MechAg94]

I might agree this isn't a 2nd amendment case, but I do not think the county should be able to zone out gun stores separately. 

[Pb]

If you read the link I posted at the top, you can see the man trying to open the store could not find a location that wasn't more than 500 feet from a house... they are using zoning to ban gun stores.

[Hawkmoon]

If you read the link I posted at the top, you can see the man trying to open the store could not find a location that wasn't more than 500 feet from a house... they are using zoning to ban gun stores.

And that's essentially what Ezell was about.

And that's what the two towns in my state wanted to do (and one did). They didn't just set aside a commercial zone for stores that sell things (that already existed in both towns), they established special restrictions on stores that sell firearms and ammunition. And they made very careful provisions to ensure that no location in the commercial zone could possibly comply -- such as distance from a residence, and a few others. They don't have such restrictions on stores selling booze, stores selling fertilizer and (potentially) diesel fuel, stores selling propane tanks, stores selling knives, or stores selling chain saws and axes ... only on stores selling firearms and ammunition. That's discriminatory.

[MechAg94]

Techanically the town I live in has a restriction on home FFL's.  The ordnance specifically allows only named home businesses (FFL not one of them).  I recall the issue coming up at a gun club meeting.  Apparently the ATF was asking FFL renewers to show explicit permission to operate from their local govt entity.  The guy who had the FFL had it expire and nothing was resolved as far as I know.

But at the same time, there was a gun shop in town as well as pawn shops that sell guns.  So it wasn't the same issue as the OP.

[Scout26]

Techanically the town I live in has a restriction on home FFL's.  The ordnance specifically allows only named home businesses (FFL not one of them).  I recall the issue coming up at a gun club meeting.  Apparently the ATF was asking FFL renewers to show explicit permission to operate from their local govt entity.  The guy who had the FFL had it expire and nothing was resolved as far as I know.

But at the same time, there was a gun shop in town as well as pawn shops that sell guns.  So it wasn't the same issue as the OP.

Yep, that was back in the 90's when Clinton had the ATF go after all the kitchen table FFL's.

[MechAg94]

Yep, that was back in the 90's when Clinton had the ATF go after all the kitchen table FFL's.

No, this was only several years ago.  I am not sure of the exact year, but definitely within the last 10. 

[MillCreek]

Yep, that was back in the 90's when Clinton had the ATF go after all the kitchen table FFL's.

I do recall that, since I was a kitchen table FFL back then.  The approval requirement from local LE and increasing the annual fee from $ 30 to $300 caused me to let the FFL lapse.

[Blakenzy]

80 perchentò